Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Well done

[alexISS]

Thanks for that Murataga. That is not the article I posted a while back but it just goes o show how little people know about their own country. It makes the statement quite clearly but I am sure that alexISS will dispute that and still try o divert attention away from it but..................

Trust me, I know my country's problems. I know how Albanians in particular fall victims to racist behaviour, I will elaborate on this issue later on. However there are Pakistanis, Indians, Iraqis and many others living in Greece and have no problem, their only serious complaint is the lack of a Mosque in Athens that is being built as we speak. Considering that this situation is relatively new to the Greek people since mass immigration to Greece only started 15 years ago, Greeks do a good job in accepting these people.

Albanians are a different case, though. When Greece opened her borders to immigrants 17 years ago, she did so without applying any security checks, anyone would cross the border without problems. The Albanian government decided it was a good chance to empty their prisons and send the inmates to Greece instead of feeding them. Greece was flooded with imported criminals, there were daily news stories about murders commited by Albanians, even in remote small villages that had no criminality at all. It was the worst start we could have, the Greek people saw all Albanians as criminals and hate towards them came as a natural consequence. You can search Google about the Albanian mafia in Greece, you'll get thousands of hits. Of course the honest, hard working majority of Albanian immigrants gets discriminated as a result, but you just can't convince old villagers who have been robbed by Albanians (two of my relatives included) that all Albanians are not criminal. The glass is broken.

But that type of racism is not aggresive, it's a more "defencive" fear than anything. People will not just go out killing Albanians. That's where Greece is different when compared to Turkey. Turkish racism is aggresive, they protest in the streets burning flags and mock-ups of Bartholomeos or kill innocent people just because they are Christian...

alexISS as you have asked nicely, I will try to find that article and hope it finally satisfies you but I will not bank on it. You will have to wait until tonight though for when I get back from work.

It's not satisfaction I'm after, I'm just very interested in reading a report that ranks countries according to their "racism", I can't imagine how such a report could be made

[alexISS]

So even if we assume Greece is one of the worst in EU, say 22nd or 23rd out of the 25 (it didn't say the worst).

You mean out of the 27, right?

[DT.]

One of the reports says that the Greeks have a sense of superiority to others and you are giving us an example of that. You think your racism is better than our racism.

What are you talking about? You wrote about Greece being the no1 racist , "basket case" country without a reason at all and out of topic. What I did then was ask for the source of that claim, I did not post anything about racism in Turkey at that time. Then you, instead of providing this source, posted links to sites with irrelevant reports on racism in Greece, trying to prove what? I replied accordingly with reports on racism in Turkey and so I am giving the impression I feel superior to others? Are you out of your mind, if anyone is having a superiority complex it's you!

I love how Zan got figured out here

[Murataga]

Question: Which human rights groups?

Also, notice that this talks about EU. So even if we assume Greece is one of the worst in EU, say 22nd or 23rd out of the 25 (it didn't say the worst). And since EU is among the top regions in the world in terms of human rights, then the conclusion is that Greece is among the top 30-35 countries in the world.

On the other hand Turkey must be in position 100 and bellow.

So, nobody said that Greece is perfect or the top country in the world, but it is way way above Turkey. Thats the fact.

Of course that is one way of looking at it. Another is as following though: Greece is an EU member so they receive all the benefits that go along with it. That includes financial, political, education, cultural and etc. Not to mention their small population, practically homogenous Hellenic society until the 90s, and relatively negligible instability of their neighboring countries. So Greece is actually doing the worst among a group of countries that receive all these benefits and despite unique advantages pertaining to her geopolitics and sociological formation. So, I`ll let the readers decide how that interpretes.

[zan]

Question: Which human rights groups?

Also, notice that this talks about EU. So even if we assume Greece is one of the worst in EU, say 22nd or 23rd out of the 25 (it didn't say the worst). And since EU is among the top regions in the world in terms of human rights, then the conclusion is that Greece is among the top 30-35 countries in the world.

On the other hand Turkey must be in position 100 and bellow.

So, nobody said that Greece is perfect or the top country in the world, but it is way way above Turkey. Thats the fact.

Of course that is one way of looking at it. Another is as following though: Greece is an EU member so they receive all the benefits that go along with it. That includes financial, political, education, cultural and etc. Not to mention their small population, practically homogenous Hellenic society until the 90s, and relatively negligible instability of their neighboring countries. So Greece is actually doing the worst among a group of countries that receive all these benefits and despite unique advantages pertaining to her geopolitics and sociological formation. So, I`ll let the readers decide how that interpretes.

But as usual they have a way round it. Why bother to solve the problem?Lets just bend the rules.

The link is dead now but they used the income from prostitution to balance the books. The link read: "Greeces new found wealth raises eyebrows"

[alexISS]

Greece takes care of her problems just fine, that's why she is the only developed country in the undeveloped balkans. That's why she has triple the turkish GDP per capita, that's why Greeks are highly educated while 25% of turkish women are completely illiterate. That's why greeks live in a free democratic society while turks are oppressed by a dictatoric militaristic regime. So, you'd better concentrate on your own problems. Bombings and other terrorist attacks, hate crimes, honour killings, military coups... Plenty of stuff to work on. But no, you'd rather search for links on Greece adding prostitution and black market profits to her economic indexes as other countries like Italy do... But of course, you don't live in Turkey, instead you chose to settle in a western european country that ensures you have a quality of life your countrymen can only dream of, one that allows you to bash greece instead of worrying about what you'll eat tomorrow like people in eastern turkey do. Any luck on the link on racism?

[alexISS]

Also, notice that this talks about EU. So even if we assume Greece is one of the worst in EU, say 22nd or 23rd out of
Of course that is one way of looking at it. Another is as following though: Greece is an EU member so they receive all the benefits that go along with it. That includes financial, political, education, cultural and etc. Not to mention their small population, practically homogenous Hellenic society until the 90s, and relatively negligible instability of their neighboring countries. So Greece is actually doing the worst among a group of countries that receive all these benefits and despite unique advantages pertaining to her geopolitics and sociological formation. So, I`ll let the readers decide how that interpretes.

If you compare the way Greece treats foreigners with, for example, germany in the 60s, when immigration was as new as it is to greeks now, you'd find that we're doing ok. Also consider that our neighbours are not belgium or the netherlands or france, it's albania, fyrom, bulgaria and turkey... Most of the illegal immigrants are shipped to Greece by your slave merchant countrymen and the albanian mafia, of which i'm sure you've heard, is an issue like which no other eu countries have to deal with

[zan]

Greece takes care of her problems just fine, that's why she is the only developed country in the undeveloped balkans. That's why she has triple the turkish GDP per capita, that's why Greeks are highly educated while 25% of turkish women are completely illiterate. That's why greeks live in a free democratic society while turks are oppressed by a dictatoric militaristic regime. So, you'd better concentrate on your own problems. Bombings and other terrorist attacks, hate crimes, honour killings, military coups... Plenty of stuff to work on. But no, you'd rather search for links on Greece adding prostitution and black market profits to her economic indexes as other countries like Italy do... But of course, you don't live in Turkey, instead you chose to settle in a western european country that ensures you have a quality of life your countrymen can only dream of, one that allows you to bash greece instead of worrying about what you'll eat tomorrow like people in eastern turkey do. Any luck on the link on racism?

Sorry allexISS got a bit carried away today with the forum and lost track of time so did not look for the link. Will try again tomorrow if you still want.

I have to tell you that it was not my intention to bash Greece but to prove a point hat some people keep posting in a way that hints that the Greeks have got it ALL right and that the Turks have got it ALL wrong. The gap in between is not that great as far as I am concerned and that High Horse attitude really gets my goat. I have the same arguments with Miltiades about his attitude to the Middle East. I believe that you have gotten angry and are saying a lot of things that you would not say and I have to admit to the same. We all know that the Turks can be violent and the Greeks racist but I have no intention of branding races and never have done. I apologise twice. Once for my behavior recently and once for when the next shit comes on and tells me that the Greeks are a million times better than the Turks.

[alexISS]

Sorry allexISS got a bit carried away today with the forum and lost track of time so did not look for the link. Will try again tomorrow if you still want.

I do, not for the sake of arguing but because I'm just interested in reading it but, if you can't find it, never mind.

I have to tell you that it was not my intention to bash Greece but to prove a point hat some people keep posting in a way that hints that the Greeks have got it ALL right and that the Turks have got it ALL wrong.

From what I've read it was you who first mentioned Greece, and did so on "issues" that do not exist:

When Greece and the "RoC" do with their equal problems. Greece, with all the islands like Crete and Macedonia looking for settlement and the "RoC" with its TC problem and its recent history. The one word answer to your pathetic question is, I suppose, SOON I HOPE!

The gap in between is not that great as far as I am concerned and that High Horse attitude really gets my goat. I have the same arguments with Miltiades about his attitude to the Middle East.

If you look at both countries' financial, social and political indexes you'll find that the gap between Greece and Turkey is wider than, say, between Greece and Germany. And, at least the Greeks, consider the gap between Greece and Germany huge. That's not saying that the Greek people are "better" than the Turkish people! One would have to really be a bloody racist to say something like that, and I never did.

I believe that you have gotten angry and are saying a lot of things that you would not say and I have to admit to the same.

I was not angry. Well, maybe a little, but not because of the things you said, but because of the things you ignored. For example, I posted extensive replies admitting and elaborating on the racism problem in Greece (that you raised) but you just ignored them and chose to post generalizations again.

We all know that the Turks can be violent and the Greeks racist

and vice versa

but I have no intention of branding races and never have done. I apologise twice. Once for my behavior recently and once for when the next shit comes on and tells me that the Greeks are a million times better than the Turks.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no need for apologies. You have made some harsh comments but I wouldn't say they were offending, at least not to me