Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

The Greeks being hanged and decapicated on JUly 9,1821 is something i had not heard of.If this actually happened is it part of why GC always hated TC ?

That was just one small example of the Turkish atrocities against Greek Cypriots. When the Turks first came to Cyprus they butchered over 30.000 people, which was about half the population back then. Then 3 centuries of oppression followed where Greek Cypriots were second category people and events like the one above happened every few years.

Unfortunately however the end of the Ottoman rule in Cyprus didn't end the atrocities of Turks against Greek Cypriots. In 1974 they used the coup as an excuse to kill 6000 people and ethnically cleanse 200.000, and still until today they continue to illegally occupy our homeland.

So we didn't always hated TCs. Actually before we didn't even know what Turk meant, until the Turks started their crimes against us and they didn't stop since. Still, Greek Cypriots do not hate all TCs or Turks. Those that we hate are those that do not regret the crimes against us and they continue to support yet more crimes and illegalities. and even in the 21st century they do not care about international law and human rights.

My reasearch at this stage has involved talking to TC,reading posts on this sight,newspapers from both sides,reading some books by GC Yianis Papadakis ( Echoes from the dead zone ) and tony angastiniotis.Zan mentions the Arkitas plan and that the GC have done things and tried to cover them up.

So your "research" was just Turkish propaganda. The only GCs that you read are those very few of them that do not represent Greek Cypriots (some of which even employed by Turkey, like Angastiniotis).

To be honest at this stage although if i had evidence that no Turks were killed till after the coup Zan seems to have alittle more Intellectual Integrity then most of the GC on this thread.

I can see a lot of hate against GCs by you. No wonder that you only accept Turkish propaganda.

I have met many TC and there nature seems to be more peacful then the GC.The GC seem to be rude and are hard to communicate with it could be whats known as brainwashing the ones especially on the sight.

Apparently people are frustrated to talk with a brainwashed GC hater like you. No wonder they are rude. Did you show respect to them to receive respect back? Or you supported the illegalities and crimes against them?

Also in evidence about the killing of GC and the non killing of Tc would greatly help my efforts to understand.

Make your research and then you will find that in 1974 the TCs that were killed were after the invasion had started and they were much less than the amount of GCs killed.

[zan]

the only thing they can clearly see is the fact no country apart from israel is profiting from ethnic cleansing and let me tell you turkey ain't israel...

Sour grapes because it was not successful for your murdering hordes that tried to kill me and mine. You made the problem and now are trying to cover it up, along with more crimes on a daily basis, against our humanity and well being, by accusing us of profiteering. What have you been doing for over 40 years on an island that belongs to both of us. You shut the door in our faces and make all the money you can on property and tourism and now you want even more without a care for the TC people. As your leader Kifeas said. Those who want more than their fare share could end up with nothing.

Zan, do you actually belive what you are saying? I am a bit puzzled because I though you were a smart individual. We shut the door!!!
Well, I thought that Turkey chose to shut the doors for 30+ years or is it the GCs that partitioned the island? I do not want to get into the legal/illegal argument as you want be bothered again.
However, claiming that the GCs are benefiting at the exoense of TCs because of the turkish invation and occupation is the least oximoron!
Let me see what we have here:
- Turkey invades after the coup
- Chooses to stay instead of reinstalling the constitution
- TCs find themselves with twice the amount of land that they had
- The international community reacts and calls this illegal thus imposing some sort of isolation for the occuppied parts.
- TCs coontinue to support the occupation and
- Turkey still refuses to do what they ought to have done and decides to continue the occupation
- TCs find out the hard way that what they were promised did not materialise
- GCs on the other hand work hard, house the 200,000 refugees, heal the wounds of the invation as best the could and progress economically
- Zan decides that because of all the above it was GCs that benefited from the invation and accuses the RoC for the misfortunes of TCs

Hmmm...

Now is Zan right?
Maybe, as TCs were taken for a ride by Turkey. It is a bit strange that the GCs that suffered all that loss in terms of human lives and natural resourses and had to live in tents as late as 1978-79 have managed that well. On the other hand the TCs that were "saved" by their motherland and got twice as much as some people say have shown limited economic growth despite the generous handouts by Turkey.

After all the above an outsider only has to wonder why the hell GCs want a united island and whether they are not negotiating partition? Well, maybe because they love this island? Or what about considering TCs as their compatriots? Or maybe wanting to have the right to return or retire to their ancestral villages?

Yes I do believe in what I am saying. It is just that you did not understand what I am saying or the situation for that matter. I did not say that the GCs benefited FROM the intervention but in spite of it. You have been allowed to function as a proper moneymaking state and we have not. I do not see why you find that so hard to grasp. You have been able to GENERATE cash and develop businesses, like tourism, while we have not. The money from Turkey has been used to keep us afloat for a long time and income has been stunted by the embargoes. That is the door you have shut in our faces. You blame that on Turkey but you are wrong. We cannot issue licenses due to the embargoes so we cannot sell our produce and therefore we produce very little. We could not advertise for tourism (although that was proved illegal and has changed) so we could not develop that either. When I was there a few years ago, even the great Jasmine court had only about a hundred guests in it. Other new developments were at a standstill. The OXI on the Annan plan has changed all that as far as tourism and building is concerned. We did not know where we were going until that day but now our way is clearer. We have to make it on our own. Still the embargoes mean hat we cannot issue licenses and as far as I ma concerned if this goes on the way will be clear again and that is to become part of Turkey and have licenses issued there as a consequence. We will always fight for recognition but that is a much harder road to travel so it is up to the people of the TRNC/KKTC which way that goes. Of course there is he outside chance that he "RoC" might come to its senses and let us have our rightful place in government in a safe two state system (don't ask me details on that I am not qualified to answer) but hat seems the least likely in TC eyes. The idea that we will just up sticks and come over to the "RoC" is just not an option as far as I am concerned.

[zan]

Piratis wrote:

Make your research and then you will find that in 1974 the TCs that were killed were after the invasion had started and they were much less than the amount of GCs killed.

I do not have to answer the rest of your rubbish because this one item is enough to show the lies people like will tell in order to take the blame away from yourselves.

So the two villages that were being attacked and bombed by you guys before the intervention, and the cause of the intervention, they were only joking and no one got killed in that time. The thousands of GC that were also killed by your own people you put on to us as well with your lies. I told you before that you cannot make all of the people believe your lies all of he time but you do get brownie points for trying at least.

Yours and others intentions are very clear Piratis, as to what you are trying to do. Your whole story is based on lies and it does two things hat I am very glad of. First of all it shows the world what kind of person is at the heart of these lies and how much he GC people have been lied to as well, and secondly it makes my blood boil and gives me the strength to fight you. Chuck in a paid TC or two and I have all the fuel I need to carry on for another fifty years. Thank you.

[Piratis]

Zan, you are the lier in here. The Turks have killed 10s of thousands of Greek Cypriots and the continue with crimes and illegalities as we speak. And as an excuse what you do is to try to magnify by a factor of 100 the damage we did to you to excuse your crimes against us.

I said that no TC was killed in 1974 until after the invasion had started. This is the truth. If you dispute this truth then tell me which villages were attacked in 1974 before July 20th 1974, the day of the invasion. Can you?

In another post of yours some time ago you posted a TC propaganda website that had all the TC victims in it, and even there it was shown that the TC casualties in 1974 were after the invasion.

So stop your lies.

[zan]

Cyprus
Intercommunal Violence, 1963-67
Three years of peace followed Cypriot independence in 1960. Beneath the peace, however, lay the resentment of some Greek Cypriots at the prevention of enosis and a growing conflict between Greek and Turkish Cypriots over the bicommunal provisions of the constitution. The Cypriot army, which was to consist of 1,200 Greek Cypriots and 800 Turkish Cypriots, never materialized because of differences over the six-to-four formula for integrating the force. EOKA had officially disbanded and surrendered its weapons in 1959, and Grivas had returned to Greece. In fact, however, many former EOKA members had retained their weapons, and some joined groups of armed irregulars. The Turkish Cypriot community responded to the growth of these groups by reviving the TMT in early 1962. These forces received arms and assistance from the Greek and Turkish contingents assigned to the island.

In late November 1963, the president, Archbishop Makarios, introduced a thirteen-point proposal to amend the constitution in a way that would ensure the dominance of Greek Cypriots (see Republic of Cyprus , ch. 1). In the tense atmosphere that ensued, a street brawl broke out on December 21 in Nicosia, between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriot police. This fight was followed by major attacks by Greek Cypriot irregulars in Nicosia and Larnaca. Looting and destruction of Turkish villages forced many Turkish Cypriots to withdraw into defensible enclaves guarded by the TMT paramilitary. Fearful that Turkey might carry out its threat to invade, Makarios agreed to British intervention from its bases on the island. On December 27 British troops assumed positions between opposing irregular units, and the fighting, which had claimed 100 lives on each side during the previous week, subsided temporarily. The cease-fire held in Nicosia, but by mid-February 1964 Greek Cypriot attacks at Limassol brought a renewed threat of Turkish landings. Britain appealed to the UN Security Council, and on March 4, 1964, the UN approved a resolution to establish an international peace-keeping force for duty in Cyprus. Contingents from Canada, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, and Sweden joined the British soldiers already in place; together they made up the 6,500-member United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus (UNFICYP), which was still present on the island, though at much reduced strength, a quarter of a century later (see United Nations Peace-keeping Force in Cyprus , this ch.).

In June 1964, the National Guard was formed by the Greek Cypriot government, which also instituted male conscription. The National Guard absorbed the various private armies into a single national military force loyal to the government and served as a deterrent to a Turkish invasion. Greek Army soldiers were clandestinely transferred to the guard on a large scale; by midsummer the National Guard consisted of an estimated 24,000 officers and men, about half from the Greek Army. Grivas, thought to be the only man who could enforce discipline over the disparate armed Greek Cypriot factions, returned from Athens to command the National Guard.

Meanwhile, the Turkish Cypriot community, in its newly created enclaves, organized militarily under the TMT, supported by conscription of Turkish Cypriot youths. Turkish Army troops trained the Turkish Cypriot forces, totaling an estimated 10,000 fighters, and directed the defense of the enclaves. Outbreaks of fighting continued, although the presence of UNFICYP prevented them from erupting into major hostilities. In August 1964, the National Guard carried out a coordinated sea and land assault against Kokkina on the northwest coast, in an effort to cut off the major Turkish Cypriot supply line to the mainland. Heavy attacks by Turkish jet fighter-bombers, operating beyond the range of the Greek Air Force, halted the Greek Cypriot offensive. Several years of peace followed, while the two communities improved their military readiness.

In November 1967, units of the National Guard, at the instigation of Grivas, launched a massive artillery assault on two Turkish Cypriot villages following a dispute over police patrols. The crisis was defused when United States mediation brought an agreement that endured for the next seven years: all foreign troops in excess of those permitted by the Treaty of Alliance were to be removed from Cyprus, and the National Guard was to be dismantled in exchange for an immediate Turkish demobilization. Grivas was recalled to Athens, along with about 10,000 of the Greek troops assigned to the National Guard. The National Guard, however, was not dissolved.

Data as of January 1991


http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?f ... CID+cy0149)

And then the coup that started more killings. Or are we just narrowing down to a couple of weeks before the intervention.

[Piratis]

Intercommunal Violence, 1963-67

Thanks for proving my point. The intercommunal conflict was between 63-68. Some 100s of people from both sides were killed during that time over a period of 5 years - hardly a full scale war or anything close to it. That conflict had nothing to do with the Turkish invasion of 1974.

So what you said before "So the two villages that were being attacked and bombed by you guys before the intervention, and the cause of the intervention..." was a lie. In 1974 there were not any such attacks until after the invasion had started, at which point some GCs retaliated to the 1000s of GCs being butchered by the Turks, and killed about 200 TCs in return.

I condemn the killings of innocents, and I do not excuse them (unlike you). However I do not accept the lies that the Turkish invasion happened because TCs were killed. On the contrary the Turks are the ones who started killing GCs by the 1000s in 1974, and the TCs that died were after this as a retaliation.

[zan]

Intercommunal Violence, 1963-67

Thanks for proving my point. The intercommunal conflict was between 63-68. Some 100s of people from both sides were killed during that time over a period of 5 years - hardly a full scale war or anything close to it. That conflict had nothing to do with the Turkish invasion of 1974.

So what you said before "So the two villages that were being attacked and bombed by you guys before the intervention, and the cause of the intervention..." was a lie. In 1974 there were not any such attacks until after the invasion had started, at which point some GCs retaliated to the 1000s of GCs being butchered by the Turks, and killed about 200 TCs in return.

I condemn the killings of innocents, and I do not excuse them (unlike you). However I do not accept the lies that the Turkish invasion happened because TCs were killed. On the contrary the Turks are the ones who started killing GCs by the 1000s in 1974, and the TCs that died were after this as a retaliation.

Utter rubbish once again. Bravo! These events had nothing to do with 1974? But then you go back 3,000 years and use that as having relevance. Turkey was going to intervene in 67 but was warned off by the USA. Then when it started again in 74 with a coup, and I have already told you about the bullet holes in my cousins van two weeks before the intervention, then and only then did Turkey intervene so stop your rubbish about it just coming up out of the blue. Mind you having said that keep it up because it shows your intent as I have said before. How many GC do you own up to being killed by the coupists out of that figure you keep spewing up. How about answering that one.

[Piratis]

You don't have any evidence to support the lies you are saying so you are making stories with cousins and nephews

You lied before that supposedly two villages were attacked and bombed in 1974 before the invasion which was the cause of the invasion, then when I asked you for evidence you didn't have any so you want back in 1967, and then when I told you that 1967 was 7 whole years before the invasion you remembered the "cousin story". You are ridiculous.

I understand why you can not handle the truth Zan. Because you use gross exaggerations and lies to support your crimes. The truth simply doesn't suit you.

[zan]

You don't have any evidence to support the lies you are saying so you are making stories with cousins and nephews

You lied before that supposedly two villages were attacked and bombed in 1974 before the invasion which was the cause of the invasion, then when I asked you for evidence you didn't have any so you want back in 1967, and then when I told you that 1967 was 7 whole years before the invasion you remembered the "cousin story". You are ridiculous.

I understand why you can not handle the truth Zan. Because you use gross exaggerations and lies to support your crimes. The truth simply doesn't suit you.

You can't change the truth Piratis no matter how hard you try it will always come to the surface. You have a pathetic line of argument and jump from pillar to post to justify one lie after the other. I told you that the 67 attack on those two villages was the reason and they were. Turkey was going to intervene then, do you deny that? They did not and the antagonising of the TC forced into 3% of he island, whether you like it or not, carried on until he coup. These instances were not isolated as you try to make them out to be they were on going for years and years. As I said though...Keep talking.....

[paaul12]

keep going Zan, one day the truth will be told, well done for all your work in this forum, respect!!!!