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One man one vote or political equality?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

One man one vote or political equality

Political Equality
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One man one vote
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Total votes : 12

Postby insan » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:14 pm

In reality, the Greek Cypriot community was numerically much larger than the Turkish Cypriot community (80:18). Equal representation and participation in a bi - communal form of government would be undemocratic. Such “equality” would be an intolerable inequity at the expense of the majority.



This paper sets out to analyse the nature of bi - communal representation (communalism) as it manifested itself in Cyprus in the hope that a deeper understanding of the nature of the system will provide a useful contribution to those seeking a more viable solution of the Cyprus problem.



Undoubtedly the Ottoman occupation was the “unhappiest and least prosperous for Cyprus”.[19] Apart from natural catastrophes (locusts, plague, droughts) the growing corruption and exploitation by the Turkish officials caused many Orthodox Greek Cypriots to flee abroad, to the Peloponnese, to Asia Minor and to Egypt where they set up large communities.[20] Despite these oppressive stratagems, despite the creation of refugees, the Orthodox Greek Cypriots not only remained the majority community on the island but also retained their awareness as a social group (an ethnos) distinct from that of the Moslem Turkish Cypriots.

To this sense of a distinctive Hellenic Orthodox ethnos and culture was added a nationalist dimension which grew in intensity over the period from the eighteenth to the twentieth century. This in turn was to bring about “the eventual collision of two opposing nationalist movements in the case of the bi-national society of Cyprus”.[21




Neo-Hellenic nationalism, a product of the long term exposure of Greek communities of the Ottoman Empire to European intellectual and political influences, was initially stimulated by the individual liberalism of the eighteenth century Enlightenment and the impact of the French revolutionary and Napoleonic wars.[22] But the decisive ideological formulation of Greek nationalism was to take a militant conservative trend, especially with the acceptance of the Orthodox Church as “the guardian of spiritual and national unity”.[23] The ethnos was deemed more important than the individual and great emphasis was placed on the ethnological and cultural continuity into which pagan classicism was incorporated. However, the critical questioning dimension inherent in classicism was displaced by “the ideology of ancestral worship that sustained the modern Greek claim to glory”.[24] Out of this emerged an intolerant sense of self-sufficiency and self-confidence that found its political manifestation in the Great Idea.




Greece’s destiny, its irredentist civilising mission in the East would be at the expense of the Ottoman Empire. Traditional anti - Turkish sentiments and symbolism were integral to the Great Idea as part of the process of converting the unredeemed Greeks of the periphery to the values of the Great Idea.




In part this would be accomplished through education (the establishment of schools, provision of teachers and educational materials) and the creation of a network of political and cultural ties with Greece. It was also to be reinforced by the emigration of Greek subjects to various parts of the Ottoman Empire, to Russia and to America throughout the nineteenth century. Greece’s expansion throughout this period (1830 - 1922) at the expense of the Ottoman state was liberationist ; it was never imperialistic. In this sense, while for Greece itself the Great Idea served a conservative social function, the Great Idea for the unredeemed Greeks represented, apart from national glory, “a redemption from arbitrary and autocratic rule” and “a concrete aspiration for political order and material progress under the aegis of a national entity with which they could identify symbolically and socially”.[25]

Greek nationalism had its hesitant beginnings in Cyprus at the end of the eighteenth century at a time when there was emerging a commercial merchant class along with a tax-farming class.[26] A small segment of Cypriot society became sensitive to Greek nationalist influences penetrating the island in the first two decades of the nineteenth century. No fully - fledged mass nationalist movement was evident in Cyprus during the last fifty years of Ottoman rule, but there is more than ample evidence to support the British Consular Report of 1866 that “the townspeople (of Cyprus) had become inculcated by the Hellenic Idea”.[27]








This nationalist orientation spread from prelates and notables to the mass of the Greek Cypriot population. The Greek Orthodox Church was the irredentist nationalist movement’s foremost exponent through its maintenance and control of education. The increase in literacy meant the spread of nationalist ideology, the social and national indoctrination of the younger generations. Moreover, Greek Cypriot students attended secondary schooling in Greece and to these were added later students at the University of Athens. Teachers from Greece staffed Cypriot schools especially in the decades before and after the British occupation in 1878. These efforts were reinforced by the assistance of organisations specifically structured to promote Greek Cypriot nationalism.[28] The whole structure to promote neo-Hellenic nationalism in Cyprus operated openly and more freely after the British occupation.





When the British occupied Cyprus, first as administrators in accordance with the Anglo - Ottoman agreement, and later as colonisers with the island’s annexation during World War I and the formalisation of this action in the Treaty of Lausanne (1923), they established a system specifically designed to provide for communal representation in a Legislative Council by which the official members of the Council in conjunction with the Turkish Cypriot representatives could always balance out the Greek representatives. The Governor had the casting vote. They thus perpetuated and institutionalised a system of communal division.[29] Indeed as L.S. Amery of the Colonial Office admitted, the Constitution of 1925 had purposely given a disproportionate leverage to the Moslem minority as a safeguard against the movement for enosis, an undemocratic system which re - assured the “Old Turkish Party”, the Turkish Cypriot ruling elite, the non - Moslem majority would not be able to impose its will on them.[30] The Turkish Cypriot leadership of the inter - war years described this system of government as a “bulwark against racial and religious oppression.[31]




Yet cooperation and peaceful coexistence between the two major communities, while possible, had their limitations. As Mehmet Rifat Effendi, the owner-editor of the Turkish newspaper Masum Millet (Innocent Nation) pointed out: “With the exception of their (the Greek Cypriots’) national aspiration, everything detrimental to us is also detrimental to them. From the present poverty of our country both brother elements are affected”.[32]

Moreover, besides keeping open the traditional division between the Turkish Moslem and the Greek Christian sections of Cypriot society, the constitutional structure imbued the Moslem members of the Legislative Council with the idea that their support of Government measures entitled them and their coreligionists to special treatment
.[33]






Nothing has changed... The mentality is the same mentality. "TCs are the descendants of opressor, barbarian Ottoman colonialists.", moreover, "TCs constitute %18 of the population in Cyprus, therefore they are nothing more than a minority."


http://www.paseka.org/index4.htm



TCs well know that there are so many idiots who desperately look out for the most convenientcircumstances to achieve their long awaited goal. TCs well know how deep is your wounds because of the Asia Minor, Ottoman Rule and events of 1974. And TCs well know how Hellenic Ruling Elite abused the facts in order to keep the hatred alive in hearts and souls of vast majority of "ordinary" Hellenes.... "You'll never forget."... We know...
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Postby insan » Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:53 pm

I would hope that a "solution" in Cyprus would give the following :

Each man is treated the same, regardless of community.
Each man has the same rights, regardless of community.
Each man has one vote, regardless of community.


BigDutch, I would hope, exactly what you hoped too. But it seems to me impossible in Cyprus when the social and political relations of two communities examined, retrospectively.


So why don't we acknowledge the permemnant existence of two politically equal communities respectively, GCs and TCs?

Acknowledging the existence of two major communities of Cyprus as two politically equal state partner is not an obstacle before a fair and viable reunification.

It's all about respecting the seperate majority will of each communities...

The two constituent states will be represented in the House in proportion to their population, though no state will hold less than 25 per cent of the seats. Of the 48 seats, 36 will go to the Greek Cypriot state and the rest to the Turkish Cypriots. Decisions will be taken by simple majority.

Representation in the Senate will be based on the political equality of the two sides; each constituent state will have 24 seats. There will be two decision-making procedures according to the matter on the agenda.

Simple Majority: Standard decisions will be taken by simple majority of the Senators present and voting, including a quarter of the senators from each constituent state who are present and voting.

Special Majority: Certain issues will need a special majority of at least two-fifths (10) of the Senators from each constituent state. Such issues will include the approval of the federal budget and the election of the Presidential Council, as well as a series of issues concerning the vital interests of the two constituent states.


The Annan plan states that laws be enacted by a majority vote in each of the houses as long as at least one-fourth of the senators from each of the two component states comprise the majority vote in the Senate.

The Annan Plan also states that at least 1/4 of the seats of senate will permenantly allocated for TCs. This means, in course of time as a consequence of resettlement, the ratio between the GC and TC senators would become 12TC/36GC. Most probably 1 or two of the 12 TCs would come from GC constituent state and the rest from TC constituent state. 23 GC senators would come from GC state and the other 13 from TC constituent state.

Instead of reducing the number of TC senators in Senate, I propose preserving the number of TC and GC senators, permenantly on 24/24 basis.


Why?

One of the main concerns of TC community is the risk of becoming an ineffective minority in their so-called constituent state.

This does not mean the political rights of GC residence of TC constituent state will be violated or they will be discouraged in order not to return or settle down in TC constituent state. To the contrary of this the return of GC refugees must be encouraged and their full political rights given.


But the relevant provisions of Annan Plan should be ammended. The number of TC senators in Senate shall not be reduced.

Let's suppose that after the return of refugees and new settlements, the population ratio of two communities in each constituent state have become as follows:

TC constituent state: 200k TCs/ 70k GCs(Approx. %33 of TC population of TC constituent state as it was envisaged in Annan Plan.)
GC constituent state: 800k GCs/ 50k TCs.


In a case like this; the senate should compose as follows:

24 TC senators >> 20 From TC constituent state + 4 from GC constituent state

24 GC senators>> 20 From GC constituent state + 4 from TC constituent state


Thus, both the concerns of TCs becoming an ineffective minority and full political rights problem of the GC residents of TC constituent state would have been resolved.

As I said it's all about respecting the majority will of each communities, respectively...
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Postby insan » Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:37 pm

Some questions to those who believe "poltical equality" of two communities is not fair. First of all the "political eaquality" that was envisaged in Annan Plan was not an absolute political equality of two communities. Even it would be a temporary "political equality". Moreover, GC residents of TC constituent state hardly would get their full political rights because of the TC concerns becoming an ineffective minority in their constituent state.



I'm asking to you:


- If at least 1/4 or 1/5 of TCs haven't voted in favour of a bill; doesn't that mean there has been really a problem with that bill?

- If at least 1/2 plus TC senators haven't voted in favour of a bill; doesn't that mean there has been really a problem with that bill?

- If no permenant restrictions have been put on right to settlement; doesn't that mean the senators ratio in Senate soon will become 12TCs/36GCs? Thus, 1/4 of the TC senators will be reduced from 6 to 3. Is it fair?

Furthermore the relevant provision of Annan Plan states that:

1. The federal Parliament composed of two chambers, the Senate and the Chamber of Deputies, shall exercise the legislative power:

b. Decisions of Parliament shall require the approval of both Chambers by simple majority, including one quarter of voting Senators from each constituent state. For specified matters, a special majority of two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state shall be required.



As it is seen, it states that "... simple majority, including one quarter of voting Senators from each constituent state. For specified matters, a special majority of two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state shall be required to pass the bills from Senate. It does not state that in addition to simple majority of sittin senators, at least 1/4 or 1/5 of TC Senators approval is required tp pass a bill. If no permenant restrictions put on right to settlement, for instance %33 as it was proposed in the Annan Plan; besides if the relevant articles of Annan Plan have not been ammended to permenantly preserve 24 seats for TCs in Senate; TC community would soon have faced with the risk of becoming an ineffective minority, dependent to mercy of GC ruling elite.
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Postby insan » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:40 pm

Noone has any idea?
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Postby -mikkie2- » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:52 am

Insan,

If you want political equality amongst the two communities in the way you envisage, then the only fair way is to allow more GC's to be able to return under GC control. The end result is that the TC's would have to hand back more land to the GC's. That way far fewer GC's would come under TC control and thus it would be more palatable for the GC's to have some settlement restrictions in the TC state.

Wouldn't that be more fair? Would the TC's accept this compromise in order to secure their perceived need for bizonality?

Perhaps this is the way out of the deadlock.
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Postby insan » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:18 am

Insan,

If you want political equality amongst the two communities in the way you envisage, then the only fair way is to allow more GC's to be able to return under GC control. The end result is that the TC's would have to hand back more land to the GC's. That way far fewer GC's would come under TC control and thus it would be more palatable for the GC's to have some settlement restrictions in the TC state.

Wouldn't that be more fair?


Mikkie, it seems more fair but with this way, wouldn't we have almost closed particularly the Northern coastlines and all other ancestral allocation units to GCs(refugee or non refugee) settlement. Is it fair?

Anyhow, for me, as I stated above; the main point here is not to not to allow %33 of GCs to return or settle down(for non-refugees) in TC administered constituent state. The issue is how could we allow refugee or non refugee GCs up to %33 of the TC population of TC constituent state to return or settle down in TC administered area; in the mean time how we could preserve the "political equality" in Senate on 24TCs/24GCs basis...


Would the TC's accept this compromise in order to secure their perceived need for bizonality?


I guess, most probably they would but would it be a genuine reunification to create almost two ethnically pure constituent states?

Perhaps this is the way out of the deadlock.


Perhaps.. but I didn't like the idea of two ethnically almost pure constituent states idea... In my opinion TC community has nothing to loose by returning the land that does not percentagely belong to them. In the end, it seems to me that most of the refugees and non-refugges would have lost the chance to return or settle down to the places that would be administered by TCs...
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Postby pantelis » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:09 am

Insan,
If numbers don't matter, why then the systematic increase of the Turkish element in the north with the importation of settlers and "seasonal workers", while there is high unemployment and poverty due to the "embargo" and "isolation"?
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Postby Piratis » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:44 pm

Pantelis, I got tired with such outrageous demands from TCs.

Numbers of course matter. If numbers didn't matter then democracy would have no difference between monarchy or oligarchy.

And I am asking:

1) If "TRNC" was recognized, would the TCs give to the minority of GCs that continue to live in "TRNC" the privileges that demand from us?

2) Do TCs that are citizens of other countries (say UK or US) have such demands from those countries?

The answer in both questions is "No".

So why the TCs are asking for such outrageous things from us, when they do not apply them in their own "state"? They do that because they have been convinced by Turkey and Denctash that GCs want to dominate them and that such outrageous things are achievable and for their interest.

Sure, making TCs supercitizens is good for TCs. Who wouldn't want to be a supercitizen?

The problem is that that such outrageous demand is not achievable. It will NEVER be achievable. It is just the fake dream that Turkey created in the brains of TCs. This way Turkey knows that no real solution will be found, and therefore her troops can remain in Cyprus (which is what she cares about, and not for TCs)

The Annan plan referendum came by Turkey and allies for the exact same reason. Our expected EU entry made some TCs to start realize that their dream was really just a dream, and they started to revolt against Denctash (who until then was the one that Turkey appointed as the TC leader) Didn't Turkey and allies know that such outrageous plan would be rejected from GCs? Of course they did*(see note) Then why did they bring it to a referendum? They did this so they will reinforce the dream of TCs that their "dream" is achievable and that they should blame GCs and not Turkey for the non-solution.

At the end of the day they achieved what they wanted. Turkey changed mask (from the Denctash mask to the Talad mask) so she will continue to be likable by the majority of TCs, and the TCs now blame the GCs for the non-solution.
Add to that some million dollars and several promises, and what you have is an enforced dream, that will ensure that no solution will be found in the near future, and that both TCs and GCs will be worst off.

--------------------------

* They knew that GCs would reject the Annan plan, but they had some slight hopes that they could force us to accept it. If they achieved that, not only they would solve their problem with TCs, but they would also destroy RoC and remove a big obstacle from their EU accession. This means that the Annan plan solved only 1 of the 2 problems for Turkey.

Actually the Annan plan was indeed a solution and would indeed solve the problems. The difference is that it was not the solution for Cyprus. It was the solution to the problems of Turkey.
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Postby insan » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:54 pm

Insan,
If numbers don't matter, why then the systematic increase of the Turkish element in the north with the importation of settlers and "seasonal workers", while there is high unemployment and poverty due to the "embargo" and "isolation"?



In my opinion, there are so many reasons of this importation of settlers, Pantelis..



After the events of 1974, TC community were in a traumatic mental distress because of the many years lasted depressive intercommunal violence and relocation. In this state of mind, it was impossible for TC community to cure its mental wounds on the one hand and work hard to create an economic system in North, on the other hand. TC community had to start from scratch.

One of the primary reason of importation of settlers afterwards the intervention of 1974 is this.

Vast majority of the mainland "Turks" which had been brought in the first 3-4 years, afterwards 1974 were from Black Sea and South Eastern Anatloia region and almost all of them were low educated villagers. They even couldn't speak Turkish properly. They spoke half with their regional Turkish accent and half with their own ethnic language. It is obvious that they weren't brought to North in order to assimilate TCs linguistically or nationalicticaly. They weren't citizens of KTFD, therefore they had no voting rights, yet. The GC properties, temporarily were given to them. Shortly to say, they also weren't brought for political exploitation. But they had one quality that neither of the TCs had it in a battle fatique. They were all hard working people.


Afterwards the intervention of 1974, almost all efforts to reach a permenant solution in Cyprus, failed. Almost 9 years had passed since 1974 but no solution had been found, yet. During Kyprianou's(The successor of Makarios) term of office, the signals coming from Hellenic side still, strongly was giving the same message: "We don't accept a federation based upon ethnic origin, TC community is nothing more than a minority."


Thenceforth, Turkish ruling elite decided to declare TRNC in order both to open door for recognition as a seperate state and keep negotiating on the basis of their own federation thesis to finsd a solution to Cyprus problem. The most frustrating disappointment came in 1987 when Denktash, by force of Ozal government went to Newyork to sign the UN draft framework but signing the UN draft framework rejected by Kyprianou.


Afterward of this big disappointment, Turkish ruling elite had lost almost all hopes concerning a solution to Cyprus problem. So many new decisions were taken in TRNC and Turkish parliament simultaneously. Most of the existing settlers were given citizenship by naturalization and the title deeds of the properties/lands they were given temporarily.


The first political and economical abuse of settlers aroused in late 80s and grew like an avalanche. The leading man of this abuse was the successor of Denktash: Eroglu. This avalanche of settlers, ran over and oppressed so many TCs to flee other countries.


If a solution had been reached until mid-80s, all settlers would have been repatriated because none of them had stroken root in the North, yet. None of the sttlers were given citizenship and title deeds of the properties they had been occupying.


If no settlers have been brought, the necessary measures have been taken in order to keep TCs satisfied in North and if the correct policies have been followed from 1974 until now; pure TC population of North would have been no less than the present mixed population of North.

In my opinion, the "Turkish" elements in North have never been the "Turkish" elements as you consider. Kurdish and Laz origin "Turkish" elements have largely assimilated into TC elements in 10-15 years time passed from their arrival. Their Cyprus born children bear allmost the same identity as the new generation of TCs have.

The settlers that haven't been assimilated yet are those who came afterwards mid-90s. Most of them are not citizens of TRNC, anyway.
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