Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

I see...once again back to the same old Play-the -man-not- the -ball game...

When did I ever suggest that we should just abandon everything and unconditionally surrender???? Kikapu is in favour of a 2 state federal solution...And I favour a unitary state...My starting point is the 1960 constitution....The only agreement we have ever had as Cypriots,which is still in operation,sort of...I want an orderly return to the 1960 RoC...then measures put into place to foster understanding,respect,and trust...then collective action to make the 1960 contitution more democratic...leading to a totally democratic state run on human righst and equal opportunity for all principles...Those who accuse me of being a complete surrenderist are engaging in misinformation,knowingly or not...

I could choose to retaliate and accuse some TCs here for living in a timecapsule,being so brainwashed by their illinformed parents regarding the Cyprus problem,or simply being stooges of Chauvinistic unthinking Turkish nationalism...but I wouldn't dream of it...

I know we need to build trust (thank you Deniz for agreeing with me on most things) and I know that the entrenched fear of the EOKA and the TMT is very real for most people,including myself...And I agree that Tassos has to go before any concrete steps can be taken,not because I think he still harbours Enosis sentiments,but because he is too smelly for most TCs to accept.Impressions are everything in modern politicas,at best of times...At worst of times like in Cyprus impressions are more than everything...That is why Denktash had to go...If Tassos wants to open the way for a solution he will not recontest this election.If not he will prove that he is really only after personal power and to further the interests of partitionists on both sides...Now what else do you want me to say...? Are these the opinions of someone who wants total surrender????

[miltiades]

You seem to be on the same strategy as Miltiades. Why do you accept the problems that go along with the "RoC" and then try to tempt us into it.I understand your frustration on the matter but you are doing nothing but harm by doing both the above. Why can't you fight for the wrongs to be put right first and then go for the unification. It confuses me and I am sure, by the responses you are getting from nearly all the TCs, that it confuses all of them also. We don't want to have the indignity of having to fight those wrongs from the inside or after the fact. We need them sorted out first but the "RoC" does not show any will to help us to do so. I am sorry but as I have said to Miltiades again and again, you are trying to sell us double glazing with no glass in the windows promising that you will sort the problem out after we have paid over our money. That is not the way to do business and it stinks to high heaven.

I am just sick and tired of hearing the same old excuses,Zan.
Yes,terrible things did happen between the two communities starting from early 50s and probably earlier,and I know and understand the fear factor for the TCs,but the times have changed,mate...How long are you guys going to hang on to old fear,loathing and bitterness.And when are you going to acknowledge that your fear and bittterness and prejudices (plural you!) are being exploited by many outside powers,including Turkey,to keep us divided and ruled...I know we did discuss the issue of Turkey not being able to land soldiers again as easiliy once they are pulled out,and I remember agreen with you on that...But these days you don't have to invade a country to enforce your will on them should need be...Remember Kosovo and the NATO bombing of Serbia??? When are you guys going to acknowledge that a lot of opportunistic and undeserving,and criminal elements,are taking advantage of the present situation to fill their pockets at the expense of the TC and GC refugees...
As long as you guys do not give an inch on the propaganda stakes,the GC side will not come to the party...And as one other GC poster stated elsewhere (DT I think), to insist that GCs still want Enosis in this day and age when the RoC is effectively united with Greece via the EU,is laughable. It stinks to high heavens as a convenient excuse to maintain the status quo...The same goes for the EOKA.They are nowhere to be found,mate,and you guys know it...That is all in the past.I know there is a lot to be done from the GC side (to educate the youth of Cyprus on the true history of the conflict,plus perhaps measures to curb the negative influence of the Church in the South),but you need to undertand the political restraints placed on the GC government under the present circumstances.No government or politician will survive in the Republic if they are seen to make too many concessions to Turkey...This is essentially a conflict between Turkey and the RoC,whether we like it or not...Come on,use some of that considerable intelligence of yours to empathise with our GC compatriots...Not to justify with lame excuses the continuation of the status quo which is doing nothing to advance anybodies cause.Except the cause of the unthinking Turkish nationalists and war profiteers...

Oh my god I have just seen this one. Kikapu is really Kikapyros and now Birkibrisli has become Birkipiratis. WOW!

As for the post contents Birkipiratis, what a can of worms you have opened up. There was me thinking that TPap was to blame and I took great care to always blame the "RoC" and you go and blame the GC people themselves. The puppet master is really the puppet ey! So you believe that it is the GC public that do not want us and are influencing TPap in that direction. SO when he was crying on TV and begging his people to vote OXI he was crying out of fear for what might become of him....................................Very interesting.

Zan , you are the true epitome of a brainwashed individual that although perfectly capable of using his own logic has allowed VPs department to influence him to the extend that YOU ARE now the new OFFICIAL propagandist on this forum.It is evident by your continued adherence to predetermined statements that meet with the official policy of the VP department which you have now joined .You posted 3000 posts without referring to the ROC in inverted commas .Suddenly , on your masters instructions , you abandoned logic and reverted to the role that the department casted for you. You constantly refer to past conflicts giving the impression that the only victims were the T/Cs , never mind the 6000 dead Cypriots or the 200 thousand refugees. Only one thing matters to you and it is your commitment to the new world that you aspired to in an earlier post. Kikapu and Bir are two genuine Cypriots who along with many more accept that both communities committed crimes against their fellow Cypriots , T/Cs against T/Cs , G/Cs against G/Cs and each against each other. What motivated such crimes .People with your ideas , fanatics and brainwashed demagogues , just like you , who instead of preaching peace and respect for each other they spread poison and hatred , just like you.
Let me finally refer to a much debated earlier matter , the number of T/Cs killed in conflict 7 or so years prior to the Turkish invasion in order to stop the "massacre" I think the casualties were either none or a handful whose deaths were never proven to have been as a result of conflict.The fact is the you are constantly bringing up the past and using lame excuses to promote what to the entire world is an occupied part of the only true republic of Cyprus.

[zan]

I see...once again back to the same old Play-the -man-not- the -ball game...

When did I ever suggest that we should just abandon everything and unconditionally surrender???? Kikapu is in favour of a 2 state federal solution...And I favour a unitary state...My starting point is the 1960 constitution....The only agreement we have ever had as Cypriots,which is still in operation,sort of...I want an orderly return to the 1960 RoC...then measures put into place to foster understanding,respect,and trust...then collective action to make the 1960 contitution more democratic...leading to a totally democratic state run on human righst and equal opportunity for all principles...Those who accuse me of being a complete surrenderist are engaging in misinformation,knowingly or not...

I could choose to retaliate and accuse some TCs here for living in a timecapsule,being so brainwashed by their illinformed parents regarding the Cyprus problem,or simply being stooges of Chauvinistic unthinking Turkish nationalism...but I wouldn't dream of it...

I know we need to build trust (thank you Deniz for agreeing with me on most things) and I know that the entrenched fear of the EOKA and the TMT is very real for most people,including myself...And I agree that Tassos has to go before any concrete steps can be taken,not because I think he still harbours Enosis sentiments,but because he is too smelly for most TCs to accept.Impressions are everything in modern politicas,at best of times...At worst of times like in Cyprus impressions are more than everything...That is why Denktash had to go...If Tassos wants to open the way for a solution he will not recontest this election.If not he will prove that he is really only after personal power and to further the interests of partitionists on both sides...Now what else do you want me to say...? Are these the opinions of someone who wants total surrender????

Will you shut the F**k up about the brain washed crap. If that is not playing the man and not the ball, I don't know what is. The problem with you is that you cannot see what you are doing but are blaming others about doing the same thing. I say what I say and know what I say and the reasons I say them. You, on the other hand, say one thing and do the other. Your namby pampy socialist views are clouding every judgement you make. The problem is that this socialist, love everything and everyone persona soon vanishes when you do not get your way. You even picked Kifeas as your member of the month, the most violent and rude and arrogant person to post on any forum, because he wants the same as you do, supposedly!
You agree, in kind, that there are conflict of interests in this whole affair but do not entertain the fact that separation might just be the right thing after all. You cannot see that the danger in insisting that a union MUST happen has a very real and present danger. You are like the Jehovah Witnesses that refuse to let their child have a blood transfusion even though it means that the child will die all because of some stupid belief.

I have old you before that you are putting he cart before the horse. You want us to agree to something before the mute points are ironed out. How can you ask that with a straight face. You point out all the pitfalls but then dismiss them and harp on about the 1960 constitution. You want to turn back time...then lets turn back time. Lets take all the people that made the millions after the intervention and give some of hat to the people that had to suffer the embargoes for decades. I will not list the other things that have been so unfair since that date but I hope you get the message, which I ma sure you will but will soon dismiss as your past history shows. You will of course say that these things just cannot be done...Of course they cannot and that is why we cannot turn back time either. If you haven't noticed, a lot of things have happened since then and all the privileges have been for the GCs and none for the TCs. You then go and shamelessly say that all the Cypriots suffered well I am afraid that some suffered a hell of a lot more than others did and I think you know who I mean. We have gone to the edge of extinction and back and have no intention of going that way again. Your idea of integration without proper preservation orders is completely misinformed and down right irresponsible. Now how about you tackling the issues and leaving out the lovey dovey stuff that does no one any good.

[Viewpoint]

I see...once again back to the same old Play-the -man-not- the -ball game...

When did I ever suggest that we should just abandon everything and unconditionally surrender???? Kikapu is in favour of a 2 state federal solution...And I favour a unitary state...My starting point is the 1960 constitution....The only agreement we have ever had as Cypriots,which is still in operation,sort of...I want an orderly return to the 1960 RoC...then measures put into place to foster understanding,respect,and trust...then collective action to make the 1960 contitution more democratic...leading to a totally democratic state run on human righst and equal opportunity for all principles...Those who accuse me of being a complete surrenderist are engaging in misinformation,knowingly or not...

I could choose to retaliate and accuse some TCs here for living in a timecapsule,being so brainwashed by their illinformed parents regarding the Cyprus problem,or simply being stooges of Chauvinistic unthinking Turkish nationalism...but I wouldn't dream of it...

I know we need to build trust (thank you Deniz for agreeing with me on most things) and I know that the entrenched fear of the EOKA and the TMT is very real for most people,including myself...And I agree that Tassos has to go before any concrete steps can be taken,not because I think he still harbours Enosis sentiments,but because he is too smelly for most TCs to accept.Impressions are everything in modern politicas,at best of times...At worst of times like in Cyprus impressions are more than everything...That is why Denktash had to go...If Tassos wants to open the way for a solution he will not recontest this election.If not he will prove that he is really only after personal power and to further the interests of partitionists on both sides...Now what else do you want me to say...? Are these the opinions of someone who wants total surrender????

Will you shut the F**k up about the brain washed crap. If that is not playing the man and not the ball, I don't know what is. The problem with you is that you cannot see what you are doing but are blaming others about doing the same thing. I say what I say and know what I say and the reasons I say them. You, on the other hand, say one thing and do the other. Your namby pampy socialist views are clouding every judgement you make. The problem is that this socialist, love everything and everyone persona soon vanishes when you do not get your way. You even picked Kifeas as your member of the month, the most violent and rude and arrogant person to post on any forum, because he wants the same as you do, supposedly!
You agree, in kind, that there are conflict of interests in this whole affair but do not entertain the fact that separation might just be the right thing after all. You cannot see that the danger in insisting that a union MUST happen has a very real and present danger. You are like the Jehovah Witnesses that refuse to let their child have a blood transfusion even though it means that the child will die all because of some stupid belief.

I have old you before that you are putting he cart before the horse. You want us to agree to something before the mute points are ironed out. How can you ask that with a straight face. You point out all the pitfalls but then dismiss them and harp on about the 1960 constitution. You want to turn back time...then lets turn back time. Lets take all the people that made the millions after the intervention and give some of hat to the people that had to suffer the embargoes for decades. I will not list the other things that have been so unfair since that date but I hope you get the message, which I ma sure you will but will soon dismiss as your past history shows. You will of course say that these things just cannot be done...Of course they cannot and that is why we cannot turn back time either. If you haven't noticed, a lot of things have happened since then and all the privileges have been for the GCs and none for the TCs. You then go and shamelessly say that all the Cypriots suffered well I am afraid that some suffered a hell of a lot more than others did and I think you know who I mean. We have gone to the edge of extinction and back and have no intention of going that way again. Your idea of integration without proper preservation orders is completely misinformed and down right irresponsible. Now how about you tackling the issues and leaving out the lovey dovey stuff that does no one any good.

Congratulations zan an excellent post, you have voiced what 90% of TCs think well done. These so called do gooders need to wake up and realize that without safety valves and provisions we will not change a thing, they should try putting these issues forward and then measure the love of their so called compatriots, get down to the nitty gritty and then you will see how true to form GCs really are.

[Kikapu]

Congratulations zan an excellent post, you have voiced what 90% of TCs think well done. These so called do gooders need to wake up and realize that without safety valves and provisions we will not change a thing, they should try putting these issues forward and then measure the love of their so called compatriots, get down to the nitty gritty and then you will see how true to form GCs really are.

Only few days ago, it was only 80% of TC's were in agreement with you. Today it has jumped to 90%. Don't tell me, tomorrow, it will be 120%.!!!

It appears that the Partitionist & Propaganda Department of the "TRNC" has now multiple VP's and Multiple Zan's. They just can't keep up with the "POISON" they are producing, to be handled by just 2 persons.!!

Fascism is on the march.!!

So just which "peace plan" do you all propose.??

If you said the AP, then that's where you guys are stuck, for a solution.

But of course, I forgot what my Cousin's husband said to me few weeks ago in Cyprus. Shall we once again, repeat just exactly what he said. Even though I did not like hearing what he had to say, in plain and clear language, that under no circumstances, they would ever be willing to have a settlement, no matter what the "TRNC" government said. That was just for public consumption and not the reality or the truth. So when the VP's and Zan's come on here, and start blowing smoke up peoples ass, all they doing is to lie through their asses. I respect the "husband" telling the truth, but I can't respect these Partitionist for not even having the integrity, to tell the truth. As the "husband" said in many words to me, that there was way too much money being made, by buying and selling Greek Cypriot land, "HARAM LAND", so why look for a settlement.

Oh by the way, their own land in the RoC, still remains intact in their names, so when ever there is a settlement, they will have their land back, but in the meantime, all those dealing with GC's lands in the "TRNC", will not want a settlement of any kind, unless they get to keep most of the GC land. They will want to make as much money as possible. Now lets see if the "Corrupt Partitionist" will come forward, and tell us the truth.

I personally will not be holding my breath, but rather my nose, with all the shit that they are going to say.

It will be a STINKER.!!

[bigOz]

Congratulations zan an excellent post, you have voiced what 90% of TCs think well done. These so called do gooders need to wake up and realize that without safety valves and provisions we will not change a thing, they should try putting these issues forward and then measure the love of their so called compatriots, get down to the nitty gritty and then you will see how true to form GCs really are.

Only few days ago, it was only 80% of TC's were in agreement with you. Today it has jumped to 90%. Don't tell me, tomorrow, it will be 120%.!!!

It appears that the Partitionist & Propaganda Department of the "TRNC" has now multiple VP's and Multiple Zan's. They just can't keep up with the "POISON" they are producing, to be handled by just 2 persons.!!

Fascism is on the march.!!

So just which "peace plan" do you all propose.??

If you said the AP, then that's where you guys are stuck, for a solution.

But of course, I forgot what my Cousin's husband said to me few weeks ago in Cyprus. Shall we once again, repeat just exactly what he said. Even though I did not like hearing what he had to say, in plain and clear language, that under no circumstances, they would ever be willing to have a settlement, no matter what the "TRNC" government said. That was just for public consumption and not the reality or the truth. So when the VP's and Zan's come on here, and start blowing smoke up peoples ass, all they doing is to lie through their asses. I respect the "husband" telling the truth, but I can't respect these Partitionist for not even having the integrity, to tell the truth. As the "husband" said in many words to me, that there was way too much money being made, by buying and selling Greek Cypriot land, "HARAM LAND", so why look for a settlement.

Oh by the way, their own land in the RoC, still remains intact in their names, so when ever there is a settlement, they will have their land back, but in the meantime, all those dealing with GC's lands in the "TRNC", will not want a settlement of any kind, unless they get to keep most of the GC land. They will want to make as much money as possible. Now lets see if the "Corrupt Partitionist" will come forward, and tell us the truth.

I personally will not be holding my breath, but rather my nose, with all the shit that they are going to say.

It will be a STINKER.!!

Kikapu, you obviously have a chip on your shoulder and feel its payback time. I do not know what your problem is and do not really care but you ar very unique in your thoughts as much as alone when it comes to TCs feelings at this time!

We are not discussing how specific individuals may feel, or aht their beliefs are. As much as some of the current available solutions proposed may well be far from my own ideals, I still have to be realistic and see how / why the TCs are feeling. That is the difference between me and many GCs who misinterpret my posts. A difference between a realist and an idealist if you like. More often than not - reality husrts and is not ideal!

Irrespective of whether 70%, 80% or 120%(?) of TCs are agreeing with it, most of what VP and Zan say is supported in general by the TCs. Understanding why, rather than denying and labelling the author might prove to be a lot more rewarding!

[Kikapu]

Congratulations zan an excellent post, you have voiced what 90% of TCs think well done. These so called do gooders need to wake up and realize that without safety valves and provisions we will not change a thing, they should try putting these issues forward and then measure the love of their so called compatriots, get down to the nitty gritty and then you will see how true to form GCs really are.

Only few days ago, it was only 80% of TC's were in agreement with you. Today it has jumped to 90%. Don't tell me, tomorrow, it will be 120%.!!!

It appears that the Partitionist & Propaganda Department of the "TRNC" has now multiple VP's and Multiple Zan's. They just can't keep up with the "POISON" they are producing, to be handled by just 2 persons.!!

Fascism is on the march.!!

So just which "peace plan" do you all propose.??

If you said the AP, then that's where you guys are stuck, for a solution.

But of course, I forgot what my Cousin's husband said to me few weeks ago in Cyprus. Shall we once again, repeat just exactly what he said. Even though I did not like hearing what he had to say, in plain and clear language, that under no circumstances, they would ever be willing to have a settlement, no matter what the "TRNC" government said. That was just for public consumption and not the reality or the truth. So when the VP's and Zan's come on here, and start blowing smoke up peoples ass, all they doing is to lie through their asses. I respect the "husband" telling the truth, but I can't respect these Partitionist for not even having the integrity, to tell the truth. As the "husband" said in many words to me, that there was way too much money being made, by buying and selling Greek Cypriot land, "HARAM LAND", so why look for a settlement.

Oh by the way, their own land in the RoC, still remains intact in their names, so when ever there is a settlement, they will have their land back, but in the meantime, all those dealing with GC's lands in the "TRNC", will not want a settlement of any kind, unless they get to keep most of the GC land. They will want to make as much money as possible. Now lets see if the "Corrupt Partitionist" will come forward, and tell us the truth.

I personally will not be holding my breath, but rather my nose, with all the shit that they are going to say.

It will be a STINKER.!!

Kikapu, you obviously have a chip on your shoulder and feel its payback time. I do not know what your problem is and do not really care but you ar very unique in your thoughts as much as alone when it comes to TCs feelings at this time!

We are not discussing how specific individuals may feel, or aht their beliefs are. As much as some of the current available solutions proposed may well be far from my own ideals, I still have to be realistic and see how / why the TCs are feeling. That is the difference between me and many GCs who misinterpret my posts. A difference between a realist and an idealist if you like. More often than not - reality husrts and is not ideal!

Irrespective of whether 70%, 80% or 120%(?) of TCs are agreeing with it, most of what VP and Zan say is supported in general by the TCs. Understanding why, rather than denying and labelling the author might prove to be a lot more rewarding!

Thank you for your response BigOz.

It's easy for VP to claim he represents all 100% of all the TC's. What he does not tell us is, what the reasons are.

I make my statements that fit the reasons as the reasons why majority of the TC's may not want a settlement, but VP and others, just make excuses as to what the reasons are. They can just cut the crap, and be as honest as my cousin's husband, and tell us what the real reasons are. I want them to stop pretending that they want a solution, when in fact, that is not the case, unless of course, they get to keep their "HARAM LAND". This is not going to be a good starting point, to have peace BigOz, so let them stop "kicking the car tyres", when they have no intentions, ever buying the car, unless of course they can get most of the car, for free.

I do not have a chip on my shoulder my friend. I'm just allergic to Liars and Fascists, that's all.

[Viewpoint]

Congratulations zan an excellent post, you have voiced what 90% of TCs think well done. These so called do gooders need to wake up and realize that without safety valves and provisions we will not change a thing, they should try putting these issues forward and then measure the love of their so called compatriots, get down to the nitty gritty and then you will see how true to form GCs really are.

Only few days ago, it was only 80% of TC's were in agreement with you. Today it has jumped to 90%. Don't tell me, tomorrow, it will be 120%.!!!

It appears that the Partitionist & Propaganda Department of the "TRNC" has now multiple VP's and Multiple Zan's. They just can't keep up with the "POISON" they are producing, to be handled by just 2 persons.!!

Fascism is on the march.!!

So just which "peace plan" do you all propose.??

If you said the AP, then that's where you guys are stuck, for a solution.

But of course, I forgot what my Cousin's husband said to me few weeks ago in Cyprus. Shall we once again, repeat just exactly what he said. Even though I did not like hearing what he had to say, in plain and clear language, that under no circumstances, they would ever be willing to have a settlement, no matter what the "TRNC" government said. That was just for public consumption and not the reality or the truth. So when the VP's and Zan's come on here, and start blowing smoke up peoples ass, all they doing is to lie through their asses. I respect the "husband" telling the truth, but I can't respect these Partitionist for not even having the integrity, to tell the truth. As the "husband" said in many words to me, that there was way too much money being made, by buying and selling Greek Cypriot land, "HARAM LAND", so why look for a settlement.

Oh by the way, their own land in the RoC, still remains intact in their names, so when ever there is a settlement, they will have their land back, but in the meantime, all those dealing with GC's lands in the "TRNC", will not want a settlement of any kind, unless they get to keep most of the GC land. They will want to make as much money as possible. Now lets see if the "Corrupt Partitionist" will come forward, and tell us the truth.

I personally will not be holding my breath, but rather my nose, with all the shit that they are going to say.

It will be a STINKER.!!

You are the only one stinking up this forum. Zan and I have on a number of occssions said where we stand under the current circumstances, we have even agreed with you on certain issues but all you do is ignore these facts and try to belittle and undermine our arguements, people are not stupid and they can see where you stand which is very firmly on the side of the GCs, your attitude only helps to alienate TCs even further from GCs, you should be proud of yourself for understanding us and our concerns, ensuring they stay fresh in our minds as why unfication is not really the best alternative.

[pitsilos]

what you and zan fail to see is the following...on the GC side there are more cypriots and far less extemists, and on your side the extermists outnumber the Cypriots by far...the only people from your side that are proud to be called cypriots is no more than 2, Kikapu and Bir...and on our side over, and this is a rough estimation, 95%...

so in short, vips and zan, the majority of people in this foum are cypriots...and once again the minority is trying to force the majority...like old times

ps...lets not twist this I am a turkish cypriot or a greek cypriot...its simply CYPRIOT and what ever later

[MR-from-NG]

Kikapu wrote,

I do not have a chip on my shoulder my friend. I'm just allergic to Liars and Fascists, that's all.

kikapu,

Without exagguration I can honestly say that VP and Zan is the voice of at least 95% of the TC population.

From your above comment this percentage would all be "liars and fascist", this perhaps explains your hate for your fellow TCs and love and respect for your fellow GCs. After all the Greeks are the chosen ones and superior in every sense of the word to us Turks, their record of human rights and democratic values are exemplary. Well, at least according to you they are