Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

Your social status was next to barn yard animals when we came to Cyprus let alone owning the island.

Farm Animals?? You fucking racist cunt!

[pitsilos]

Sotos wrote-

You invaded and expanded against us and imposed your rule on us

We took the island from the Venetians not you. Your social status was next to barn yard animals when we came to Cyprus let alone owning the island. You were granted autonomy, dignitiy and representation upon our arrival after centuries.

so mutaga which one is you?

[Murataga]

So, do you deny that your social status was next to nothing before the Ottomans under the Venetian rule? GCs were not allowed representation, GCs were not allowed to own land, GCs were not permitted to freely practice their religion and the autonomy of the Orthodox Church was fully abolished under the Venetian rule.

"The Rise and Fall of the Cyprus Republic" by Kyriacos C. Markides, Yale University Press

“The Turkish Cypriot conquest can be thought of as a turning point in the evolution of Cypriot society. Its effects were tantamount to a true revolution, but a revolution imposed from the outside. The conquest brought about three fundamental changes in the Cypriot social structure whose effects are still deeply felt: (1) the destruction of European feudalism (mainly by Franks and Venetians) (2) the restoration of the Greek Orthodox church to its former position of dominance, and (3) the settlement on Cyprus of a sizable Turkish minority.

The Turks once they conquered Cyprus, either killed or expelled the European nobles. The feudal system was abolished and land was distributed to the former serfs, who were Orthodox Christians, and to the newly arrived Muslim settlers. The Turkish conquest, furthermore, created ethnic heterogeneity. Turkish migrants settled in Cyprus, and gradually a sizeable Turkish community was formed, eventually composing 18 percent of the total population.

Last, and the most significant, the Turkish conquest restored the Greek Orthodox church to its former princely status and endowed it with unprecedented secular and spiritual powers. The authority vacuum created by the abolition of the aristocratic order was filled by the church, which became the most central institution in Greek Cypriot society. The Turks recognized only Orthodoxy as the official non-Muslim religion of the island, and they persecuted the Catholics. In short, the Turks reversed the situation that existed under feudalism. In addition, the sultan vested the church with special administrative privileges, such as collecting state taxes and officially representing the Orthodox Greek s in Istanbul. The archbishop was elevated to the status of Ethnarc, national leader or political spokesman for the Greek population. Consequently, the church of Cyprus became under Turkish rule the most authoritative and powerful institution on the island. It has been said that during the eighteenth century the archbishop’s political authority was almost equal, if not superior, t that of the Turkish Governor (Ref. below)”

Claude D. Cobham, Exerpta Cypria (Cambridge, Eng.: Cambridge University Press, 1908), pp. 458-59

[Piratis]

First of all, no matter which empire rules Cyprus by imposing its rule via brute force, Cyprus belongs to Cypriots and not to any Venetians or Ottomans or whatever.

Secondly, the Venetians were bad, but the Ottomans were worst. At least the Venetians let us live. The Ottomans butchered almost half the population when they first arrived and they continued in the same barbaric way whenever Cypriots revolted against them.

What Ottomans cared about was to exploit Cyprus and Cypriots to the fullest, just like any other foreign ruler.

Cyprus does not belong neither to the Ottomans nor to any of the other former foreign rulers of Cyprus. The remains of those rulers can assimilate into Cypriots if they wish, no problem with that, but non of them can have any claims over the whole or parts of of our island. Any such claims are illegal and are imposed via brute force.

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

[Murataga]

Playing a broken record with faulty references.... Answer the question:

So, do you deny that your social status was next to nothing before the Ottomans under the Venetian rule?

And that,

GCs were not allowed representation, GCs were not allowed to own land, GCs were not permitted to freely practice their religion and the autonomy of the Orthodox Church was fully abolished under the Venetian rule.

Do you deny that you got all of these after the Ottomans?

[zan]

First of all, no matter which empire rules Cyprus by imposing its rule via brute force, Cyprus belongs to Cypriots and not to any Venetians or Ottomans or whatever.

Secondly, the Venetians were bad, but the Ottomans were worst. At least the Venetians let us live. The Ottomans butchered almost half the population when they first arrived and they continued in the same barbaric way whenever Cypriots revolted against them.

What Ottomans cared about was to exploit Cyprus and Cypriots to the fullest, just like any other foreign ruler.

Cyprus does not belong neither to the Ottomans nor to any of the other former foreign rulers of Cyprus. The remains of those rulers can assimilate into Cypriots if they wish, no problem with that, but non of them can have any claims over the whole or parts of of our island. Any such claims are illegal and are imposed via brute force.

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I wonder if they tried diplomatic channels first.


You keep coming out with this rubbish that no body cares about. We, the Turkish Cypriots of Cyprus have every right to be there and since your attempt at modern day genocide, of which I was a generation and am not paying some false sympathy and claim from hundreds of years ago, the situation stands that we were forced into 3% of the island and further attempts at trying to wipe us out were made after which the PRESENT day situation exists.

[Piratis]

Our status was next to nothing during the Ottomans as well, and even worst since since I consider "dead" to be even a lower "status".

Ottomans used Orthodox priests as mere tax collectors. Thats why they put them there, not because they gave a fuck about Cypriots. That was the way they run their empire in general. In fact whenever the Turks even suspected that the Orthodox priests would go out of line they would simply cut their heads off and replace them with others.

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821

And in general I don't see the point you are trying to make. That Venetians were worst than Ottomans? Even if that was the case what does it have to do with the fact that Cyprus belongs to Cypriots regardless of who is imposing its rule on us via brute force?

[zan]

Boringgggggggggggg!

[askimwos]

Murataga, what your source states is far away from the freedom that the Cypriots wanted. Please do not try to portrait the Ottomans as the ones that gave Cypriots their freedom.

The use of local leaders was a common practice for the Ottoman way of aministration. All they wanted was to have slaves working and producing in order to rip them off with heavy taxes. The church was the obvious institution to use as their tax collectors since there was no other institution on the island that could play this role. Personally I have no respect for the church and the way they acted during the Ottoman years. Besides some excemptions the church leaders were nothing more than opportunists that were quick to alihn with the occuppiers and were in full cooperation with the oppressors.

Also the fact that the Ottomans made a virtual allocation of land to the Cypriots is also an argument that does not stand. Again this was the way of the Ottomans in order to collect more taxes. The more the production, the more the taxes they collected. Needless to say that the right to property ownership as we know it. Once a person died then his property was returned to the Gate.

The oppression of the Cypriots by the Ottomans is well documented by many historians. The Cypriots revolted many times during the Ottoman occupation of the island and they paid the price a number of times.

So Murataga don't be naive to conclude that the Ottomans were a blessing for the Cypriots because history has shown that people don;t revolt when they are happy and are not severely oppressed. It seems that your nationalistic views make your mind blur to that extend that you made yourself believe that the Ottomans were a gift of God to the Cypriots.

[Piratis]

First of all, no matter which empire rules Cyprus by imposing its rule via brute force, Cyprus belongs to Cypriots and not to any Venetians or Ottomans or whatever.

Secondly, the Venetians were bad, but the Ottomans were worst. At least the Venetians let us live. The Ottomans butchered almost half the population when they first arrived and they continued in the same barbaric way whenever Cypriots revolted against them.

What Ottomans cared about was to exploit Cyprus and Cypriots to the fullest, just like any other foreign ruler.

Cyprus does not belong neither to the Ottomans nor to any of the other former foreign rulers of Cyprus. The remains of those rulers can assimilate into Cypriots if they wish, no problem with that, but non of them can have any claims over the whole or parts of of our island. Any such claims are illegal and are imposed via brute force.

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

I wonder if they tried diplomatic channels first.


You keep coming out with this rubbish that no body cares about. We, the Turkish Cypriots of Cyprus have every right to be there and since your attempt at modern day genocide, of which I was a generation and am not paying some false sympathy and claim from hundreds of years ago, the situation stands that we were forced into 3% of the island and further attempts at trying to wipe us out were made after which the PRESENT day situation exists.

Here we go with Zan's usual lies.

Genocide: During the communal conflict a same amount of GCs and TCs was killed, some 100s from each side. In 1974 though, 6000 GCs were killed and 200.000 more ethnically cleansed. So it is clear who did the modern day genocide. The same barbarians that did it previously as well.

The 3% lie: This is another lie of the Turkish propaganda who is trying to create stories to excuse their crimes against us. It was proven wrong in this thread: http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... light=lies but you keep recycling it.

Beyond that, nobody said you are not Cypriots if thats how you feel. (some apparently don't though) You have the right to be equal citizens of this country, but not any right to split it and occupy any part of it against the will of the great majority of Cypriots.