Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Some of you have agreed that the Turkish intervention was legal but the continued "occupation" is not. Can we have a date on when Turkey should have given the island back to the legal government of Cyprus?

I for one NEVER agreed that Turkey had/has ANY rights to Cyprus and I have the evidence to prove it which I won't use now because this is "court" material.

I challenge ALL Cypriots to FIRST PROVE that Turkey HAD/HAS ANY RIGHTS to Cyprus before answering your question.

Before you can challenfge anything - let's hear what rights Greece has to Cyprus! Screw court material, speak only when you have proof, not without any hard matrial to substantiate stupid claims!

As they say, I'll see you in "court" BigOz...

PS: Feel free to bring up the issue of Greece's "rights to Cyprus" as a justification to anything. It'll be fun.

[Get Real!]

What kind of a perfectly legal Cypriot government are you referring to when only few days before Nikos Sampson was the president, and the EOKA supporting mainland Greek army's presence nearing 100,000 at the time was still there!

I pray for your community that they do not select you to represent them.

[bigOz]

Some of you have agreed that the Turkish intervention was legal but the continued "occupation" is not. Can we have a date on when Turkey should have given the island back to the legal government of Cyprus?

I for one NEVER agreed that Turkey had/has ANY rights to Cyprus and I have the evidence to prove it which I won't use now because this is "court" material.

I challenge ALL Cypriots to FIRST PROVE that Turkey HAD/HAS ANY RIGHTS to Cyprus before answering your question.

Before you can challenfge anything - let's hear what rights Greece has to Cyprus! Screw court material, speak only when you have proof, not without any hard matrial to substantiate stupid claims!

As they say, I'll see you in "court" BigOz...

PS: Feel free to bring up the issue of Greece's "rights to Cyprus" as a justification to anything. It'll be fun.

Now I am really scared - bravo re Get Real! Now you've got the whole of TCs shaking in their boots!

[cypezokyli]

What a load of b***ocks! Are you for real, or another brain dead GC? What kind of a perfectly legal Cypriot government are you referring to when only few days before Nikos Sampson was the president, and the EOKA supporting mainland Greek army's presence nearing 100,000 at the time was still there!

i dont know from where you get these numbers
look, the constitutional order was restored a couple of day after the invasion. what do you want me to do ?

Who was to stop EOKA regaining power in Cyprus immediately after such a quick withdrawal, who had effectively killed all GC armed resistance with Turkish forces clearing the rest - who were left alone by the fleeing cowards of the EOKA?

you are obviously not familiar of gc internal politics.
firstly the coupists (which with your limited knoweldge you refer as eoka), did not kill all GC armed resistance.

second makarios had numerous armed supporters, who he himself armed, bc he already saw the danger coming from these people.

third from the evidence we have, a gc high ranking army official was planning a counter - coup, with a whole battalion (i am not sure if this is the correct military term)

If Turkey did not intervene, probably most of you taking part in this forum would not have been around to write such comical posts because EOKA would have probably succedded in killing another 100,000 Greek and Turkish Cypriots alike, before ruling the island with Nikos Sampson as the president, under a fascist dictatorship. No one in UN or Europe was slightly interested in internvening at the time!

first of all i hope you realise how rediculous you sound when you are reffering to the turkish army as "saviors against fascist dictatorship" .
they have made up to now 5 military coups with the latest one just a month ago.... so please.... these "democratic feelings" of the army leave it for the fairy tails


second , your alleged predictions that "eoka" would kill 100000s of gc and tc are baseless because : 1. denktash informed the tcs after the coup, through the tc radio station that they have nothing to fear , this is between gcs.... and it was .... 2. no tc was killed in the week the coup lasted 3. when grivas returned to cyprus to create eoka b, the greek junta gave assurances to the turkish junta that not a single nose of a tc will bleed. you know what ? it didnt... you know what ? turkey , which was threatening with invasion in 1967 unless grivas left, they accepted his return..... eoka b only attacked pro-makarios supporters...

i hope the fact how nationalists perfectly cooperate and communicate, does strike you.

thats why for me you are no different from totis or nikiphoros.

[bigOz]

cypezokyli, you must be the most naive person in this forum to write what you do! You may feel what you like of me but I believe you are more dangerous than anyone else as a threat to Cyprus and Cypriots- do you know why? Because with Totis and Nikiphoros, they speak out what they believe in, and we all know where they stand or where their political views lie. The likes of you are playing what they call in gambling "each-way"!

You want to look the democratic part by talking about what may have happened in another country but in heart you are really just as crude a dictator as any fascist can be! You would never stand any idea opposing your fixed, deeply implemented views, but will be flexible in your outspoken views to give a more democratic / civilised impression. You do not fool me in the slightest! I know about GC politics so much so that I know tehere are a lot like you existing in its infrastructure!

Your futile talk about Turkish military coups is absolute rubbish. Every coup by the Turkish military stopped civilian bloodshed encouraged by terrorists or extreme factions some of which were financed / helped by foreign powers. Every coup led to a very brief policing period before the government was returned to civilian rule.

A country like Turkey that has some members with diverse and extreme religious or political affiliations needs an army led by well educated generals who can keep an eye on things. If it were not for that, there would have been another Iraq or Iran rigt next to EU borders, that would have made the problems of today in the Middle East, like an episode of the cartoon "Captain Popeye".

[zan]

Source:
Stephen, Michael. 1987
Turkey's Response, and the Treaty of Guarantee
Five days after the overthrow of Makarios, and one day after his speech to the UN, the Turkish Government (at that time a Social Democrat Government), acted against the Greek invasion, and landed troops in the North of the island. The Greeks and Greek-Cypriots argue that the Turkish military action and subsequent presence is illegal. The Turks and Turkish-Cypriots say it is legal.
By Article 1 on the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee the Republic of Cyprus had agreed:
(a) to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity and security, (b) to ensure the maintenance of respect for its Constitution, and (c) not to participate in any political or economic union with any State. Further, the Republic declared prohibited any activity likely to promote, directly or indirectly, either union with any other State or partition of the Island.
By Article II it was agreed that the Guarantor powers would:
(a) recognise and guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic, (b) recognise and guarantee the state of affairs established by the Basic Articles of its Constitution, and (c) prohibit, so far as concerned them, any activity aimed at promoting, directly or indirectly, either union of Cyprus with any other State or partition of the island.
Finally, by Article IV it was agreed that in the event of a breach of the provisions of the Treaty the Guarantor powers: (a) would consult together with respect to representations or measures necessary to ensure observance of those provisions, and (b) reserved the right, insofar as common or concerted action might not prove possible, to take action with the sole aim of re-establishing the state of affairs created by the Treaty.
As at 20th July 1974 the "Republic of Cyprus" had quite clearly failed to maintain its independenceterritorial integrity, or security, and had failed to maintain respect for its Constitution, as required by Article I of the Treaty. In particular it had failed to maintain respect for the Human Rights of its people recognised by and embodied in the Constitution. Further, Greece was itself in gross and obvious breach of Article II of the Treaty and accordingly, as required by Article IV, the United Kingdom and Turkey consulted together in London on 17th and 18th July. Greece was invited, but declined to attend.,
The House of Commons Select Committee on Cyprus formed the view (HC 331 1975/76 para. 22), that during these consultations Turkey had proposed joint Anglo-Turkish action under the Treaty of Guarantee, and this was confirmed by Prime Minister Ecevit on 14th August 1974 (Daily Telegraph 15th August). However the Labour Government in Britain refused to take any effective action, even though they had troops and aircraft in the Sovereign Bases in Cyprus. They argued that Britain was under no duty to take military action, but Article II provided that Britain would guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic, which it manifestly failed to do. The Select Committee concluded that "Britain had a legal right to intervene, she had a moral obligation to intervene. She did not intervene for reasons which the Government refuses to give."
The responsibility therefore fell upon Turkey, as the only Guarantor willing to act, and on 20th July Turkish forces landed in Cyprus. The legal authority for their action rests not only upon the breaches of the Treaty identified here, but also upon the breaches committed before 1974 by the Republic of Cyprus at the instance of the Greek-Cypriots, and which have already been mentioned.
Violence Continues

[denizaksulu]

I am wandering with this fictional court case coming up, if there is any tampering / influencing of witnesses going on? GR will you look into this? or am I asking the wrong person?

[iceman]

As at 20th July 1974 the "Republic of Cyprus" had quite clearly failed to maintain its independenceterritorial integrity, or security, and had failed to maintain respect for its Constitution, as required by Article I of the Treaty. In particular it had failed to maintain respect for the Human Rights of its people recognised by and embodied in the Constitution. Further, Greece was itself in gross and obvious breach of Article II of the Treaty and accordingly, as required by Article IV, the United Kingdom and Turkey consulted together in London on 17th and 18th July. Greece was invited, but declined to attend.,

The ROC failed to maintain respect for its Constitution, as required by Article I of the Treaty. In particular it had failed to maintain respect for the Human Rights of its people recognised by and embodied in the Constitution
back in 1963 NOT 1974!!

[zan]

As at 20th July 1974 the "Republic of Cyprus" had quite clearly failed to maintain its independenceterritorial integrity, or security, and had failed to maintain respect for its Constitution, as required by Article I of the Treaty. In particular it had failed to maintain respect for the Human Rights of its people recognised by and embodied in the Constitution. Further, Greece was itself in gross and obvious breach of Article II of the Treaty and accordingly, as required by Article IV, the United Kingdom and Turkey consulted together in London on 17th and 18th July. Greece was invited, but declined to attend.,

The ROC failed to maintain respect for its Constitution, as required by Article I of the Treaty. In particular it had failed to maintain respect for the Human Rights of its people recognised by and embodied in the Constitution
back in 1963 NOT 1974!!

Abso-bloody-lootly! 1963-2007 not a single break between.


Come on guys....You wanted a discussion so here it is. Lets pull this statement apart. Anyone??????

[Viewpoint]

As at 20th July 1974 the "Republic of Cyprus" had quite clearly failed to maintain its independenceterritorial integrity, or security, and had failed to maintain respect for its Constitution, as required by Article I of the Treaty. In particular it had failed to maintain respect for the Human Rights of its people recognised by and embodied in the Constitution. Further, Greece was itself in gross and obvious breach of Article II of the Treaty and accordingly, as required by Article IV, the United Kingdom and Turkey consulted together in London on 17th and 18th July. Greece was invited, but declined to attend.,

The ROC failed to maintain respect for its Constitution, as required by Article I of the Treaty. In particular it had failed to maintain respect for the Human Rights of its people recognised by and embodied in the Constitution
back in 1963 NOT 1974!!

What had changed in 1974? the coup was the last drop and Turkey had every right to intervene and restore order which we have been unable to agree even via referendum.