LENA wrote:Viewpoint wrote: Rape is rape dear Lena and kicking and biting back to defend yourself is not wrong in my book, the husband had no intention of loving or caring for the baby, he had ideas to sell it to a man called Greece, thats why in 1963 when the baby was only 3 years old, the husband used force to take the baby away from its mother and sell it to Greece, that when the mother knew she didnt love her husband anymore but the husband didnt care as he was stronger so when she did give him any sex he started to rape her of not only her body but her soul, for 11 years she suffered continous rape, left in poverty, isolated and in fear of death, her families homes were burnt to the ground and her cousins went missing never to be found again.
VP, first of all, do you want to tell me something? Are you writing a book about the Cyprus problem as a novel? Ok you probably meant about your story and not book, it sound weird and I wanted to clear that up.
As for the husband, do you forget that people before the war was leaving all together happy and help each other, eat from the same food, share even the same house some times etc. VP, if you want to tell the story with the real facts at least you have to admit some things. They were in love, and they had love and not sex, they were happy that they leaved together but unfortunately third people was jealous about their relationship and happiness. And as for the baby, the husband wanted the baby, badly and actually is the husband that take care the baby. If you remember the baby didn’t exist until 1960 and the baby was with his wife not the neighbour that he was flirting…Greece…remember my story? Well, he wanted a baby, and I admit that he turn to that neighbour that he was flirting and he ask for a baby from her. But finally, on 1960 they had a baby together, the husband and the wife. But the wife didn’t really want the baby and since 1963 (as you said) that baby die for her. It was alive and there, but she didn’t want to take care the baby, she didn’t want to know anything about that even if the baby had part of her. The husband raised that baby. But he never took it away form her…she didn’t want it. She consider that baby as dead…you said that VP not me…I am building in your story. Don’t forget that the wife was flirting with the neighbour and she rejected both of them, the baby and her husband…VP he was man and he was used to her love and sex…but now she was aggressive and she rejected him…he was telling her to go to bed together and she was split on his face. But she was not innocent as well…don’t forget all those scratches as well. She rejected him, she denied sleeping with him and she caused him physical pain as well.Viewpoint wrote: We all wish it had never happened but we cant turn the clock back, thats why we have to accepts our wrongs and pay for our past mistakes, we have to learn from the past and move forward to what we consider would be a better life for both the husband and the wife.
Exactly my point VP, but you do not accept the mistakes of your part. Who want to present things as you want to present them like its only our fault. We have to accept the past and forgive. If we don’t forgive, even if we move on, we will always have the anger inside of us and we will always hate each other and will never be able to trust each other. We force our selves to stay isolated. You keep saying that the husband kept her isolated…but now she doesn’t want to be free…she want to stay home…well she might like being home, and she find all this excuses just to tell to the husband some reasons why she doesn’t trust him etcViewpoint wrote: No it does not give him the right to rape her or sell her baby, how would you feel as a woman if it were you in her position?
First he didn’t sell her baby. He still has the baby which now is not a baby any more, is a strong young man. I agree he didn’t have the right to rape her and I am not supporting what he has done. But she forced him as well. VP, I never tell what I was going to do in such a position because rape is something really serious and when you are out of the situation you don’t know. I never plan my reactions. I cope with every situation when I have a situation to deal, not before. I don’t make plans in case I have the situation and I don’t give say what I was going to do in such serious situations. The emotional part is beyond the legal advice etc. We are trying to replace the facts from Cyprus history in this story but I will not answer your question. (I have talked with a woman in such situation that’s why I feel that way). I hope you understand.Viewpoint wrote: Are you in a better position to know more about this couples sex life or the wife? Although the neighbour is not her first love just like yours will never be, she has found security and safety in his arms they have even and raised a baby together call the TRNC, he has never raped or forced her to do anything, he may not be the best looking man and he may have a jealous streak but the choice she has is between a rapist and a man that provides security and safety, the choice is imo obvious.
No VP I am not in a better condition to know about their sexual life but we had coffee together couple of times…and you know when women chat during coffee time they share some secrets as well. You don’t have anything bad to say I ask you if he is perfect partner…and you tell me that sex is better with him than rape…but you support him because of the money and the security that provide you…Viewpoint wrote:Lena is there a perfect husband out there? he has his faults but he keeps me safe and secure and doesnt rape me. The choice is clear the rapist or the not so refine guy.
But still you are saying through some tips that things are not so perfect but you do not answer my questions straight. When I ask you if you are happy, pleased and you can say that everything is perfect you reply to me that nobody is perfect or is better that the past experience. You never moved on VP, you are still stuck in the past. You are there and you are not willing to move on as you say. But I wander which security are you talking about? The fact that he kept you isolated all this years you call it security and the fact that you stayed home for your husband you call it isolation. Sex with your husband even if it was not with your will you call it rape and sex with the neighbour even if its not with your will but you are forced because you do not have a third choice you call it sex with pleasure…VP you sound like masochist…is start getting weird here!
I asked you if you have anything good to say about the husband…Viewpoint wrote:LENA wrote:Ok more than one but I am sure you can manage it! By the way can you tell me (since you are from the side of the woman) if the woman see her husband as a rapist only. She has anything good to say for him? Does she have memories from the years that they were in love?
Only the 3 years when they had a baby becuase the husband was alway violent he used to like beating up a man called British and then he woudl turn on me and kick me in the head telling me not say he should not try and kill British. How can a woman overcome 11 years of rape, poverty and isolation for 3 years of romance with someone who is known for his violent temprement?
And you don’t have anything to say. You deny all the good moments and you remember the bad things. VP, what I told you and I will tell you again is that the woman is not willing to move on. She likes the neighbour and she doesn’t want to leave him. But she wants alimony from the husband and she keeps saying to him, I would love to live with you but I can not trust you any more. Show me that I can trust you. The poor husband does something and she say no is not enough I can not trust you from such a small thing I want more…the whole procedure keep going and going…the woman is never pleased.Viewpoint wrote: All partners give their wives money does that make that relation one of prostitute and pimp? this is called trust and co-operation.
VP, to give money to somebody that you love as a present is normal and yes happen within married relationships (by the way the couple here is not married…they leave together and he brought his family in the house as well), but to give to somebody money to f* him/her that make the relationship of the pimp and the prostitutre.Viewpoint wrote: Or maybe he just want to have the freedom torape her again and whnever he wanted only if he could get rid of the neighbour then she woudl be exposed and back to square 1, whats the point?
That’s luck of trust. You see shadows everywhere…VP I am telling you white and you tell me no the black that is under the white makes the whit look dark grey…you don’t accept that the white shit is roughly made so can hide the dark. I remind you that the woman asks him to do something that she doesn’t want to, is something beyond his power. He is a man and he doesn’t accept to sleep with another man. But she keeps asking him that. VP the woman is just not willing to trust him or live with him. The fault is not from the husband attitude but from the unwillingness wife. So I remind you again for the planAs for the plan, she said yes because the plan included everything she asked and even more but didn’t include some of the things that he requested. And he did NOT request to rape her but he couldn’t accept the fact that he had to sleep with the neighbour as well. The woman didn’t have any problems since she had sex with both of them in the past. But for him, the fact that he had to share his wife, share the house and sleep with him at the same time it was too much. That’s why he rejected the plan.Viewpoint wrote: Would you go back to your rapist? even though he claims to have changed and he still clenches his fist banging it on a table called embargoes, they are only married on paper due to number of years that has passed they are technically divorced only a joint decision left.
VP, the neighbour as you said provides her with all the support financial and emotional. But for this point you can see how greedy the wife is. She doesn’t want the “lovely” partner but she wants the money from the husband as well. She denies everything else from him and she demand his money! That’s sound good to you? Because for me sound a bit weird and greedy!Viewpoint wrote: He buys and offers her a dress and trinkets yet continues to ensure she cannot work or go abroad or even have visitation rights to the child he stole from her arms.
VP, the story is one can not change when doesn’t please you. The baby is alive with the husband. He didn’t steal it from her arms, but she didn’t want the baby at first place, she felt jealous about the other woman that he used to flirt and when the baby was 3 years old she said that the baby was dead for her. As for the work, she offer her every right to come and work with him, with they way that the business used to co-operate for all this years with his customers. So that’s another lie from your part. She can go abroad as well…third lie in the same line. She needs to use his surname since they are still couple according to the law. They didn’t get the divorce even if they don’t live together any more. So she can travel with his surname and not husband surname. She even get advantages if she use his surname but she doesn’t want again…SHE IS NOT WILLING she is able and the husband provide her with all that but she just doesn’t want. As for the visitation that’s not true as well…it was one of the things that she offer her to go back to her. She can have visitation from all over the world. But because of the law they will have to report to the airport that they visitor are going to his place…remember legally they are married. Her visitors can go to her place and can go to his place as well.Viewpoint wrote: You are a woman could you get back into the same bed with the man that raped your for 11 years?
Told you I am not going to comment on that because is difficult to say if you haven’t live that…and I am not talking about Cyprus I am talking about the rape.
If is for Cyprus I say yes. The people that cause all that grief most of them are dead, people changed from both sides…but if you remember from the past is your side that want to hurt as now…they shoot some men few years ago if you remember. GC didn’t shoot anybody. Grey wolfs are still active…am I wrong…and in another post you told me that if we live together they will bomb a school and kill innocent children. VP, watch the hole you are digging because you are digging under your feet and you might fall in at the end.Viewpoint wrote: Imo if I were the woman I would want my own house and laws where he could not force his will on me every again. The right to share equally the rights to their child "RoC" which should be renamed "United Cyprus" just to forget the bad past and repeated rapes carried out by the husband. The guarantee from the neighbour and husband that if the husband should try to hurt or rape the wife again the neighbour could return and split the 2 forever.
VP, you know that I respect you and that I believe that you are a clever man. But this was the most stupid thing that I heard. You are telling me that you want to share the Cyprus among TC and GC like puzzle pieces and name it United Cyprus. Well how is going to be named United since it will not be united but divided into shares. Each share holder will have his own table to put his pieces and he will do it with the way he wants. How they will finish that puzzle? The puzzle is one but we have 2 people working on it with different way and in different areas…how they picture will be done? Also the most unacceptable part was the part with Turkey. You told me that we will wave to Turkey by saying good bye and thank you from the lovely f* but if he ever touch me come back again and get even more for him and stay here for ever. First this is madness…Turkey will never accept that…you have to admit that they didn’t love you that much and that’s why they helped you but they had a plan and they wanted a pay back for their effort. Second, you tell me that you want to repeat the same mistakes and have a second war here, more dead people to bury and more grief. Also Turkey occupy only 1/3 of Cyprus and you want the next time to get ½ . I will ask you one thing why you do not write a plan by your self and give the whole island to Turkey as a present from you to them with all your love?Viewpoint wrote: They could meet to talk about how to raise united Cyprus and to make sure that both houses are in good repair and that the flowers are growing properly and that there is enough water for everyone.
VP here we are not chatting like “koumeres”=best bride drinking our coffee and discuss about the flowers. I told you to meet you one time and you didn’t want to. Ok I respect that and I understood your reasons. But through the time that I am in the forum you express your self more than once that you do not consider us as compatriots etc…now you want to meet (generally speaking). Then you said that you don’t want a united Cyprus and the best solution is the puzzle idea. Now you talk about united Cyprus. Make up your mind VP, I am start getting dizzy again from all this dancing movements.
Can you see that here you are talking about money and a woman. The two men are fighting for the same woman and about land and houses etc, (the 2 of the 4favor subjects of men, thank God you selected those two because I am useless with cars and football). Can you see that the woman can use her female power to have what she wants? It’s up to her what she is going to. But she sits back and asks for the husband to do what she wants. She want him to beg, to kiss her feet and say I am sorry I will do what you want from now on. But she is not really willing to go back to him. Whatever she offers her she want more. She is never pleased. But my dear VP, he is a man and he has his pride. He can not promise her something that he will not do. He can not force him self to sleep with another man. It is out of question that part. But she keeps telling him how great sex with him is even if she has to sit in soft chairs because she is in pain. I hope you understand that she is in pain, emotionally and physically. She is trying to hide it but she is. Although she is clever, she acts really stupid. She is clever enough to deal with both of them but she is stupid that she lay back and wait from them to please her…and the only thing she get is please the others sexually and she earn some money (and then you argue with me that I call them pimp and prostitute). She has to be active again. She has to take her life into her hands, use her female power and forget the past.
Lena thanks for this post but responding to each and every point you have raised would take to much time, maybe we can just agree to disagree on the details as we have different points of view.
You have sucessfully turned the rapist husband into the hero and the raped wife into a greedy bitch who deserved to get raped repeatedly for 11 years. This tells me more about your own mental approach in dealing with the truth that the husband is an animal, who rapes his wife.
The main issues you are claiming are that the wife should forget and forgive the husband for brutally raping and abusing her for 11 years, turn her back on her neighbour (who is not her pimp but her lover and protector, the sex is good dont worry yourself about that, if it wasnt they would have stopped years ago but 33 years later and they are still going strong) who has only shown her affection, support and love, dumping her son TRNC returning to raise "RoC" with the rapist husband in his bed where he raped her over and over.
The most important sentence you posted was as follows;
Told you I am not going to comment on that because is difficult to say if you haven’t live that…and I am not talking about Cyprus I am talking about the rape.
But the wife (TCs) has suffered the rape and abuse so she has to take it into account and cannot ignore it like you. You choose to ignore it because no woman in their right mind would return to the bed of her rapist and let him have sexual realtions with her, thats really why you cannot answer.
Yet you recommend the wife goes back and accepts the husband as he is, how will you protect and ensure that the husband does not continue to rape her over and over again once the neighbour has been sent packing? I really dont feel you are being honest here, as far as I know you, you are a lady with pride and emotions, you would never go back to the bed of your rapist, so why are you trying to tell us to do this?
