Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

to TC/GC:
Convey more positive images of the other community.
It is difficult to share a small geographical area with someone you
don’t like, respect, or consider as your equal, and it is especially
difficult if the other is considered your enemy. Both Greek Cypriots
and Turkish Cypriots tend to paint a negative image of each other.
The general Turkish-Cypriot description of Greek Cypriots is
especially harsh, often portraying the Greek Cypriots as suppressors
and murderers. Although there is acknowledgment of the ‘good
Greek Cypriots,' the all-too-common image is one of extremists
intent on exterminating the Turkish Cypriots.
At first glance it might seem that the Greek Cypriots are less
negative in their portrayals of the Turkish Cypriots, especially given
the often-heard references to the kindness of Turkish-Cypriot
neighbours and their affection for certain individuals. However, it
becomes clear upon closer examination that the Turkish Cypriots are
not viewed with respect or equality. Such images of the other do not
make it easy to enter into productive negotiations about issues that
divide communities.
Through participation in structured bi-communal discussion
groups, it is possible to encounter members of the other community
as fellow human beings rather than as objects of hatred or contempt.
Turkish Cypriots might learn that their neighbours on the other side
of the Buffer Zone are usually well-intentioned, even though they
make mistakes. Greek Cypriots might come to accept Turkish
Cypriots as equals – intellectually, socially, and culturally. Both sides
can do away with the extreme images that have been promoted in
their media and educational system, adopting a more realistic picture
of the other community. Hopefully, they will realize that a wide
variety of views and intentions exist in both communities, and that
the stereotypes and prejudices that have dominated thinking about
the other are both counterproductive and dangerous.

[halil]

Create Shared Empathy.
Empathy, we are told, is something that helps us understand others.
We have been taught to ‘empathize with' the situation of friends
going through difficult times or who face a tough road ahead. We
learn that we should ‘put ourselves in his/her place' in order to
understand how the other feels. Certainly these are laudable actions,
and they can promote positive human relationships. However, in a
conflict such as the one in Cyprus, these acts rarely happen. One
might argue that empathy is impossible in this case. How do you
‘empathize' with people who have caused you so much pain and
suffering? How is it possible to ‘put yourself in the other’s place' if
you have no contact with them? Clearly, a situation such as Cyprus
demands more than our simplistic notions of empathy can provide.
But is it an irrelevant concept?
Fortunately, there is another way to view empathy1. Instead of
treating it as something one has for another or does to another, it can
be considered something that individuals create together. In this way,
the focus shifts from the individual to the relationship. The question
is no longer one of seeing the world through another’s eyes. Rather,
the task is one of creating mutual understanding, which is usually
something different than either party holds alone. In this way, my
own truth is not threatened, and although I might change the way I
see things, we make efforts to construct a truth that we both can
share. Such an outcome forms the basis for a solid working
relationship. There is no magic way to create shared empathy, but
steps like those outlined in the following sections can go a long way
toward this goal.

see u later.........

[EPSILON]

I never quoted that the Cyprus problem started in 1974. Repeatedly I said that the problem started in 1956 when British employed TCs as their policemen against EOKA.

Playing the devils advocate I could easily reply that the TC's joined the British because of the 1950 GC Church referendum in favor of union with Greece and then someone else will come along and counter that by bringing up the 1923 agreements (treaty) as an example etc.

The bottom line is that there are many dates that suit each side to call it the "beginning of the problem" so none can possibly be valid but nobody can deny the ABSOLUTE beginning being none other than 1571 and I don't care how far back that goes as long as it's the truth.

So what is it that happened in 1571, that caused the GCs and TCs kill each other? What happened during 350 yeras of Ottoman occupation that would have turned the GCs against TCs and vice versa - can you give us some examples please?

You are completelly wrong my friend! You have to look at the historical developements within the context of causing the inter-communal fighting and killings, which undeniably turned TCs and GCs against each other. As far as my knowledge of history serves me, that was no other than the events of 1950s, closely followed by the events of 1963, 1967, and finally 1974.

Never mind being devil's advocate but we both know you are absolutely right about the TCs resistance to EOKA during 1950s. What did Turkey do during 1960 to 1963 to destroy Cyprus, can you please elaborate on that? And I'll tell you the true version of what exactly happened!

What did Turkey due between 1963 and 1974 to destroy GCs or their dominance on the island (except to attack them on one occasion as a response to attcaking Turkish villages & civilians)? Please quote me something from an international source and I'll agree with you.

There is no relevance of any other part of Cyprus history to the hatred created between GCs and TCs, because until 1950s GCs and TCs lived together in peace with many mixed marriages, sharing a rich culture that was a mixture of many over thousands of years. If you are not aware, I can even provide you with the details of TCs and GCs uprising together against Ottoman taxation! Endaksi re gumbaro?

I feel that you are still out of the subject - My point was not when and by whom the problem started .In by post I am trying to critisise the GCS methods and tactics in their negotiations for a solution- I feel that GCs should mostly responded to my post than TCs or Mainland Turks

What I am saying here is that GCs made a big mistake to consider negotiation with TCs on the basis Turkish forces and Generals have the authority to enforce a solution on Turkish side.

If GCs were stuck on the fact that the main problem for them is a foreign army invasion/occupation the UN/EU and generally the int community would have little to reject.

I repeat what I am trying to present here a defend/negotiation line for GCs side and not who is guildy or not

[Get Real!]

BigOz...

So what is it that happened in 1571, that caused the GCs and TCs kill each other? What happened during 350 yeras of Ottoman occupation that would have turned the GCs against TCs and vice versa - can you give us some examples please?

For some 307 years (1571..1878) GC’s lived under the thumb of Ottomans/Turks that’s why you correctly used the noun “occupation” to describe the situation because that’s exactly what it was. A popular online dictionary describes the word “occupation” as “Invasion, conquest, and control of a nation or territory by foreign armed forces”.
Do I still need to explain why GC’s and TC’s had a bad start for nearly 400 years given that the latter are the remnants of this occupying force?

You are completelly wrong my friend! You have to look at the historical developements within the context of causing the inter-communal fighting and killings, which undeniably turned TCs and GCs against each other. As far as my knowledge of history serves me, that was no other than the events of 1950s, closely followed by the events of 1963, 1967, and finally 1974.

You are missing a lot of important detail prior to 1950. From 1878 onwards the GC community began to turn their Ottoman/Turkish bondage around and reached 180 degrees in 1923 when Britain attained the island for reasons I’m sure you know, and for the first time Britain openly starts to show animosity towards TC’s that are still leaning towards Turkey and refusing to adjust to their new ways. This can be clearly seen in Treaty of Lausanne, articles 20 and 21 which I won’t get into right now but have done a post on this in the past for more info.

At this stage I should mention that EOKA was first officially formed in 1922 and initially called the “National Assembly” or “National Organization” and its first president was the Archbishop of Cyprus Kyrillos III (1916...1933).

The National Assembly called for union with Greece and disobedience towards British rule in ever increasing ways right up to the disturbances/riots of October 1931 which were pivotal in Cyprus history. Throughout these years the TC community countered GC requests for union with Greece with requests for Britain to stay. This sort of tit for tat between the communities continued right up to the formation of their corresponding “armies” (EOKA/TMT) in the early fifties.

BigOz, you’ve asked me a lot of questions and I’ll only answer up to this point because I’m tired. Anyway, the bottom line is that TC’s and GC’s never really had peace as you, and many others I’ve noticed seem to think, quite simply because of their opposing directions for their future.

Regards, GR.

[BirKibrisli]

Please everyone,consider this...
Had 1571 never happened non of us,all GCs and TCs,would be here now...
We owe our very existence (as GR,bigOz,Mrfromng,Epsilon etc) to the Ottoman invasion of 1571...Now shouldn't we all be eternally grateful...

[BirKibrisli]

Create Shared Empathy.
Empathy, we are told, is something that helps us understand others.
We have been taught to ‘empathize with' the situation of friends
going through difficult times or who face a tough road ahead. We
learn that we should ‘put ourselves in his/her place' in order to
understand how the other feels. Certainly these are laudable actions,
and they can promote positive human relationships. However, in a
conflict such as the one in Cyprus, these acts rarely happen. One
might argue that empathy is impossible in this case. How do you
‘empathize' with people who have caused you so much pain and
suffering? How is it possible to ‘put yourself in the other’s place' if
you have no contact with them? Clearly, a situation such as Cyprus
demands more than our simplistic notions of empathy can provide.
But is it an irrelevant concept?
Fortunately, there is another way to view empathy1. Instead of
treating it as something one has for another or does to another, it can
be considered something that individuals create together. In this way,
the focus shifts from the individual to the relationship. The question
is no longer one of seeing the world through another’s eyes. Rather,
the task is one of creating mutual understanding, which is usually
something different than either party holds alone. In this way, my
own truth is not threatened, and although I might change the way I
see things, we make efforts to construct a truth that we both can
share. Such an outcome forms the basis for a solid working
relationship. There is no magic way to create shared empathy, but
steps like those outlined in the following sections can go a long way
toward this goal.

see u later.........

I am all for empathy,dear Halil,as I believe it is the one ingredient we cannot do without if a just and lasting solution is to be found...Empathy is
much more then seeing the world with different eyes though...Empathy is putting all your existential fears aside and stepping into somebody elses mind and body...empathy is becoming the person you are empathising with,for a little while at least...That is why a lot of people find it very difficult...They are afraid to let go of their egos in case they won't be able to get them back...

[Get Real!]

Please everyone,consider this...
Had 1571 never happened non of us,all GCs and TCs,would be here now...
We owe our very existence (as GR,bigOz,Mrfromng,Epsilon etc) to the Ottoman invasion of 1571...Now shouldn't we all be eternally grateful...

That's right so you would've never met VP!!!

[bigOz]

GR! Thanks for your long and winded post regarding what I asked, but you still failed to answer the vital question and I do not wish to go into the same arguments about who settled in Cyprus when and whose divine right it is to claim it as their own - clearly we are going in circles like a cat chasing her tail!

The important question I wish to reiterate is:
DID TCs AND GCs ACTIVELY ATTACKED OR KILLED EACH OTHER DURING OTTOMAN, AND/OR ANY OTHER EMPIRE'S OCCUPATION DURING CYPRUS' LONG HISTORY, UNTIL THE 1950s ???

Answer me that, and you'll see why the 50s are so relevant to subsequent conflicts on the island.

AND if you looked more carefully into history, you would know exactly why the TCs would have wished a British rule than a Greek one! You are talking about a time soon after Turkish independence war, when the mainland Greeks and Turks had great animosity against each other, as a result of Greek occupation of Western Turkey, especially along the Aegean coast, and their subsequent hasty withdrawal leaving behind burning towns and villages with many dead! They had just come out of a war as great enemies - were the TCs expected to accept Greece as their ruler / protector? That is why there was a mass exodus of Turks from Cyprus to Southern Turkey at the time. If you were a TC at the time would you have believed it was safe to accept such a proposition?

[cypezokyli]

The important question I wish to reiterate is:
DID TCs AND GCs ACTIVELY ATTACKED OR KILLED EACH OTHER DURING OTTOMAN, AND/OR ANY OTHER EMPIRE'S OCCUPATION DURING CYPRUS' LONG HISTORY, UNTIL THE 1950s ???

ofcource they did!!!!

but they had times they also cooperted. these ones we tend to forget...

[bigOz]

The important question I wish to reiterate is:
DID TCs AND GCs ACTIVELY ATTACKED OR KILLED EACH OTHER DURING OTTOMAN, AND/OR ANY OTHER EMPIRE'S OCCUPATION DURING CYPRUS' LONG HISTORY, UNTIL THE 1950s ???

ofcource they did!!!!

but they had times they also cooperted. these ones we tend to forget...

When and where did they attack and kill each other in Cyprus before the 1950s???