Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

We should all indeed lighten up a bit,and stop the personal insults,people...

And time to put an end to the senseless prosecution of Kikapu,for simply and honestly telling us his heartfelt feelings on his return to his homeland...VP,Zan,bigOz et al need to accept the fact that there are TCs in this world who have managed to see the reality through all that smokescreen of propaganda coming from both sides in this conflict...

Kikapu's unforgivable(!) sin has been to have the courage to test VP's doomsday theories regarding the GCs and life in the RoC,and found them totally unconvincing...incredible...not relevant in this day and age...And worse,having the courage to publish his findings on this forum...The personal attacks on Kikapu has not stopped ever since and became so intense and coordinated that Kikapu had to reply in kind eventually...

Perhaps it is time to pause here and reflect on the damage all this is causing to the efforts to find a just and lasting solution to our motherland's bitter division...Lena mou and VP have done us all a favour by putting considerable time and effort in putting their "big picture " into dramatic terms...And once again they proved one point...That unless we start using the essential human quality of empathy to look at our preconcieved ideas,we will never end the pain and suffering that has become such an entrenched part of our collective unconscious..

Kikapu looked through his own TC eyes and found the empathy necessary to see the picture from the South of the border...He saw a community,his own,locked up behing barb wires,ostracised from the world,drowning in their own fear and bitterness,on the point of extinction,silenced,stripped of dignity and humanity...Yet insisting on recognition and reward for not having the courage to tell their "saviours" they do not need or want to be saved from their compatriots,thank you very much...And he is paying the price for his empathy...

Time for our GC compatriots to respond in kind,and find the empathy to see the world from the North of the border...To feel the fear entrenched in the TC collective unconscious of all the years of pain and suffering,and the fear of physical extermination,real or imaginary, which went with being a TC in Cyprus between 1963 and 74...To feel the catharsis of relief and the gratitude at the sight of the Turkish soldiers dropping from the sky...To experience the disappointment of the long years which followed waiting for a just solution to reclaim their interrupted lives,only to be accused of being willing participants in the invasion and partition of their country,isolated and left by their compatriots to be eaten slowly by their "saviours" and other scavengers eager to profit from other people's tragedy and misery...

Kikapu has shown us all what we must do to end this sensless destruction of our motherland...If we don't all dig deep and find the empathy necessary to put ourselves in the "others" shoes as he has done,this game is lost,and we are doomed as one nation...

What can one say when such a moving and poignant post is made by a brilliant Cypriot who has the vision and the wisdom to see both sides of the coin , this is why I respect you my dear friend , and the motivating reason for my impending visit to the village that gave birth to such a wonderful and genuine Cypriot.I take my hat off to you Bir and I am eternally grateful that mother luck brought you on this forum to show the world that we can empathise with each others' pain and suffering and yet we are willing to embrace and go forward as Cypriots in a united Cyprus. I have posted many times my dream to see a T/C as a president of Cyprus , its knowing people like you that my dream is kept alive. You touched my heart and I m sure the heart of all those Cypriots whose aspirations are to see a united Cyprus where all Cypriots will be equal and where minorities and majorities issues will become insignificant , and our future generations will live on this wonderful island free from the chains of nationalistic constrains that are responsible for all the suffering of our people.

Again I ask you how do you intend to achieve a balance between TCs and GCs? where a TC will have the opportunity to become president when 80% of the voting population are GCs I and many other posters would be interested to read your concrete proposals on exactly how we will all become Cypriots , why do you continue to avoid this issue? I sense that you do not have any safeguard issue to put forward and you believe that TC should accept being a minority in a GC state run by GCs, am I right?

[BirKibrisli]

What can one say when such a moving and poignant post is made by a brilliant Cypriot who has the vision and the wisdom to see both sides of the coin , this is why I respect you my dear friend , and the motivating reason for my impending visit to the village that gave birth to such a wonderful and genuine Cypriot.I take my hat off to you Bir and I am eternally grateful that mother luck brought you on this forum to show the world that we can empathise with each others' pain and suffering and yet we are willing to embrace and go forward as Cypriots in a united Cyprus. I have posted many times my dream to see a T/C as a president of Cyprus , its knowing people like you that my dream is kept alive. You touched my heart and I m sure the heart of all those Cypriots whose aspirations are to see a united Cyprus where all Cypriots will be equal and where minorities and majorities issues will become insignificant , and our future generations will live on this wonderful island free from the chains of nationalistic constrains that are responsible for all the suffering of our people.

Thank you once again,for your kind words,dear miltiades...
Coming from you,they mean a lot to me,dear compatriot.
We shall indeed never give up the quest for peace,justice,and freedom for all our people,and God-willing we will both live to see it happen in our beloved Cyprus...I wish you a safe and wonderful trip to our motherland,and may you be blessed with light,love and joy always...
Allah yolunu acik etsin...

[Viewpoint]

We should all indeed lighten up a bit,and stop the personal insults,people...

And time to put an end to the senseless prosecution of Kikapu,for simply and honestly telling us his heartfelt feelings on his return to his homeland...VP,Zan,bigOz et al need to accept the fact that there are TCs in this world who have managed to see the reality through all that smokescreen of propaganda coming from both sides in this conflict...

Kikapu's unforgivable(!) sin has been to have the courage to test VP's doomsday theories regarding the GCs and life in the RoC,and found them totally unconvincing...incredible...not relevant in this day and age...And worse,having the courage to publish his findings on this forum...The personal attacks on Kikapu has not stopped ever since and became so intense and coordinated that Kikapu had to reply in kind eventually...

Perhaps it is time to pause here and reflect on the damage all this is causing to the efforts to find a just and lasting solution to our motherland's bitter division...Lena mou and VP have done us all a favour by putting considerable time and effort in putting their "big picture " into dramatic terms...And once again they proved one point...That unless we start using the essential human quality of empathy to look at our preconcieved ideas,we will never end the pain and suffering that has become such an entrenched part of our collective unconscious..

Kikapu looked through his own TC eyes and found the empathy necessary to see the picture from the South of the border...He saw a community,his own,locked up behing barb wires,ostracised from the world,drowning in their own fear and bitterness,on the point of extinction,silenced,stripped of dignity and humanity...Yet insisting on recognition and reward for not having the courage to tell their "saviours" they do not need or want to be saved from their compatriots,thank you very much...And he is paying the price for his empathy...

Time for our GC compatriots to respond in kind,and find the empathy to see the world from the North of the border...To feel the fear entrenched in the TC collective unconscious of all the years of pain and suffering,and the fear of physical extermination,real or imaginary, which went with being a TC in Cyprus between 1963 and 74...To feel the catharsis of relief and the gratitude at the sight of the Turkish soldiers dropping from the sky...To experience the disappointment of the long years which followed waiting for a just solution to reclaim their interrupted lives,only to be accused of being willing participants in the invasion and partition of their country,isolated and left by their compatriots to be eaten slowly by their "saviours" and other scavengers eager to profit from other people's tragedy and misery...

Kikapu has shown us all what we must do to end this sensless destruction of our motherland...If we don't all dig deep and find the empathy necessary to put ourselves in the "others" shoes as he has done,this game is lost,and we are doomed as one nation...

Congratualtions Bir another rousing speach but what does it really mean?, we have a man who claims he is a TC who visits the south for 2 weeks after 43 years and now he knows all, come even you cant sell us that one. He has surrendered to the GC perspective and is happy for us to be assimilated and dominated by the numerical majority, thats not empathy but someone who is either a GC or very naive for only exposing himself to one side of the story.l I will not apologise for having a different viewpoint where I see 2 communities living side by side in co-operation and harmony either as 2 states or joined in a Federal structure, with a level playing field.

I also ask the same question to you about how you see the TC role in a united Cyprus and what safe guards you demand for your community of origin? concrete proposals of how you will ensure TCs ar enot dominated or discriminated gainst in a GC state run by GCs?

[Kikapu]

Again I ask you how do you intend to achieve a balance between TCs and GCs? where a TC will have the opportunity to become president when 80% of the voting population are GCs I and many other posters would be interested to read your concrete proposals on exactly how we will all become Cypriots , why do you continue to avoid this issue? I sense that you do not have any safeguard issue to put forward and you believe that TC should accept being a minority in a GC state run by GCs, am I right?

Can you please tell as in a very pointed explanation as to what "safeguards" are needed in a "Republic or a Federal" system of government in Cyprus, in a True Democracy, and not have TC's as a Minority. You were a "minority" in the UK for 30 years, even though you were born there. How did your "Minority" status prevented you, from doing anything you wished to do, that was different than any other English person. Were the decisions made by the British Government excluded you, and favoured an English person over you. Is being a numerical minority a shameful misfortune, as far as you are concerned, because for me, I do not feel a minority as a Cypriot, only a minority, in the numbers, who happen to be part of the 20%, who spoke Turkish and had another religion.

[miltiades]

We should all indeed lighten up a bit,and stop the personal insults,people...

And time to put an end to the senseless prosecution of Kikapu,for simply and honestly telling us his heartfelt feelings on his return to his homeland...VP,Zan,bigOz et al need to accept the fact that there are TCs in this world who have managed to see the reality through all that smokescreen of propaganda coming from both sides in this conflict...

Kikapu's unforgivable(!) sin has been to have the courage to test VP's doomsday theories regarding the GCs and life in the RoC,and found them totally unconvincing...incredible...not relevant in this day and age...And worse,having the courage to publish his findings on this forum...The personal attacks on Kikapu has not stopped ever since and became so intense and coordinated that Kikapu had to reply in kind eventually...

Perhaps it is time to pause here and reflect on the damage all this is causing to the efforts to find a just and lasting solution to our motherland's bitter division...Lena mou and VP have done us all a favour by putting considerable time and effort in putting their "big picture " into dramatic terms...And once again they proved one point...That unless we start using the essential human quality of empathy to look at our preconcieved ideas,we will never end the pain and suffering that has become such an entrenched part of our collective unconscious..

Kikapu looked through his own TC eyes and found the empathy necessary to see the picture from the South of the border...He saw a community,his own,locked up behing barb wires,ostracised from the world,drowning in their own fear and bitterness,on the point of extinction,silenced,stripped of dignity and humanity...Yet insisting on recognition and reward for not having the courage to tell their "saviours" they do not need or want to be saved from their compatriots,thank you very much...And he is paying the price for his empathy...

Time for our GC compatriots to respond in kind,and find the empathy to see the world from the North of the border...To feel the fear entrenched in the TC collective unconscious of all the years of pain and suffering,and the fear of physical extermination,real or imaginary, which went with being a TC in Cyprus between 1963 and 74...To feel the catharsis of relief and the gratitude at the sight of the Turkish soldiers dropping from the sky...To experience the disappointment of the long years which followed waiting for a just solution to reclaim their interrupted lives,only to be accused of being willing participants in the invasion and partition of their country,isolated and left by their compatriots to be eaten slowly by their "saviours" and other scavengers eager to profit from other people's tragedy and misery...

Kikapu has shown us all what we must do to end this sensless destruction of our motherland...If we don't all dig deep and find the empathy necessary to put ourselves in the "others" shoes as he has done,this game is lost,and we are doomed as one nation...

What can one say when such a moving and poignant post is made by a brilliant Cypriot who has the vision and the wisdom to see both sides of the coin , this is why I respect you my dear friend , and the motivating reason for my impending visit to the village that gave birth to such a wonderful and genuine Cypriot.I take my hat off to you Bir and I am eternally grateful that mother luck brought you on this forum to show the world that we can empathise with each others' pain and suffering and yet we are willing to embrace and go forward as Cypriots in a united Cyprus. I have posted many times my dream to see a T/C as a president of Cyprus , its knowing people like you that my dream is kept alive. You touched my heart and I m sure the heart of all those Cypriots whose aspirations are to see a united Cyprus where all Cypriots will be equal and where minorities and majorities issues will become insignificant , and our future generations will live on this wonderful island free from the chains of nationalistic constrains that are responsible for all the suffering of our people.

Again I ask you how do you intend to achieve a balance between TCs and GCs? where a TC will have the opportunity to become president when 80% of the voting population are GCs I and many other posters would be interested to read your concrete proposals on exactly how we will all become Cypriots , why do you continue to avoid this issue? I sense that you do not have any safeguard issue to put forward and you believe that TC should accept being a minority in a GC state run by GCs, am I right?

No You are wrong. It is because there are bigots such as you on both sides that it will take that much longer to achieve. You have posted more than 3000 posts and yet not one single conciliatory tone , you persistently dig up the past and post negative reasons as to why the unification of our island is impossible. Gordon Brown , being Scottish , is also from a minority group within the United Kingdom , but Prime Minister he will be because fortunately the Brits have moved with the times and and not stuck in the past like you and the likes of you on both sides.
No harm could possibly come to me if I visited the occupied part of Cyprus and likewise if you visited the RoC, but I forget that you consider this part to be just as foreign to you as Spain , Africa or any other part of the world as you recently posted. I did not then know that you were not even born in Cyprus , now I understand the comparison. Stop delving into the past and concentrate on the positive aspects surrounding our people. No recognition will be forthcoming so start being positive on how to unite our island.

[miltiades]

Again I ask you how do you intend to achieve a balance between TCs and GCs? where a TC will have the opportunity to become president when 80% of the voting population are GCs I and many other posters would be interested to read your concrete proposals on exactly how we will all become Cypriots , why do you continue to avoid this issue? I sense that you do not have any safeguard issue to put forward and you believe that TC should accept being a minority in a GC state run by GCs, am I right?

Can you please tell as in a very pointed explanation as to what "safeguards" are needed in a "Republic or a Federal" system of government in Cyprus, in a True Democracy, and not have TC's as a Minority. You were a "minority" in the UK for 30 years, even though you were born there. How did your "Minority" status prevented you, from doing anything you wished to do, that was different than any other English person. Were the decisions made by the British Government excluded you, and favoured an English person over you. Is being a numerical minority a shameful misfortune, as far as you are concerned, because for me, I do not feel a minority as a Cypriot, only a minority, in the numbers, who happen to be part of the 20%, who spoke Turkish and had another religion.

Like you Kikapu , I do not wake up in the morning exasperated by the fact that in the UK I am part of a minority. Never considered it and never bothered with it. Under the law of the land my rights as a citizen are safe guarded . What VP is concerned with is the fact that HE is a big fish in a small pond but with Cyprus united he will be a mere average size , the same as you and I. He was born not in Cyprus but overseas. He returns after 30 or so years and picks up the mantle of partition and justifies his commitment to it by negative and full of hatred comments.
I'm certain he lectures the young people of the dire consequences awaiting them should unification occur and they become exposed to the evil G/Cs .

[Viewpoint]

Still no answer miltiades?

Go back and read my 3000 post you have obviously not understood a thing due to your blinkered vision, on a number of occassion I have show a concilatary attitude but obviously you were so blinded by your hate for anyone with a different opinion you missed it.

The Scots have their own land flag money and parliament. They have a degree of autonomy where they decide their own own fate as long as it does not conflict with the central government. Their political parites are mixed and they have evolved, these are all measures to ensure their survival. What you suggest for us is the more like the Pakistanis in the UK not the Scots, who are second class citizens and discriminated against every day.

No harm comes to either community when they cross the border because everyone knows their bounderies and respects the other sides laws just like any other tourist.

I ask yet again what are your proposals for the united Cyprus you dream of? What is the role of the TCs? how will you ensure we are not dominated and excluded by the numerical majority?

[Kikapu]

I ask yet again what are your proposals for the united Cyprus you dream of? What is the role of the TCs? how will you ensure we are not dominated and excluded by the numerical majority?

Stop asking too many questions of others, and answer the ones I posted to you.

[Kikapu]

What you suggest for us is the more like the Pakistanis in the UK ?

They are not second class citizens you idiot, because the Laws of the Land also protects them equally. It is Racism and Bigotry that they have to face because the colour of their skin and how they talk. When I visited Cyprus, they all thought I was just like any other Cypriot.

Guess what, I was just an another Cypriot.

[iceman]

Again I ask you how do you intend to achieve a balance between TCs and GCs? where a TC will have the opportunity to become president when 80% of the voting population are GCs I and many other posters would be interested to read your concrete proposals on exactly how we will all become Cypriots , why do you continue to avoid this issue? I sense that you do not have any safeguard issue to put forward and you believe that TC should accept being a minority in a GC state run by GCs, am I right?

Can you please tell as in a very pointed explanation as to what "safeguards" are needed in a "Republic or a Federal" system of government in Cyprus, in a True Democracy, and not have TC's as a Minority. You were a "minority" in the UK for 30 years, even though you were born there. How did your "Minority" status prevented you, from doing anything you wished to do, that was different than any other English person. Were the decisions made by the British Government excluded you, and favoured an English person over you. Is being a numerical minority a shameful misfortune, as far as you are concerned, because for me, I do not feel a minority as a Cypriot, only a minority, in the numbers, who happen to be part of the 20%, who spoke Turkish and had another religion.

In UK the situation is not the same bacause for example if a Pakistani or a Turk was doing business the British wouldn't say lets not give our money to him because he is Pakistani or Turkish..
In Cyprus...Or in fact show me a GC on this board that would prefer to go into a TC's shop to buy anything even if he was charging half the price any other GC shop was charging...Is this not discrimination of some sort that can lead to destroy TC community economically?
I am afraid we have been there before and seen their attitude when it comes to doing business...
For GC's we can only be on the buying side...never on the selling.