Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Accusations and more accusations lead only to vicious circles .All Cypriots suffered and many are still suffering today. The division of our island will one day lead into more conflict unless we let bygones be bygones and look for reasons why we should be united and not contradictory events that support the continued division. There are many Cyprios who harbour not an iota of hatred for their fellow Cypriots , amongst them Bir , Kikapu , Pashias , Ahmet Alexis and many more . Constant apportioning of blame only serves the interests of the partitionists , threads such as this started by the numero uno partitionists , the VPs only have one purpose , not to debate but to inflame passions . Tell the 100 thousand or the 120 thousand or the 160 or whatever the correct figure is that they out of order claiming that only 160 thousand became refugees so just forget it. This department run by VP is dedicated to the continued division of our island , he came to London to enlist the other partitionist VP , on joining the department suddenly his views became harder and he begun , for the first time using the standard inverted commas when referring to the ROC. Notice how he throws insults and then ignores the challenge. The man is a divisionist just as the author of this thread. Divide and rule as they say.

[Murataga]

Approximately 200.000 refugees + 6000 dead among GCs is a lie, period.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/conseque ... senate.htm

How does that change the fact that it is a lie? Do you believe that these figures are correct? If so, please write here that you do and that you mean it. I`d like to see you do it.

[Jerry]

All this mudslinging gets us nowhere. Both sides have suffered at the hands of the other and at different times. The security and rights of the Cypriots could be guaranteed by the EU to the extent that that body supervises the police and judiciary, it would probably happen anyway as the EU becomes more integrated.

One of the biggest problems is one of perception. Both side see the other as having the upper hand, both sides see themselves as victims. Putting it simply, in territorial terms Turkey has the upper hand whereas in legal and economic terms the Greek Cypriots are seen as having the advantage. There can be no doubt that Turkey is of vital importance to the world's only super power. The US is determined that Turkey remains secular, she is scared about the consequences for Israel should the Islamists take control in Turkey and to that end the US wants to see Turkey in the EU. Aware of her importance Turkey will eventually agree to a solution that suits her, not the Cypriots.

With regard to refugee numbers I think the different figures quoted for refugees can partly be explained by the fact that a significant proportion of the 200,000 owned property in the north but were not resident there. My father and two of his brothers built holiday/retirement homes in the 60s and early 70s. They all lost their properties but they could not be called refugees.

[humanist]

I am thankful that murataga, zan & fronmg are not representatives of most turkish cypriots otherwise I would stoop to the lowest level of being and say something hurtful back. My uncle is gone and no matter what I say in response to their joke, he will not come back, I continue to pray for a unified Cyprus and may God never give me the unfortunate opportunity of ever coming within their presence.

[bigOz]

All this mudslinging gets us nowhere. Both sides have suffered at the hands of the other and at different times. The security and rights of the Cypriots could be guaranteed by the EU to the extent that that body supervises the police and judiciary, it would probably happen anyway as the EU becomes more integrated.

One of the biggest problems is one of perception. Both side see the other as having the upper hand, both sides see themselves as victims. Putting it simply, in territorial terms Turkey has the upper hand whereas in legal and economic terms the Greek Cypriots are seen as having the advantage. There can be no doubt that Turkey is of vital importance to the world's only super power. The US is determined that Turkey remains secular, she is scared about the consequences for Israel should the Islamists take control in Turkey and to that end the US wants to see Turkey in the EU. Aware of her importance Turkey will eventually agree to a solution that suits her, not the Cypriots.

With regard to refugee numbers I think the different figures quoted for refugees can partly be explained by the fact that a significant proportion of the 200,000 owned property in the north but were not resident there. My father and two of his brothers built holiday/retirement homes in the 60s and early 70s. They all lost their properties but they could not be called refugees.

Well put Jerry!

Most of th earguments here stem from misperception and mistrust, which is typical of many of today's inhabitants on the island. As much as all TCs will agree that the ideal solution would be for Cypriots to live together as one nation, and would vote to support that, there is a strong sense of mistrust and insecurity because of what had happened in the past.

What some of our fellow GCs refusing to understand is the fact that "trust" cannot be dictated but earned! Meanwhile, The other side who is supposedly trying to gain your trust is constantly denying and lying about the true events of the past and pretending to be the victims and sufferers when in reality the only sufferers have been the TCs for the past 44 years - not GCs, not Greece, not Turkiye! All of these three had benefited from the Cyprus problem one way or another.

TCs are all aware of everything GC leaders do in the international arena. When they see that the main source of all the economic hardships TCs are facing (because of their persistence in denying them to travel directly to their homes from abroad, trade directly with the rest of the world etc) and make flawed allegations to make the victim look like the persecutor - the trust goes out of the window!

Perhaps now you can see why myself and many others TCs in this forum are trying to get the other side to accept the wrongs of the past, and show some sign of recognising TCs as fellow Cypriot citizens by not blocking their trade or travel. THAT will earn them the trust in good time and bring the members of the island together.

As it stands, TCs are well aware that with the "deny and lie" mentality, the events of the past are more than likely to repeat themselves at the first opportune moment! Contrary to what another TC participant once suggested, Turkey will not be able to intervene ever again to protect the TCs, once it pulls out of the island, because Cyprus is now an EU country - and we all know from past experience how good (?) the EU or U.N. is if it came to that! We saw it in Bosnia not so long ago. If it weren't for NATO forces taking action ethnic cleansing would have carried on forever with the rest of Christian Europe effectively doing nothing...

[Viewpoint]

Accusations and more accusations lead only to vicious circles .All Cypriots suffered and many are still suffering today. The division of our island will one day lead into more conflict unless we let bygones be bygones and look for reasons why we should be united and not contradictory events that support the continued division. There are many Cyprios who harbour not an iota of hatred for their fellow Cypriots , amongst them Bir , Kikapu , Pashias , Ahmet Alexis and many more . Constant apportioning of blame only serves the interests of the partitionists , threads such as this started by the numero uno partitionists , the VPs only have one purpose , not to debate but to inflame passions . Tell the 100 thousand or the 120 thousand or the 160 or whatever the correct figure is that they out of order claiming that only 160 thousand became refugees so just forget it. This department run by VP is dedicated to the continued division of our island , he came to London to enlist the other partitionist VP , on joining the department suddenly his views became harder and he begun , for the first time using the standard inverted commas when referring to the ROC. Notice how he throws insults and then ignores the challenge. The man is a divisionist just as the author of this thread. Divide and rule as they say.

So why do GCs inflate these figures? can I say 10.000 TCs were killed and we had 150.000 refugees would that be ok with you? or would that be classed as a big fat lie to trick people into believing I was a victim of GC agression?

Still trying to promote my image? naughty naughty....

[Viewpoint]

All this mudslinging gets us nowhere. Both sides have suffered at the hands of the other and at different times. The security and rights of the Cypriots could be guaranteed by the EU to the extent that that body supervises the police and judiciary, it would probably happen anyway as the EU becomes more integrated.

One of the biggest problems is one of perception. Both side see the other as having the upper hand, both sides see themselves as victims. Putting it simply, in territorial terms Turkey has the upper hand whereas in legal and economic terms the Greek Cypriots are seen as having the advantage. There can be no doubt that Turkey is of vital importance to the world's only super power. The US is determined that Turkey remains secular, she is scared about the consequences for Israel should the Islamists take control in Turkey and to that end the US wants to see Turkey in the EU. Aware of her importance Turkey will eventually agree to a solution that suits her, not the Cypriots.

With regard to refugee numbers I think the different figures quoted for refugees can partly be explained by the fact that a significant proportion of the 200,000 owned property in the north but were not resident there. My father and two of his brothers built holiday/retirement homes in the 60s and early 70s. They all lost their properties but they could not be called refugees.

Well put Jerry!

Most of th earguments here stem from misperception and mistrust, which is typical of many of today's inhabitants on the island. As much as all TCs will agree that the ideal solution would be for Cypriots to live together as one nation, and would vote to support that, there is a strong sence of mistrust and insecurity because of what had happened in the past.

What some of our fellow GCs refusing to understand is the fact that "trust" cannot be dictated but earned! Meanwhile, The other side who is supposedly trying to gain your trust is constantly denying and lying about the true events of the past and pretending to be the victims and sufferers when in reality the only sufferers have been the TCs for the past 44 years - not GCs, not Greece, not Turkiye! All of these three had benefited from the Cyprus problem one way or another.

TCs are all aware of everything GC leaders do in the international arena. When they see that they are the other side are the main source of all the economic hardships TCs are facing (because of their persistence in denying them to travel directly to their homes from abroad, trade directly with the rest of the world etc) and make flawed allegations to make the victim look like the persecutor - the trust goes out of the window!

Perhaps now you can see why myself and many others TCs in this forum are trying to get the other side to accept the wrongs of the past, and show some sign of recognising TCs as fellow Cypriot citizens by not blocking their trade or travel. THAT will earn them the trust in good time and bring the members of the island together.

As it stands, TCs are well aware that with the "deny and lie" mentality, the events of the past are more than likely to repeat themselves at the first opportune moment! As anothe TC participant once suggested, Turkey will not be able to intervene ever again to protect the TCs, once it pulls out of the island, because it is noe an EU country - and we all know from past experience how good (?) the EU or U.N. is if it came to that! We saw it in Bosnia not so long ago. If it weren't for NATO forces taking action ethnic clensing would have carried on forever with the rest of Christian Europe effectively doing nothing...

Great post, clearly put well done.

[bigOz]

Approximately 200.000 refugees + 6000 dead among GCs is a lie, period.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/conseque ... senate.htm

Get Real - You are embarassing yourself as always! I wish you would read these articles fully before forwrding them like a loose fool!

Forget about the initial waffle and read the important highlighted areas where ii actually says:

"Based upon statistics of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and International Committee of the Red Cross, as of September 15, 1974.
Subsequently, revised statistics on displaced persons in Cyprus complied as of Nov. 1, 1974 by the Government of Cyprus, UNFICYP, the UNHCR and ICRC, Indicate the total has been reduced slightly. According to sources in the field, this is accountable to the subsequent release and repatriation of over 6,000 detainees and prisoners of war of both sides, a more accurate census of Greek Cypriot refugees by the Government of Cyprus, and revised U.N. estimates of Turkish Cypriot refugees.

Greek Cypriots in Government-controlled areas :

Satisfactorily sheltered with friends/relatives or in second homes rented 57,600

Living in public buildings, schools, etc. 5,800

Housed in permanent structures, but overcrowded conditions and will have to move 89,700

Living in shacks, garages, unfinished structures 11,000

Living in tents 9,000

Living in the open, under trees, in makeshift, open shelters 7,700

Total 180,800

Turkish Cypriots in Government-controlled areas:

Living in tents on British Sovereign Base areas 8,500

In isolated villages, cut off or in controlled village enclaves 22,000

Total 30,500"

If you take into account that these figures were supplied by the (Greek) Cyprus Government's official sources and the earlier statement of the same article that said "thousands of other Greek Cypriots, living in areas bordering the ceasefire line, have been temporarily displaced, because of actual Turkish troop movements in their area or the fear and threat of new military operations by Turkish forces." that the Cyprus Government had undoubtedly considered as refugees, you might understand why a figure of 160, 000 might have been more accurate! So VP or anyone else is not a liar afterall, are they?

Although I do agree with some of the points miltiades makes at times, I suggest he reads my previous post above (in reply to Jerry) to see why he or any other GCs current attitude to issues is not helping at all...

[Kikapu]

What some of our fellow GCs refusing to understand is the fact that "trust" cannot be dictated but earned! Meanwhile, The other side who is supposedly trying to gain your trust is constantly denying and lying about the true events of the past and pretending to be the victims and sufferers when in reality the only sufferers have been the TCs for the past 44 years - ...

I don't think you have thought out this part too well.

Perhaps you were in too much of a hurry to get the "truth" out.

[bigOz]

What some of our fellow GCs refusing to understand is the fact that "trust" cannot be dictated but earned! Meanwhile, The other side who is supposedly trying to gain your trust is constantly denying and lying about the true events of the past and pretending to be the victims and sufferers when in reality the only sufferers have been the TCs for the past 44 years - ...

I don't think you have thought out this part too well.

Perhaps you were in too much of a hurry to get the "truth" out.

You have an extreme gift for making stupid remarks! It just shows just how more Greek you really are than any other GCs in this forum who probably will not find my above post offensive (which it was not).

Again, stop acting the part of a philosopher and telling me how well I can or cannot think! If it comes to intelligence and brains I assure you I would chew you up and spit you out anytime - so behave you moron!