Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

The Annan plan would gift our land to the theives of your kind, thats why we said no, as it was our right to do so. What is NOT your right is to keep our land under occupation. Remove your troops out of our country immediatedly in order to end the war that you started against us [/size]by invading our country in 1974. We are not going to sign any capitulation agreements if thats what you are hoping for.

If you have land in the free areas of Cyprus you are free to take it back the day you give us back what you stole from us. Why you do not accept this? I am not the one who wants to keep your land, you are the one who wants to keep mine.

Says mountains, is this the mentality you want to unite with? think long and hard...a war we started and we are thieves of our own country. Why werent you arguing for democracy and the human rights of the TCs in 1963 when our fathers and mothers were being killed and our homes were being burnt down....where were you when TCs were discriminated against and made into second class citizens??

Your answer:

First of all I have to make something very clear:

I believe that we should leave the past behind, we should forgive each other, stop all illegalities and move ahead with a united democratic country without racist discriminations and with respect to the human rights of all Cypriots.

Unfortunately I notice that there some people that insist on using a tiny and selective part of the past as an excuse for the continuation of illegalities and their demand for a "solution" that will be based on racist discrimination of people based on their ethnic background (which is something that exists in no democratic country in the world)

To those people Greek Cypriots deserved the violations of their human rights for the last 32 years and they deserve to be convicted for eternal violation of their human rights in a country that discriminates against them because of their race.

The fact is however that Turks in Cyprus have committed 100 times more crimes against Greek Cypriots than the other way around.

Greek Cypriots have been the majority on the island of Cyprus for 3000+ years. Their interaction with Turks starts in the 15th century, were the Turks attacked our island. This also answers the question "Who started it" for anybody that thinks that this is important:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.

So now it is clear how the interaction of Turks with Greek Cypriots started in Cyprus, and the question "Who started it" is answered as well.

What followed were 300 years of Ottoman rule in Cyprus. During these 3 centuries Greek Cypriots were oppressed second category citizens. They had to pay multiple times the taxes of muslims and their testimony in courts was not accepted. Whenever they tried to revolt against their oppressors they were slaughtered.

So here we have a period were Turks were oppressing and killing Greeks in Cyprus. The result of this period was 300 years of oppression against GCs and 10s of thousands of Greek Cypriots dead.

The next "round" of conflict between the two communities was at the end of the British rule in Cyprus, and then from 63 to 68. During this period extremists from both sides were committing crimes and atrocities.

This is the only period that TCs remember, but even here they remember only their own casualties and not the crimes that they had committed against GCs.

So this is a period were both sides had about an equal number of casualties, some 100s for each side.

Then in 1974 the illegal coupists overthrow our president and Turkey found the excuse to invade Cyprus. No TC was killed by the coupists before the invasion had started, but only after.
The result of the coup/invasion was 6000 GCs dead and 200.000 GCs ethnically cleansed. On the other side the TCs had only a couple of 100s of victims.

The next period is the 32 years of illegal occupation and insistence from Turkey to violate international law and human rights. This continues until today.

Conclusion:
1) The Turks "started it" in the 15th century
2) The Turks have committed much much more crimes against Greek Cypriots.
3) The Turks insist on their crimes today
4) Greek Cypriots have committed crimes as well, but only a tiny fraction of the crimes that the Turks have committed.

Still, Greek Cypriots are more than willing to put all these behind as long as we are not provoked by people that remember only the 1% of history that suits that in order to prove that Greek Cypriots are the evil people that deserve even more crimes against them.

Therefore I ask from people on this forum to either:

1) Leave the past behind. Do not try to excuse crimes and illegalities in 2006 with events that happened in the past. Concentrate on how we can find a solution that will respect all Cypriots equally without racist discriminations and human right violations.

Or, if doing (1) is impossible for you then at least:

2) If you believe that the past should be used to determine who is the "good" and who is the "bad" one and that this should be the basis of solving the Cyprus problem (instead of democracy, human rights and legality, that I propose) then at least use the whole history and not the tiny bits that suit you.

[Bananiot]

So you missed me Get Real, the feeling is mutual! Honestly.

[zan]

The acoustics were out of this world. The singer was a young lady who once represented Denmark at the Eurovision Song contest and suffered depression after she came in last! Great voice though.

Is that true Another reason to stop that rediculous contest. I love churches. I always hoped to have one as my house. I had a chance to but one but it was very small. More like a tiny chapel really. The idea of putting on a George Benson album and chilling out in the middle of the room......Well, ....who needs drugs.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis has difficulty swallowing anyting positive that happens in the TRNC, reality will stare him in the face until the day he dies but he will go happy believing white is black.

[zan]

Piratis has difficulty swallowing anyting positive that happens in the TRNC, reality will stare him in the face until the day he dies but he will go happy believing white is black.

I have enough of him for one evening VP let him stew for a while. He has to earn his money you know. The job of chief propaganda machine must pay well. Did you see his post on what he has got I wonder if he is into real estate too???

[denizaksulu]

Piratis, the tens of thousands of poor dead GC'c, do they include the ones killed by EokaB and the Greek army? You like giving figures, please enlighten us. Thats a good boy.

[Sotos]

denizaksulu, if you read the post of piratis above you will get your answer

1) The Turks "started it" in the 15th century
2) The Turks have committed much much more crimes against Greek Cypriots.
3) The Turks insist on their crimes today
4) Greek Cypriots have committed crimes as well, but only a tiny fraction of the crimes that the Turks have committed.

[denizaksulu]

Sotos and Piratis have selective memories or readings. It was a known fact that pirates from Cyprus with the help of Maltes corsairs and the Knights of Malta were constantly raiding Muslim territories in the levant. It is quite puerile to drag medieval warfare into the equation. Why dont you stick to contemporary times. The oppression of the Cypriot peoples after the conquest was done by the Greek Orthodox Church. It was the churches responsibility to collect the taxes and pass them on to Konstantinniye. What happened was that the Orthodox church got richer at the expense of the local population. If the Ottomans plundered Cyprus so badly how did the church get so rich. Yuz verirsin eshege, cikar sicar doshege. Please dont pick and choose what suits you best.

[zan]

Did I say a great big "Hos geldin be kardesim" to you yet?????

[Piratis]

So denizaksulu, the Turks invaded Cyprus and killed 10s of thousands of people and then oppressed us for 3 centuries because of what? Cypriot pirates?

Here is how it all started with the Turks in Cyprus:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

So enough with your excuses. Cyprus has been and continues to be the victim of the Turkish aggression and expansionism.