Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

It always amuses me when people bleat on about being a poor victimised minority

Show me where any TCs claim they are a minority? Show me where in any part of the original constitution of the RoC that refers to/classifies/handles the TCs as a minority? Greece is approximately 5% of the EU`s population, are they a minority in the EU?

EU is not a country. You didn't know that? EU is a union of countries. The unit (member) of EU is a state, not a citizen. In countries however the unit is the citizen. Can you show me any democratic country that the unit is not the citizen but the ethnic group? The regime that South Africa used to have maybe? Thats what you have in mind for Cyprus?

Oh stop talking crap Piratis. The 1960 constitution had us as equal partners and just like Makarios you want to take that away from us. You know what.......NO DEAL!!!!!!!

[Piratis]

If it was "equal partners" then why GCs had the president and TCs the vice president? I don't see the equality you claim there.

Sure, the 1960 constitution made by the British gave to the TC minority more rights than what proportionately belongs to them. Nobody doubt thats. But don't tell me that the 18% was equated to the 82%. That would be totally undemocratic, and is not part of the 1960 agreements.

[zan]

If it was "equal partners" then why GCs had the president and TCs the vice president? I don't see the equality you claim there.

Sure, the 1960 constitution made by the British gave to the TC minority more rights than what proportionately belongs to them. Nobody doubt thats. But don't tell me that the 18% was equated to the 82%. That would be totally undemocratic, and is not part of the 1960 agreements.

The 1960 Constitution
The Constitution (Cmd. 1093) represented a compromise between the rights and aspirations of Greek and of Turkish-Cypriots. Although the Greek-Cypriots were more numerous the Turkish-Cypriots had lived in Cyprus for 400 years as a distinct community, and were willing to join the new Republic in exercise of their right of self-determination only if that basic fact of political life in Cyprus was formally recognized. The alternatives were two separate states, a condominium division of the island between Greece and Turkey, or continued British rule. It was eventually agreed upon that the new state would be a bi-communal Republic. Its structure was therefore unique because it was a quasi-federation in which there were two political entities within only one geographical area.

The bi-communal nature of the Republic is fundamental to the state of affairs created by the 1960 Treaties, and from its very inception the Republic of Cyprus had never been a unitary state in which decisions are made solely on the basis of one-man-one-vote. The two communities were political equals; not in the sense that each had the same legislative or executive powers, for those accorded to the Greek-Cypriots by the Constitution were greater by virtue of their numbers; but in the sense that each existed as a political entity, just as both large and small states exist as political entities within the structure of the European Community.

At the conclusion of the negotiations the Prime Minister of Greece made the following declaration (Cmd 680):

'From the very outset of these negotiations our main preoccupation was that there should be no victor in them, except the people of Cyprus themselves. I am certain we have achieved this. It is the best solution because its main foundation is co-operation between Greeks and Turks in the island, and in our two countries. And it is the best solution because it leaves to the island's majority the rights enabling it to develop in the most appropriate manner all aspects of its life, while it secures for the minority a splendid opportunity for maintaining its character and institutions, as well as for enjoying their generous share of common authority and responsibilities.'

[Piratis]

The 1960 Constitution

What you posted is not the 1960 constitution, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is just some Turkish propaganda.

Nowhere in the constitution you will find that TC have a separate right for self-determination or any of the other crap in your propaganda quote.

[zan]

The 1960 Constitution

What you posted is not the 1960 constitution, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is just some Turkish propaganda.

Nowhere in the constitution you will find that TC have a separate right for self-determination or any of the other crap in your propaganda quote.

The means by which the Constitution gave effect to the agreement were fourfold; political, legal, administrative, and military. The President was to be a Greek-Cypriot and the Vice-President a Turkish-Cypriot. Legislative authority was vested in a House of Representatives, of whom 70% would be Greek-Cypriots and 30% Turkish-Cypriots, but legislation was subject to the veto of the President and / or Vice-President in certain specified circumstances. Moreover, legislation relating to certain matters of sensitivity as between the two communities required a separate majority of the representatives from each community.

The interpretation and enforcement of the Constitution was entrusted to a Supreme Constitutional Court, which consisted of three judges, a Greek-Cypriot, a Turkish-Cypriot and a neutral as President of the Court. The Council of Ministers was to consist of seven Greek-Cypriots and three Turkish-Cypriots. The Civil Service was to consist of 70% Greek-Cypriots and 30% Turkish-Cypriots. Further, by Article 173 (1) it was provided that separate municipalities were to be established in the five largest towns, subject to transitional provisions and to review within four years.

Underpinning the Constitution were the armed forces of the Republic and, in the last resort, the three Guarantor Powers. By Article 129 it was provided that the Army should consist of 2,000 men of whom (subject to transitional provisions) 70% would be Greek-Cypriots and 30% would be Turkish-Cypriots. The strength of the Police and Gendarmerie could be varied, but only with the agreement of the Vice-President.

[Piratis]

The 1960 Constitution

What you posted is not the 1960 constitution, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is just some Turkish propaganda.

Nowhere in the constitution you will find that TC have a separate right for self-determination or any of the other crap in your propaganda quote.

The means by which the Constitution gave effect to the agreement were fourfold; political, legal, administrative, and military. The President was to be a Greek-Cypriot and the Vice-President a Turkish-Cypriot. Legislative authority was vested in a House of Representatives, of whom 70% would be Greek-Cypriots and 30% Turkish-Cypriots, but legislation was subject to the veto of the President and / or Vice-President in certain specified circumstances. Moreover, legislation relating to certain matters of sensitivity as between the two communities required a separate majority of the representatives from each community.

The interpretation and enforcement of the Constitution was entrusted to a Supreme Constitutional Court, which consisted of three judges, a Greek-Cypriot, a Turkish-Cypriot and a neutral as President of the Court. The Council of Ministers was to consist of seven Greek-Cypriots and three Turkish-Cypriots. The Civil Service was to consist of 70% Greek-Cypriots and 30% Turkish-Cypriots. Further, by Article 173 (1) it was provided that separate municipalities were to be established in the five largest towns, subject to transitional provisions and to review within four years.

Underpinning the Constitution were the armed forces of the Republic and, in the last resort, the three Guarantor Powers. By Article 129 it was provided that the Army should consist of 2,000 men of whom (subject to transitional provisions) 70% would be Greek-Cypriots and 30% would be Turkish-Cypriots. The strength of the Police and Gendarmerie could be varied, but only with the agreement of the Vice-President.

70% > (greater than) 30%
Being able to to stop ANY decision > (greater than) Right to veto certain decisions.

So again, yes you can claim that TCs got more than what proportionately belonged to them (30% instead of 18% in certain things, and veto powers in certain issues), but not that the 18% was equated with the 82%. This simply was not the case.

[Jerry]

It always amuses me when people bleat on about being a poor victimised minority

Show me where any TCs claim they are a minority? Show me where in any part of the original constitution of the RoC that refers to/classifies/handles the TCs as a minority? Greece is approximately 5% of the EU`s population, are they a minority in the EU?

Obviously Murataga, mathematics is not your greatest strength. The Turkish Cypriots may not claim to be a minority but the fact that they are 18% of the population says that, like it or not, they are indeed a minority. If you are not a minority why haven't you taken more of the island? Why can't you stand on your own two feet like your "equal" neighbours in the ROC without being propped up by Turkey?

Incidently Greece is a minority in the EU but nobody forced that country to join or else, she did it of her own free will. Greece does not have equal representation in all the administrative components of the EU as the larger States.

[zan]

The 1960 Constitution

What you posted is not the 1960 constitution, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is just some Turkish propaganda.

Nowhere in the constitution you will find that TC have a separate right for self-determination or any of the other crap in your propaganda quote.

The means by which the Constitution gave effect to the agreement were fourfold; political, legal, administrative, and military. The President was to be a Greek-Cypriot and the Vice-President a Turkish-Cypriot. Legislative authority was vested in a House of Representatives, of whom 70% would be Greek-Cypriots and 30% Turkish-Cypriots, but legislation was subject to the veto of the President and / or Vice-President in certain specified circumstances. Moreover, legislation relating to certain matters of sensitivity as between the two communities required a separate majority of the representatives from each community.

The interpretation and enforcement of the Constitution was entrusted to a Supreme Constitutional Court, which consisted of three judges, a Greek-Cypriot, a Turkish-Cypriot and a neutral as President of the Court. The Council of Ministers was to consist of seven Greek-Cypriots and three Turkish-Cypriots. The Civil Service was to consist of 70% Greek-Cypriots and 30% Turkish-Cypriots. Further, by Article 173 (1) it was provided that separate municipalities were to be established in the five largest towns, subject to transitional provisions and to review within four years.

Underpinning the Constitution were the armed forces of the Republic and, in the last resort, the three Guarantor Powers. By Article 129 it was provided that the Army should consist of 2,000 men of whom (subject to transitional provisions) 70% would be Greek-Cypriots and 30% would be Turkish-Cypriots. The strength of the Police and Gendarmerie could be varied, but only with the agreement of the Vice-President.

70% > (greater than) 30%
Being able to to stop ANY decision > (greater than) Right to veto certain decisions.

So again, yes you can claim that TCs got more than what proportionately belonged to them (30% instead of 18% in certain things, and veto powers in certain issues), but not that the 18% was equated with the 82%. This simply was not the case.

The constitution was signed sealed and delivered. You can bleat all you like but with that signing the Cyprus Republic was born, not this illegal "RoC".

[Piratis]

RoC is perfectly legal. It is a UN and EU member as well. What is illegal is the Turkish occupation and your pseudo state.

[zan]

RoC is perfectly legal. It is a UN and EU member as well. What is illegal is the Turkish occupation and your pseudo state.

Did you have your tongue stuck out when you wrote that. Na na na na na !

I hope that you can say the same thing when we get recognition. WHAT! The UN and EU said it. Whats your beef.

You know like when the USA was helping you and they were your best friend and now they are helping us they are the scum of the earth to you.