Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

I have only just joined the Cyprus Forum, and on wise advice I have been observing it for a couple of days before expressing an opinion. I shall be writing on this forum and identifying how I see myself as a citizen and a human both of which are germaine to the views I hold and to the issues for which this forum was created. However this is a quick reply to the exchanges above, which seem to be typical of many such exchanges.
On first impression I am deeply saddened by the partisanship, the bitterness, the lack of ability to "walk in another's shoes" and the strident attacks that seem to appear from time to time. I am 61 in about 10 days and I have observed "The Cyprus Problem" (from the UK where I was born) since there was just one BBC TV channel which was thought to be free and non-partisan by the British people at the time. Having been recently dragged kicking and screaming into the Iraq war by a government that shames the terms socialism, democracy and accountability a large minority, perhaps even a small majority of the British people are no longer so naive.
I have seen the decay of British Imperialism and Colonialism, the differing accounts of various important events by the BBC then as opposed to the accounts of family members and other direct connections who reported events much more directly. I have been aware since being myself of a single figure age that the media do not always know, let alone tell the truth, and of course the truth-index varies according to who is doing what to whom, how much the government or other interests (such as multinational corporations) have influence within the particular newspaper or TV newsrooms, the political complexions and agendas of the owners of those media etc.
To witness the results of propaganda and prejudice rather than reason, heart, humanity and a desire for universal happiness has saddened me as I ripen into the best years of my life. My only enemies are dominance, hatred, ignorance, greed, misinformation and manipulation, not people.
Therefore I ask all those who participate in this forum, the purpose for which must be dialogue rather than diatribe by its very existance, to consider the analogy of a neo-imperialist USA government and the terrible havoc they are wreaking in the world, whose people no longer support them (by 70%) over, for example, Iraq, an analogy which I am daring to draw in relation to how Cyprus has been continually let down by US and UK dominated politics, before so-called independence, during the years before 1974 and since the events of that and subsequent years. My father lived in a village that was part Greek in culture, population and institutions and part Turkish. There was a Mosque and a Church. The Doctor was Greek, the Policeman Turkish. And nobody gave a damn. Everybody gossipped at the fountain and both Greek-and-Turkish Cypriots played Tavli in the Kafenio (backgammon in the Caf).
Please let us stop squabbling amongst ourselves (as many of us who live in the UK, especially North London, do not) and remember that it was big country politics that destroyed the integrity of Cyprus, not the people, whatever their ethnic origin.
If you have prejudices, get over them and grow up. We are all the same species, whatever you believe. It happens to be my belief that the future DOES belong to the people of the world, not the multi-nationals, politicians and manipulators. They are all crooks. Politics MEANS deception and prevarication, propaganda and manipulation. But people can, with a will to be the best they can be for themselves and their own self-responsibility, and for the future of their offspring, agree to overcome any obstacles to living harmoniously with each other. Such an attitude simplifies everything, and the prophets of both sides have taught the same thing, whether you follow them or not.
I may no doubt be attacked as an idealist and a fool. If this is so I am happy to have lived so far in that condition and will be happy to die even further along the path of self-realisation that has supported my so-called idealism/foolishness all these years.

Welcome to the forum friend and fellow human. I hope you will post for a long time to come and happy birthday in ten days time.

Your idealism is admirable even if impractical and long may you live within your inner peace, but outer peace seems to be much harder to attain.

[edu500ac]

Hi, TCs friends. Somebody told that I was 99% wrong in my assumptions. It seems that I was 100% wrong. I read about the Cyprus problem from different sources since my last posting. Here is a summary of my readings:

1-- 99.5% of the countries of the world do not recognize the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Since there are 191 countries in the world, only one country recognize the Turkish Republic of Nothern Cyprus.

2-- The northern part of the country was occupied by Turkey. The Turkish government arranged an influx of settlers from Turkey whose number is believed to be in the range of over 100,000, thus altering the demographics of the island against the rules of the Geneva Convention. This characterize war crime.

3-- Cyprus was a British colony until 1960. The colonial land registry recognizes that TC owned slightly less than 15% of the privately owned land. However, Turkey occupied more than twice that amount.

4-- Turkish Cypriots proclaimed a separate state, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC), on November 15, 1983. The UN Security Council, in its Resolution 541 of November 18, 1983, declared the action legally invalid and called for a withdrawal of Turkish troops. Turkey disobeyed the resolution.

In any case, I think that I am right in one point. I believe that TCs must accept the law, and the language of Cyprus, and the principle of one man/one vote. Settlers must be sent back to Turkey, because this is the law of the civilized world. Land, houses and properties that belong to the GCs must be returned to their legitimate owners. Of course, according to my readings, a number of TCs were displaced too; they must receive proper compensation, of course; the international community believe that this should be done according to the colonial land registry.

I would like to point out to the TCs that it is not the GCs that accept the facts as I described them. It is almost every country in the world, together with the United Nations. In any case, if occupation ends, and the settlers are repatriated, I am sure that the TCs will receive a warm wellcome to the Cypriot society, to the EU, and to the international community.

[zan]

Hi, TCs friends. Somebody told that I was 99% wrong in my assumptions. It seems that I was 100% wrong. I read about the Cyprus problem from different sources since my last posting. Here is a summary of my readings:

1-- 99.5% of the countries of the world do not recognize the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Since there are 191 countries in the world, only one country recognize the Turkish Republic of Nothern Cyprus.

2-- The northern part of the country was occupied by Turkey. The Turkish government arranged an influx of settlers from Turkey whose number is believed to be in the range of over 100,000, thus altering the demographics of the island against the rules of the Geneva Convention. This characterize war crime.

3-- Cyprus was a British colony until 1960. The colonial land registry recognizes that TC owned slightly less than 15% of the privately owned land. However, Turkey occupied more than twice that amount.

4-- Turkish Cypriots proclaimed a separate state, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC), on November 15, 1983. The UN Security Council, in its Resolution 541 of November 18, 1983, declared the action legally invalid and called for a withdrawal of Turkish troops. Turkey disobeyed the resolution.

In any case, I think that I am right in one point. I believe that TCs must accept the law, and the language of Cyprus, and the principle of one man/one vote. Settlers must be sent back to Turkey, because this is the law of the civilized world. Land, houses and properties that belong to the GCs must be returned to their legitimate owners. Of course, according to my readings, a number of TCs were displaced too; they must receive proper compensation, of course; the international community believe that this should be done according to the colonial land registry.

I would like to point out to the TCs that it is not the GCs that accept the facts as I described them. It is almost every country in the world, together with the United Nations. In any case, if occupation ends, and the settlers are repatriated, I am sure that the TCs will receive a warm wellcome to the Cypriot society, to the EU, and to the international community.

Keep reading and you will come to more conclusions I am sure. As you are having such a good time educating yourself I will not try to correct you just yet but please do us a favour and not commit anything to writting until you have done a full and extensive research on the subject. You are getting me far too exited about what is going to happen at the end of your story.

[Bohemiantriumph]

Thank you gentlemen. It is good to feel welcome. I will try to make some contribution that may have some value. I feel indebted to my uncle who died recently but had been working for years to try to see some kind of solution.
However some of my comments may seem unconventional,which it was wht I was so careful in introducingmyself to hold my highest values in mind and heart. It is so easy to find cynicism and chaos on the internet.
Good night.

[Pyrpolizer]

@edu500,
Excellent man. You jumped up from almost 0% to almost 100%. Well done. You are no ready for the battlefield.

@Bohemian..
Welcome my friend. Your views are very correct. But they kill debate, actually there is nothing to argue about them. Forums thrive on disagreement.

[Bohemiantriumph]

Thsi forum is about stimulating debate and dialogue towards agreement, not towards disagreement. If my views are very correct and there is no arguing with them, as you say, then surely they are a palce to start a thread about agreement. This is not entertainement, this is not Big Brother, this is not a place to score some kind of points.
If the debate on Cyprus ended because an agreement that was both honourable and amicable to the people of all of Cyprus were reached then true, the thread of "The Cyprus Problem" would be dead. This would be a good thing, and the forum might very well contribute to such a thing, thus causing its own demise.
When something has served its purpose, then it has no further use, and i am sure the originators of this forum would be very content. There is plenty more to talk about, anyway, other than conflict. Culturally, artistically, musically, theatrically, and there are always probelems to be ironed out.
Would you have the conflict continue just to have a debating society?

[Viewpoint]

Hi, TCs friends. Somebody told that I was 99% wrong in my assumptions. It seems that I was 100% wrong. I read about the Cyprus problem from different sources since my last posting. Here is a summary of my readings:

1-- 99.5% of the countries of the world do not recognize the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Since there are 191 countries in the world, only one country recognize the Turkish Republic of Nothern Cyprus.

2-- The northern part of the country was occupied by Turkey. The Turkish government arranged an influx of settlers from Turkey whose number is believed to be in the range of over 100,000, thus altering the demographics of the island against the rules of the Geneva Convention. This characterize war crime.

3-- Cyprus was a British colony until 1960. The colonial land registry recognizes that TC owned slightly less than 15% of the privately owned land. However, Turkey occupied more than twice that amount.

4-- Turkish Cypriots proclaimed a separate state, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC), on November 15, 1983. The UN Security Council, in its Resolution 541 of November 18, 1983, declared the action legally invalid and called for a withdrawal of Turkish troops. Turkey disobeyed the resolution.

In any case, I think that I am right in one point. I believe that TCs must accept the law, and the language of Cyprus, and the principle of one man/one vote. Settlers must be sent back to Turkey, because this is the law of the civilized world. Land, houses and properties that belong to the GCs must be returned to their legitimate owners. Of course, according to my readings, a number of TCs were displaced too; they must receive proper compensation, of course; the international community believe that this should be done according to the colonial land registry.

I would like to point out to the TCs that it is not the GCs that accept the facts as I described them. It is almost every country in the world, together with the United Nations. In any case, if occupation ends, and the settlers are repatriated, I am sure that the TCs will receive a warm wellcome to the Cypriot society, to the EU, and to the international community.

Then you will have no problem solving the problem with these other countries....good luck.

[Kikapu]

Then you will have no problem solving the problem with these other countries....good luck.

What is there for the RoC to solve with the others.?

It is the "TRNC" that needs to solve her problems with others, if she won't solve her problems with the RoC.!!

Is it not the "TRNC" that is seeking Direct Trade and Recognition from others.??

[zan]

Then you will have no problem solving the problem with these other countries....good luck.

What is there for the RoC to solve with the others.?

It is the "TRNC" that needs to solve her problems with others, if she won't solve her problems with the RoC.!!

Is it not the "TRNC" that is seeking Direct Trade and Recognition from others.??

I think what VP is saying is that the problem is between the "RoC" and the TRNC/KKTC so quoting the other countries makes no difference...

[Bohemiantriumph]

Hi Guys. I am going to be very frank. I feel a responsibility, partly cataysed by the death of an uncle at 94 who worked hard in this country to see a resolution in Cyprus, to make up for ignoring the problem because I was born in the UK, because I have kept myself fairly separate from Cypriot culture of any kind, including family, and because I cannot bear to see what has been done in the only part of Cyprus I really know, the areas North of Famagusta.
I have been used to being discriminated against all my life for various reasons, including that of being from Cyprus, my sexuality and my unconventional charisma.
I do have some thoughts about solutions which are rather radical, and I have tested them on others, but not on anyone who lives in Cyprus. Sometimes the answer can better be seen from afar.
That is why I have been so careful to sidle up to this problem with tact and diplomacy - not with duplicity, although that mostly goes with the former qualities when politicians are involved.
The biggest problems this world faces are the creation of polititicians. They love debate and disagreement, like a solicitor loves divorces. They make a "killing" from it, both metaphorically (£$EU etc) and literally, but sadly for their sanity their biggest buzz is to leave some kind of "legacy" by which they can be remembered. If the currency of their legacy is worthless, fools gold, it doesn't matter to them. they are not sane. Today Britain has said goodbye to another nutter, Tony Blair, who was influential and charismatic, but left as much damage as that other mad bat who preceded him, Lady Thatcher (I am ignoring the wimps in between as they just produced more of the same). The insanity is they have given him the job of the "Peacemeaker" of the Middle East. The man who sold his virginity to the Bush administration over Iraq and lied to the media, the people, government, opposition and probably even himself. He even had the cheek and hypocrisy to get photographed with the Pope a couple of days ago.
Everyone is talking to me about "well all those other countries... sort them out" or "if you can sort all that out then go ahead with this" like boys playing a game.
No. I am beginning with the bald truth. Fact number one. Foundation of the problem, or rather should I say the flaw, the bloody great crack in the Foundations of The Republic of Cyprus from day one.
It has never been a republic. How could it be with conditions like British bases, which I understand they are no longer even paying for.
So you want dialogue and a bit of fire? OK. This is my first foundational pile-driver: we need to work towards removing the British and American bombers who use Cyprus as a battleship. They caused the problem, they even engineered parts of it, but the first sticth-up was the Zurich agreement.
I am not naive enough to think we can just ask them to leave. But I believe we have to see it as a step to work towards, and to use such organisations as the UN and maybe teach THEM a thing or two, for they are currently ineffectual. Especially after the Annan fiasco, and yes, I did read it.
The problems are probably immense. I do not even know what some of them will be. I know security would be a temporary problem, but I believe fear and prejudice are the greater ones. As a British citizen born from a father and uncles and aunt and grandparents who lived in harmonious symbiosis in a mixed village, even with a half Greek and Half Turkish name (the village, that is) with a Greek doctor and a Turkish policeman, a mosque and an orthodox church, with everyone taking water from the same well, playing the same games, drinking the same coffee and eating the same crystallised fruits etc., I understand the meaning of divide and rule.
If you want to blame someone, blame the UK, puppet of the USA, first instead of falling into their well-laid traps, historical or no. They have never helped us. They have only interfered. Can we agree on that?