Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

Anyone who opposes our national sovereignity and independence in Cyprus is the criminal. To understand how and why you need to first put down your ego and racism and learn to respect that Cyprus is our`s aswell.

[zan]

The killings came into discussion when Murataga mentioned it several times. He insisted to get an answer to that, so I gave it to him. I really do not wish to discuss in this tone, but at the same time I don't want Murataga to believe that by maintaining that attidute against us he will actually gain anything.

If he wants to fight us to steal our homes then he should know we will fight back in various ways. Thats the message, and it should be loud and clear.

What I want is democracy and human rights for all in a free truly united Cyprus. But if thats denied, and TCs say that we can get our land back only over their dead bodies, well, that how we will, since that is the only option they allow.

That could have been me saying that at three years old in Cyprus...In Lefkosa...Shame you did not think of that then ey!.

Just because Murataga lost his temper and said a few things, you guys jump in and want to fight. We have no doubt in what is waiting for us with your vengeance. We defend ourselves when you attacked civilians with your army and we still get the blame and now you talk about revenge again. Turkey is going nowhere whether you or I like it so dream on. The EU will stop both of us from any hostilities and will also insure partition in a country where unification is impossible. I used o think that Turkey might desert us but have found out since that she never can for various reasons. You only have a few choices really. One is to stop your intransigence and give peace a chance with our rights intact and stop this EU human rights shit. Two is to have us recognised and have us in power as your neighbor in good will. Three is to see the Turkish flag replace the TRNC/KKTC flag on the mountain.
You can make up all the other excuses you want but these are the only options. Turkey will be going nowhere unless they know that we the TCs are safe and a good ally to them. See what you want to see and score all the worthless points you want but what else do you think is going to happen. The whole of Europe waging war on Turkey.........I don't think so.

[Piratis]

Anyone who opposes our national sovereignity and independence in Cyprus is the criminal. To understand how and why you need to first put down your ego and racism and learn to respect that Cyprus is our`s aswell.

I never claimed that Cyprus is not yours as well if you feel as Cypriot. You are the one who has to put down your racism and learn to respect that Kerynia, Famagusta, Morfou, Lapithos, Karpasia and every other place in the now occupied areas is ours as well. Not only that, but we are the legal majority in those places, for 1000s of years.

So you accusing me about racism is the biggest joke ever, since you are the biggest racist, supporting things like ethnic cleansing, crimes, human rights violations and illegalities.

[zan]

Anyone who opposes our national sovereignity and independence in Cyprus is the criminal. To understand how and why you need to first put down your ego and racism and learn to respect that Cyprus is our`s aswell.

I never claimed that Cyprus is not yours as well if you feel as Cypriot. You are the one who has to put down your racism and learn to respect that Kerynia, Famagusta, Morfou, Lapithos, Karpasia and every other place in the now occupied areas is ours as well. Not only that, but we are the legal majority in those places, for 1000s of years.

So you accusing me about racism is the biggest joke ever, since you are the biggest racist, supporting things like ethnic cleansing, crimes, human rights violations and illegalities.

And you trying to hide yours that is writen all over the news papers of the day.

Although the Republic of Cyprus, founded in 1960, ended in 1963, when the Greek organs of government, administration and legislation proceeded to disregard the Turkish participatory rights as guaranteed by the Constitution of 1960, in the same resolution mentioned above (Resolution 186 of 1964), UN Security Council referred to the Government of Cyprus in a way which implied that the government manned only now by the Greek Cypriots, was the legitimate Government of Cyprus. Since then, the Greek Cypriots continue to usurp the titles of the bi-communal state. In fact, they are ‘the government of a state whose territory is restricted to the southern part of Cyprus and whose people are restricted to the Greek Cypriots living there’ (Heinze, 1997: 187). The Republic of Cyprus of today was created

[Piratis]

Republic of Cyprus is alive and progressing despite the barbarian raids and invasions. Recently we even entered the EU, unlike some others who are begging for it and they will continue to do so for many years.

Yes, your illegal attempt to partition Cyprus that started since the 50s and continues non-stop until today, has consequences. What did you expect, to commit crimes and get no response? Actually you have seen nothing yet. If you don't give us back our land you should expect much worst.

[zan]

Republic of Cyprus is alive and progressing despite the barbarian raids and invasions. Recently we even entered the EU, unlike some others who are begging for it and they will continue to do so for many years.

Yes, your illegal attempt to partition Cyprus that started since the 50s and continues non-stop until today, has consequences. What did you expect, to commit crimes and get no response? Actually you have seen nothing yet. If you don't give us back our land you should expect much worst.

We will get much worse if we give you land or not so what is our choice. We will fight for recognition and tell our story. The story that you are so scared of that you put money and effort into trying to cover up. We have technology know that will allow us to tell our story how ever much money and time you put into trying to stop it. Mark my word that that story will get out.

[Murataga]

There is no end in sight for your mambo jumbo... The crimes, murders and illegalities against us forced us to gather in a safe living zone in the North. RoC was illegally invaded by your lot. We were kicked out of it and hence established our own sovereign independent state. If you do not respect our independence and sovereignity you should be prepared to face the consequences.

[Murataga]

Last post was for Piratis

[Piratis]

Here we go again the Turks who commited 99% of the crimes in Cyprus to try to blame us, to find an excuse for yet more crimes and illegalities.

First of all I have to make something very clear:

I believe that we should leave the past behind, we should forgive each other, stop all illegalities and move ahead with a united democratic country without racist discriminations and with respect to the human rights of all Cypriots.

Unfortunately I notice that there some people that insist on using a tiny and selective part of the past as an excuse for the continuation of illegalities and their demand for a "solution" that will be based on racist discrimination of people based on their ethnic background (which is something that exists in no democratic country in the world)

To those people Greek Cypriots deserved the violations of their human rights for the last 32 years and they deserve to be convicted for eternal violation of their human rights in a country that discriminates against them because of their race.

The fact is however that Turks in Cyprus have committed 100 times more crimes against Greek Cypriots than the other way around.

Greek Cypriots have been the majority on the island of Cyprus for 3000+ years. Their interaction with Turks starts in the 15th century, were the Turks attacked our island. This also answers the question "Who started it" for anybody that thinks that this is important:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.

So now it is clear how the interaction of Turks with Greek Cypriots started in Cyprus, and the question "Who started it" is answered as well.

What followed were 300 years of Ottoman rule in Cyprus. During these 3 centuries Greek Cypriots were oppressed second category citizens. They had to pay multiple times the taxes of muslims and their testimony in courts was not accepted. Whenever they tried to revolt against their oppressors they were slaughtered.

So here we have a period were Turks were oppressing and killing Greeks in Cyprus. The result of this period was 300 years of oppression against GCs and 10s of thousands of Greek Cypriots dead.

The next "round" of conflict between the two communities was at the end of the British rule in Cyprus, and then from 63 to 68. During this period extremists from both sides were committing crimes and atrocities.

This is the only period that TCs remember, but even here they remember only their own casualties and not the crimes that they had committed against GCs.

So this is a period were both sides had about an equal number of casualties, some 100s for each side.

Then in 1974 the illegal coupists overthrow our president and Turkey found the excuse to invade Cyprus. No TC was killed by the coupists before the invasion had started, but only after.
The result of the coup/invasion was 6000 GCs dead and 200.000 GCs ethnically cleansed. On the other side the TCs had only a couple of 100s of victims.

The next period is the 32 years of illegal occupation and insistence from Turkey to violate international law and human rights. This continues until today.

Conclusion:
1) The Turks "started it" in the 15th century
2) The Turks have committed much much more crimes against Greek Cypriots.
3) The Turks insist on their crimes today
4) Greek Cypriots have committed crimes as well, but only a tiny fraction of the crimes that the Turks have committed.

Still, Greek Cypriots are more than willing to put all these behind as long as we are not provoked by people that remember only the 1% of history that suits that in order to prove that Greek Cypriots are the evil people that deserve even more crimes against them.

Therefore I ask from people on this forum to either:

1) Leave the past behind. Do not try to excuse crimes and illegalities in 2006 with events that happened in the past. Concentrate on how we can find a solution that will respect all Cypriots equally without racist discriminations and human right violations.

Or, if doing (1) is impossible for you then at least:

2) If you believe that the past should be used to determine who is the "good" and who is the "bad" one and that this should be the basis of solving the Cyprus problem (instead of democracy, human rights and legality, that I propose) then at least use the whole history and not the tiny bits that suit you.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

We will get much worse if we give you land or not so what is our choice. We will fight for recognition and tell our story. The story that you are so scared of that you put money and effort into trying to cover up. We have technology know that will allow us to tell our story how ever much money and time you put into trying to stop it. Mark my word that that story will get out.

The web propaganda days of Turkish Cypriots pushing for their own racist state has been and gone Zan. ATCA haven't done much lately have they, I think they have truly shot themselves in the foot with the amount of racist ultra nationalists they have as members - nobody is in their right mind is going to read their forums and give them respect.

As for embargoed.org - the "human rights" group, well they seemed to have reached their menopause and dried up too.

When you say "technology that will allow you to tell your story", im assuming you mean the internet. Well if it is, the Turkish Cypriot community have f*cked up, letting ultra nationalists speak for them on the internet, the people who matter dont take them seriously anymore. Just like the whole 'TRNC' flag at Arsenal's football ground being used as a political statement - do you know how many people are pissed with that Turkish Cypriot using the ground as a political platform. Not everybody is as thick as you Zan - some people arent so thick and recognised outright ultra-nationalism when they see it.