Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

your confusion

* Extra Brownie Point *

(Leads a fool down a dark alley and then whacks him on the head)

[TOTIS MILIOTIS]

What makes the Greek invasion of the island by the Greeks more legitimate than others by Hitites, Egyptians, Romans, Ottomans etc?

Any documentation expenses involving Turkish Cypriots' Citizenship is well covered by the generous EU econimic aid the Greek Cypriot government representing Cyprus.

None of the land in the North is stolen anymore than the land Turkish Cypriots left behind in the South. The private property occupied in the North is equivalent to that left behind in the South!

Turkish army is not "a foreign invading army" as now accepted by most EU countries who have had the chance to face the facts. Turkish Cypriots do not see them as an invading or intruding force, but as a source of protection that has stopped the animals of EOKA slaughtering innocent women and children. Thery will be here until your kind of Greek Cypriot mentality becomes extinct - and I do not believe you speak for the majority of Greek Cypriots so I wish you would stop referring to your own ideas A "We..." all the time!

What has this Turkish army you hate so much done to you or Cyprus?

1. Cyprus has enjoyed its longest period of peace (33 years) over the past 100 years. In other words their presence has effectively stopped the inter-communal fighting and death of many innocent.

2. It brought down the Greek JUNTA and brough democracy back to Greece!

3. Turkish army never attacked or slaughtered any Greek civilians, women, or children during this period - unlike the Greek mainland army helping general Grivas (EOKA), destroy many Turkish villages and slaughter their inhabitants between 1963-67 and the same again in 1974.

4. Unlike the invading Greek mainland army did to Makarios in 1974, they did not bombard the Turkish Cypriot presidential palace when a left wing government came to power (CTP).

5. Turkish army is restricted to their barracks as a peace keeping force, and do not occupy or run North of the island. Those Greek Cypriots crossing to the North must have witnessed that the Turkish Cypriots are governing themselves, without soldiers patrolling the streets everyday.

6. By your definition, Cyprus must belong to mainland Turkey, because the HITITES (see above list) who were the occupants of Anatolia at the time, were the first rulers of the island - long before any invading Egyptians, Greeks or Romans set foot on it. 80 miles from Turkish mainland, more than 800 miles from Greece - what gives you the right to claim that Cyprus is Greek?

In your other posts you give avery biased and narrow account of population proportions without looking into history again. Ottomans ruled Cyprus for 350 years, during which time nothing "pure" was left! So this "pure" Greek majority you keep referring to (which sounds like Hitler's claim for an Aryan race) that has occupied Cyprus, do they include all the mainland Greeks who came to settle in Cyprus between 1963 and 1974? Do they include thousands of mainland Greek soldiers brought to Cyprus to reinforce the National Guard and offered citizenship by Makarios?

Have you considered the vloume of Turkish Cypriots who left Cyprus for Turkey 1920 onwards, after the British annexation of the island. Have you considered hundreds of thousands of Turkish Cypriots living in UK, Australia, Germany, Holland, U.S.A. - forced to sell and move out of their lands after persistent EOKA aatcks between 1963-1974 and the ensuing economic frustation? Noiw you try and ecriticize the influx of some 20,000 mainland Turks - who now number around 40,000 with their offspring. After 30 years they are just as Cypriot as you and I are - especially their children who were born here.

You lack of knowledge amazed me when you claimed in another post that yoiu are a Greek citizen of Cyprus. Allow me to give you some free advice befor you embarrass yourself any further. The distionary meaning of a citizen is "a native or naturalized member of a state or other political community". This makes you a CYPRUS citizen and nothing more. The same applies for the Turkish Cypriots currently living in the North.

Anyone who is not happy with hearing Greeks speak Greek or Turks speak Turkish in the island is welcome to move and live in Greece or Turkey (and many do) - nothing wrong with that! But the chances of ANY Greek Cypriot majority ruling over a Turkish Cypriot minority during our lifetime is as good as you or me taking a trip around the World tomorrow in a Space Shuttle!




DETTIGATED TO ALL OF YOU IN SOUTH. WITH A SMALL REQUEST- PLS REPLY TO THIS STMNT YOUR SIDE .

AS FOR SOME REFERS TO ME AS FANATIC THERE IS A HUGE MISSUDERSTANDING!!!!I NEVER QUOTED ANYWHERE THAT GREEKS MUST KILL TURKS OR TURKS ARE WORST THAN GREEKS.I NEITHER NEVER STATED ANY SUPPORT TO EOKA B OR FANATIC PARTIES IN CYPRUS. WHAT I AM SIMPLY STATED IS THAT AA) WE ARE GREEKS-THEY ARE TURKS-PROVED ABOVE BB) POSSIBLY THIS CYPRUS PROBLEM STARTED SINCE BRITISH IN 50' 60' CONVISTED SOME PEOPLE IN CYPRUS THAT THEY ARE SIMPLE CYPRIOTS-THINK! THE PROBLEM STARTED JUST THAT PERIOD.

CC.MY BASIC QUESTION AND STATEMENT IN THIS CHAT WAS WHICH OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, RESPECTIVE ITSELF WOULD ACCEPTED A CITIZENSHIP TO PEOPLE COOPERATING SO CLOSED WITH A FOREIGN INVASION ARMY.

PLS TRY TO NOT MIX UP FANATISM AND CLEAR POSITIONS STATING NO HEIGHT BUT ONLY BELIEVES ON WHAT WE ARE LIVING IN THIS ISLAND.

"STO TELOS THA MAS POUNE KAI MA...KES!!!!!

AS FOR THE FIRST QUESTION STATED ABOVE (WHY GREEKS....ETC) MY FREIND IF YOU FIND THE REPLY BY YOURSELF THEN THE CYPRUS PROBLEM IS SOLVED.

[pitsilos]

your confusion

* Extra Brownie Point *

(Leads a fool down a dark alley and then whacks him on the head)

what took yeah so long

don't you love newbies?

[Get Real!]

your confusion

* Extra Brownie Point *

(Leads a fool down a dark alley and then whacks him on the head)

what took yeah so long

I gotta hand it to you Pitsile, the guy spent 3-4 pages trying to score a brownie point and you come along... throw a couple of one-liners at him and snatch the bonus! Effortless!

[pitsilos]

why bark when you got a dog

[DT.]

Now, going back to your baseless comments, perhaps you can answer these:

What makes the Greek invasion of the island by the Greeks more legitimate than others by Hitites, Egyptians, Romans, Ottomans etc?

the fact that there is a 82% majority of Greek Cypriots still on the island....If we were Egyptians I'd be arguing against you ruining statues of Mubarak right now.

None of the land in the North is stolen anymore than the land Turkish Cypriots left behind in the South. The private property occupied in the North is equivalent to that left behind in the South!

You mad?

Turkish army is not "a foreign invading army" as now accepted by most EU countries who have had the chance to face the facts

. Which EU countries are these who see 40,000 Turkish non-EU troops on EU land as Noddy's friendly Circus army? Here to spend Joy and Love to the island?

What has this Turkish army you hate so much done to you or Cyprus?

1. Cyprus has enjoyed its longest period of peace (33 years) over the past 100 years. In other words their presence has effectively stopped the inter-communal fighting and death of many innocent.

Not 1 TC was killed in anger after 63. Amy TC's that died in 74 were after the invasion


3

. Turkish army never attacked or slaughtered any Greek civilians, women, or children during this period - unlike the Greek mainland army helping general Grivas (EOKA), destroy many Turkish villages and slaughter their inhabitants between 1963-67 and the same again in 1974.

My mother-in Law was a doctor at the time. She was in charge of a family planning program amongst other things which basically arranged for the abortions of 100's of GC women that had been raped and were left pregnant by the turkish troops. She won't mind me giving you more details about this if you like, pm me.
I won't talk about the amount of civilians killed in the invasion because I refuse to beleive that you think the Turks were firing flowers from their guns. If you are serious then open a separate topic and i'll start dumping facts and figures.

6. By your definition, Cyprus must belong to mainland Turkey, because the HITITES (see above list) who were the occupants of Anatolia at the time, were the first rulers of the island - long before any invading Egyptians, Greeks or Romans set foot on it. 80 miles from Turkish mainland, more than 800 miles from Greece - what gives you the right to claim that Cyprus is Greek?

because asia minor was greek at the time as well. the 80 miles you talk about used to be the distance between Cyprus and other Hellenes.

[pitsilos]

he forgot to mention the indeginous population of rome was turks prior to been snatch by the romans

actuall fact the whole wide world started from turkey...populated by turks and then by the greatest miscarriages of justice the whole wide world was taken away from the turks and became as we know today many nations.

[Kifeas]

Mr Militades, I am sorry to say you are a veryt ill informed man! To start with your false allegation that Cyprus is a Greek island and everyone else are invaders or foreigners let me prove you wrong for once and all, so that you may give your senseless claims a rest. Below shows the occupants of the island from very early ages:
c.8,500 - 8,000 BCHunter Gatherers

7,000 - 5,300 BC The first settlers: the Khirokitians

4,000 - 2,500 BC Chalcolitic (Copper) Age: stone crucifix pendants are carved

2,700 - 1,600 BC Cypriot Bronze Ages, Early and Middle: cattle, horses, and bronze making are introduced as well as highly indi- vidual pottery style

1,600 - 1,050 BC The Late Bronze Age: period of sophisticated literate city states such as Enkomi-Alasia and Kition

1,500 - 1,450 BC Hittite rule in Cyprus

1,450 - 1,000 BC Beginning of the Egyptian domination of the island

1,200 - 1,000 BC Establishment of the city states of Salamis (capital at the time), Soli, Marion, Paphos, Kurium, and Kyrenia; arrival of Greek colonies

1,000 - 850 BC Iron Age - Cypro-Geometric Period. The coming of Iron, the Dorians and a Dark Age also known as Cypro-Geometric I and II

850 - 750 BC Iron Age - Cypro-Geometric Period. The Phoenician-led Renaissance and Assyrian rule on the island.

750 - 475 BC Iron Age - Cypro-Archaic Period. Time of the city-kingdoms despite the island being ruled by a succession of foreign countries for much of the period (Assyrians, from 709 BC; Egyptians, from c.570 BC; and Persians, from 545 BC).

568 - 525 BC Egyptian domination

525 - 333 BC Iron Age - Cypro-Classical Period sees the Persian occupation and the rule of the island and the duel between the city kingdoms of Kition and Salamis.

333 - 58 BC Hellenistic rule: the heirs of the Alexander the Great rule the island

58 BC - 395 AD Roman Empire ruling Cyprus: 350 years of quiet provincial prosperity

395 - 649 AD Island becomes a part of the Byzantine Empire when Cyprus is gradually converted from paganism to Orthodox Christianity (Early Byzantine period)

649 - 965 AD A second Dark Age: the island is caught on the frontier between the two warring empires of Byzantium and Islam

965 - 1191 Return of the island to Byzantium (Late Byzantine period)

1191 - 1192 Rule of the island by Richard I (the Lionheart), of England and later by the Knights Templars

1192 - 1489 Rule of the island by the Frankish Lusignan Dynasty

1489 - 1570 Venetian domination of Cyprus

1571 - 1878 Conquest of the island by the Ottoman Empire

1878 - 1925 In accordance with a defence-alliance between Britain and the Ottoman Empire, the administration of Cyprus passes to Britain

1925 - 1960 Cyprus is annexed by Britain when Ottoman Empire enters into the World War I on the side of Germany; subsequently the island becomes a Crown Colony and under the British rule

1960 Foundation of the Republic of Cyprus (by the Turkish and Greek-Cypriot communities)

Now, going back to your baseless comments, perhaps you can answer these:

What makes the Greek invasion of the island by the Greeks more legitimate than others by Hitites, Egyptians, Romans, Ottomans etc?

Any documentation expenses involving Turkish Cypriots' Citizenship is well covered by the generous EU econimic aid the Greek Cypriot government representing Cyprus.

None of the land in the North is stolen anymore than the land Turkish Cypriots left behind in the South. The private property occupied in the North is equivalent to that left behind in the South!

Turkish army is not "a foreign invading army" as now accepted by most EU countries who have had the chance to face the facts. Turkish Cypriots do not see them as an invading or intruding force, but as a source of protection that has stopped the animals of EOKA slaughtering innocent women and children. Thery will be here until your kind of Greek Cypriot mentality becomes extinct - and I do not believe you speak for the majority of Greek Cypriots so I wish you would stop referring to your own ideas A "We..." all the time!

What has this Turkish army you hate so much done to you or Cyprus?

1. Cyprus has enjoyed its longest period of peace (33 years) over the past 100 years. In other words their presence has effectively stopped the inter-communal fighting and death of many innocent.

2. It brought down the Greek JUNTA and brough democracy back to Greece!

3. Turkish army never attacked or slaughtered any Greek civilians, women, or children during this period - unlike the Greek mainland army helping general Grivas (EOKA), destroy many Turkish villages and slaughter their inhabitants between 1963-67 and the same again in 1974.

4. Unlike the invading Greek mainland army did to Makarios in 1974, they did not bombard the Turkish Cypriot presidential palace when a left wing government came to power (CTP).

5. Turkish army is restricted to their barracks as a peace keeping force, and do not occupy or run North of the island. Those Greek Cypriots crossing to the North must have witnessed that the Turkish Cypriots are governing themselves, without soldiers patrolling the streets everyday.

6. By your definition, Cyprus must belong to mainland Turkey, because the HITITES (see above list) who were the occupants of Anatolia at the time, were the first rulers of the island - long before any invading Egyptians, Greeks or Romans set foot on it. 80 miles from Turkish mainland, more than 800 miles from Greece - what gives you the right to claim that Cyprus is Greek?

In your other posts you give avery biased and narrow account of population proportions without looking into history again. Ottomans ruled Cyprus for 350 years, during which time nothing "pure" was left! So this "pure" Greek majority you keep referring to (which sounds like Hitler's claim for an Aryan race) that has occupied Cyprus, do they include all the mainland Greeks who came to settle in Cyprus between 1963 and 1974? Do they include thousands of mainland Greek soldiers brought to Cyprus to reinforce the National Guard and offered citizenship by Makarios?

Have you considered the vloume of Turkish Cypriots who left Cyprus for Turkey 1920 onwards, after the British annexation of the island. Have you considered hundreds of thousands of Turkish Cypriots living in UK, Australia, Germany, Holland, U.S.A. - forced to sell and move out of their lands after persistent EOKA aatcks between 1963-1974 and the ensuing economic frustation? Noiw you try and ecriticize the influx of some 20,000 mainland Turks - who now number around 40,000 with their offspring. After 30 years they are just as Cypriot as you and I are - especially their children who were born here.

You lack of knowledge amazed me when you claimed in another post that yoiu are a Greek citizen of Cyprus. Allow me to give you some free advice befor you embarrass yourself any further. The distionary meaning of a citizen is "a native or naturalized member of a state or other political community". This makes you a CYPRUS citizen and nothing more. The same applies for the Turkish Cypriots currently living in the North.

Anyone who is not happy with hearing Greeks speak Greek or Turks speak Turkish in the island is welcome to move and live in Greece or Turkey (and many do) - nothing wrong with that! But the chances of ANY Greek Cypriot majority ruling over a Turkish Cypriot minority during our lifetime is as good as you or me taking a trip around the World tomorrow in a Space Shuttle!

bigOz, may I ask where have you copied all the above ridiculous nonsense from?

Has it never occurred to you that they may just be rubbish? How old are you? I suppose a young kid that spends his time reading about Cyprus from ATCA and “TRNC” propaganda websites! Well, hear the truth o the matter! If this is your knowledge and understanding of Cyprus, its problem and its history, you have definitely been take for a ride, big time! You have been fucked, bigOz, and you do not even know it!

[bigOz]

Here is my reply to self appointed "Socrates":

Always quote your source from the Internet because as I suspected after reading through your message there was an obvious undermining of the Greek Mycenaean arrival and subsequent important influence on the island which occurred at around 1500BC

There was no "Greek Myceans" but MYCEANS just like there were no Turkish Hitites or Turkish Trojans. Myceans built their early "Greek alphabet" based on the Mionian writing of the time, which they pillaged to destruction. I accept they can be identified as the earliest "Greeks" who inhabited the geographic area called Greece today, but it is open to argument whether they called themselcves Hellenic or Greeks. Many even argue Greeks stole the culture as their own from the original occupants of the area but that is beyond our scope at the moment. The Wikipedia encyclopedia sets out the rulers of Cyprus as follows:

Assyrian Period (709 BC - 669 BC)
Persian Period (525 BC - 333 BC)
Hellenistic Period (333 BC - 58 BC)
Roman Period (58 BC - 330)
Byzantine Cyprus (330 - 1191)
Kingdom of Cyprus (1192 - 1489)
Venetian Period (1489 - 1571)
Ottoman Cyprus (1571 - 1878)

As you can see I left out earlier details but the only time a Hellenistic period is mentioned is as above.

There was no Greek "invasion" as such. The first Greeks to arrive on the island were Mycenaeans (people from the southern part of Greece called “Sparti”) at around 1500BC with the aim of trading their goods. Some of these Greeks stayed and lived on the island and in time their influence was successful enough to shape language, religion, and the culture of Cyprus to this day. The "legitimacy" issue you bring up is more an issue of longevity of influence which the Greeks win hands down.

The first Greeks as you call them may have arrived for trading and some decided to stay in the island but what you are conveniently living out is that they merely joined in with the inhabitants of the time. No one claims Greeks were first to habitate the island! There is no proof that the official language of the island had been Greek over thousands of years either. PROVE IT! As you do like the links perhaps you may find this one interesting http://perso.orange.fr/miltiade/GB/hittitesGB.htm

As for the second part of the above quote, are you seriously suggesting the "longevity" of Greek influence, or language for that matter is still valid after you look at the order and duration of various rulers of the island as quoted above (by the encyclopedia)?

What you say "did not make sense": It would have if you overlooked the typo errors and used your head. Errors because I was in a hurry to get on with something else. It shoul have read:

"Any documentation expenses arising from issuing Turkish Cypriots' Citizenship is well covered by the generous EU economic aid handed over to the Greek Cypriot government representing Cyprus." IS THAT CLEARER?

As for your next comment:

Here you are making an assumption without having done any homework...

Land Ownership in Cyprus by Ethnic Group:

60.9% - Greek/Armenian/Maronite Cypriots
12.3% - Turkish Cypriots
0.5% - Others
26.3% - State/Church Land

Source: Department of Lands and Surveys
(Refer to Annex 14 in Volume II of the "Memorandum by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Cyprus" submitted to the Foreign Affairs Committee of the House of Commons, 27 February 1987)

I think you should be a stand up comedian!
First of all the data comes from the Greek Cypriot government - which is nothing more than one would expect! A pack of lies twisting the facts.

What was their source for working out the Turkish property owned in the North of the island? Why is there no reference to "Vakiflar". An establishment going back to Ottoman times (founded by the mosque) one of the richest landowners on the island? Are you aware that currently there is a serious allegation that the actual land where the disputed "Marash" hotels were built on, used to be mostly "Vakif" property? Did they include the land owned by the now non-existent owners of the Turkish villages whose inhabitants were totally erased by EOKA. Telling me to do my homework and relying on the unsubstantiated Greek Cypriot government figures is laughable at the least!

I shall not biother reply to the handful of worthless quotes about TMT's murder or attempted murders. I am sure thay had a good reason for wanting to shoot Turkish EOKA symphatisers. But besides that, you are referring to British colonial era and not our current problem THE CYPRUS REPUBLIC. Forget about half a dozen Turks TMT killed! How many (hundreds? thousands?) Greek Cypriots did EOKA kill during 1974.

How many Greek women and children did Turkish army or TMT buried in mass graves? Not feeling very good? Neither would I if I was in your shoes!

Socrates! I do not get my info from the junk sites I read. I havce been involved, lived through, learned about the Cyprus problem for the past 37 years! Telling me about being napalmed out of your home makes me believe you must be referring to what happened in Koccina and the sorrounding villages during mid 60s. Go complain to Grivas lead EOKA in the area at the time, who were about to finish of the inhabitants of 3-4 Turkish villages in the area, including some 300 TC students who landed there from Turkey in the belief that they could help save their families in Cyprus. Those napalms saved the villages and the student's lives from the heavily armoured mainland Greek soldiers and national guards numbering well over 5000. Next time you try to bury TCs we'll throw roses at you and not napalms, because you have just sweet talked me into it...

Stick to comedy my friend!

[bigOz]

bigOz, may I ask where have you copied all the above ridiculous nonsense from?

Has it never occurred to you that they may just be rubbish? How old are you? I suppose a young kid that spends his time reading about Cyprus from ATCA and “TRNC” propaganda websites! Well, hear the truth o the matter! If this is your knowledge and understanding of Cyprus, its problem and its history, you have definitely been take for a ride, big time! You have been fucked, bigOz, and you do not even know it!

So you believe Greek propaganda websites are better informed are they? You get fucked by your propaganda sites and I'll get fucked by mine - the only problem is you'll get fucked more often, because you would be relying on info from sites a lot more than I do! I know a good vaseline shop in TRNC, give me the address and I'll post it to you free!