Cyprus-Forum.com

[LENA]

Well said axilleasK!!!!

[Murataga]

Piratis wrote-

During the 1000s of years of Cyprus history there was always one Cypriot people. If some foreign invaders preferred to remain foreigners and not to assimilate into Cypriots, this doesn't change this fact. If you prefer not to be part of the Cypriot nation but to be a foreigner that simply happens to be in Cyprus, thats your problem.

You mean “Cypriot” and “Cyprus” as Papadopoulos referred to last year during his visit to Greece when he declared "Cyprus" is continuing to "fight for the national and physical survival of Greek Hellenism" and that "Cypriots" "are forward defenders of Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension". Or the one Makarios referred to 36 years ago:

14 March 1971, Archbishop Makarios III speech at Yialousa
"Cyprus is Greek. Cyprus has been Greek since the dawn of its history, and it will remain Greek. Greek and undivided we have taken it over, Greek and undivided we shall preserve it. Greek and undivided we shall deliver it to Greece."

Same tune, just a different singer. TCs know very well of your definition of what “Cyprus” and a “Cypriot” is, go fool someone else… TCs are the true defenders of Cypriotism and the cold knife stabbed right into the heart of the Hellenization and ENOSIS of Cyprus. You will not prevail as long as we exist.



Piratis wrote-

Quote:

The two communities were political equals and each existed as a political entity, just as both large and small states exist within the structure of the European Union.

You are making things up. The TC minority was simply given some extra privileges and some veto powers. It was not given any separate sovereignty or anything else comparable to a separate state.

To the contrary, it was not mentioned anywhere in the constitution that the TCs were a minority as you imply, so TCs were officially not a minority. They were politically equal partners in the RoC. This was guaranteed by a number of articles in the constitution which the GC leadership destroyed in their crusade of ENOSIS. Separate municipals (created in the five main towns- Nicosia, Limmasol, Famagusta, Paphos, and Kyrenia - of Cyprus by their Turkish inhabitants), separate parliamentarians (elected per communal citizenship and not territory), a reserved vice-president post that could veto the President are just a few examples..

All elected officials were elected based on communal citizenship not territory! So, GCs could not vote for a TC mayor, vice-president, parliamentarian and vice versa. Just as a German can not vote for a mayor, vice-president, parliamentarian in Greece. President of the House of Representatives, who had to be a Greek, was elected by the Greek Members of the House and the Vice-President, who had to be a Turk, was elected by the Turkish Members. Any law imposing taxation and any law relating to Municipalities and any modification of the Electoral Law required separate majorities of the Greek and Turkish Members of the House of Representatives taking part in the vote. The Constitution separated the administration of Justice on the basis of communal criteria by providing that in all cases, civil and criminal, a Greek had to be tried by a Greek Judge, a Turk by a Turkish Judge and that cases, however trivial, involving both Greeks and Turks, had to be tried by a mixed Court composed of Greek and Turkish Judges. The Constitution provided that there shall be two Communal Chambers, one Greek and one Turkish, each having jurisdiction in matters of religion, education, cultural affairs and personal status over members of its respective community, as well as control over communal co-operative societies.

You want to point to an orange an call it an apple be my guest. Calling TCs a minority in Cyprus is same as calling Greece in the EU a minority. Greeks are fewer in the EU but they are a separate and a politically equal entity. Greece does not however have the same constitutional rights because the agreements of the EU takes into account the fact that there are more, say, Germans than Greeks in the EU. The only difference in the situation of TCs was that the community was scattered throughout the island where an EU member has defined borders. Of course today the situation and the circumstances are quite different.

[Kifeas]

You mean “Cypriot” and “Cyprus” as Papadopoulos referred to last year during his visit to Greece when he declared "Cyprus" is continuing to "fight for the national and physical survival of Greek Hellenism" and that "Cypriots" "are forward defenders of Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension". Or the one Makarios referred to 36 years ago:

Murataga, do you have any reference to prove that Papadopoulos indeed said what you have posted above, in the way you posted it?

The reason I ask you for this, is because the above words do not make sense, and I find it impossible to believe that Papadopoulos made them in such a way.

What he may have said is that "Cypriots are continuing to fight for the national and physical survival of Hellenism in Cyprus," and not the way you have posted it!

I am waiting to see your references for the quotes you have provided above, attributed to Papadopoulos.

[Get Real!]

Calling TCs a minority in Cyprus is same as calling Greece in the EU a minority. Greeks are fewer in the EU but they are a separate and a politically equal entity. Greece does not however have the same constitutional rights because the agreements of the EU takes into account the fact that there are more, say, Germans than Greeks in the EU.

You are utilizing a common TC misconception of comparing the EU with the constitution of a country (Cyprus). The how and why the EU is run is totally irrelevant to the constitution of any country in the world. The EU is a voluntary club of members with custom designed rules and regulations, incentives, penalties, etc. Don’t confuse the two please to “support” your case because you simply cannot.

There is absolutely NOTHING equal about the TC and GC communities. The TC community "TRNC" is a very small, inefficient, incompetent, and irresponsible community with a next to zero contribution to Cyprus unfortunately so do us all a favor and quit flogging a dead horse.

[Kifeas]

Furthermore, what are you disputing from what Piratis said above?

Are you disputing the fact that the TCs are a numerical minority, since I am sure this is what Piratis meant? Aren't the TCs a (numerical) minority? Do you know what the term “minority” means?

Are you disputing the fact that the TCs were not given any so-called separate sovereignty rights, under the 1960 constitution? Have they been given such rights, yes or no? Do you know what sovereignty means?

[Piratis]

Murataga, regarding to Cypriots and Hellenism, everything is very clear:

After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.

Therefore Cyprus has its own distinctive culture (= unique), just like Cretans have their own, Sicilians their own etc.

If some Muslims move to Sicily and refuse to mix with the locals and become Sicilians themselves, would that mean that there is no Sicilian culture and people, because the Muslims are different and Sicily is part of Italy? Should these Muslims then be granted a part of Sicily?

So yes, the Cypriot culture is a version of a Hellenic one, and it has been so for 1000s of years. How the existence of a minority of Turks on the island change this fact? Nobody forced you to follow the language or religion that the people of Cyprus follow. You have the right to be as different as you want, and even deny that you are Cypriot. But this doesn't mean that Cypriot people do not exist because you don't feel like one, and certainly it doesn't give you any right to steal our land.

About TCs not being a minority I will not waste my time. TCs are the 18% therefore a minority. The fact that the British gave to them more rights than what a minority should have in order to be more efficient in their divide and rule policies, doesn't change the very simple fact that 18% is a minority.

[zan]

The term "Cypriot" defines somebody who lives in Cyprus. Does not define an ethnic origin. It's the same as the term "Cretan" or "Pelloponesian".
In the US of a they are millions of people with different ethnic origins yet they call all call themselves "Americans" . The dissapointing fact is that TC's prefer to call themselves "Turks" than "Cypriots" . They prefer to stay in captivity under the rule of a foreign nation than to be a member of the community.
They prefer to violate human rights, expoit other people's properties and live as outlaws in their hideout.
They keep hiding in the past to find excuses for their present situation.
Cyprus, like the USA is a country with people from different ethnic origins. History tells us that when these people co operate they perform miracles. TC's on the other hand care only for themselves and NOT for the whole community.
All of the people of GREEK ethnic origin prefer to call ourselves "Cypriots" and NOT Greek-Cypriots. the fact that we have Greek origin does not make us puppets of the Greek goverment unlike what's happening in the North occupied part of the island.
Nobody can make a decision even for the tie he will wear unless he's got the approval of the Turkish goverment.
Imagine 200.000 people living together with 40.000 troops! that's a soldier for every 5 people!
What can somebody think about the situation in the North?
Can these people act by themselves? Can they express their own will? I doubt that!

So what you are saying is that in 1963 it was not just a small number of GCs that attacked and killed the TCs but it was the entire race. Can they act for themselves. If you want to believe that Greece has no say in what goes on in the south then do so but don't ask the rest of us to think the same. When these so called Cypriots pushed us into 3% of the island and then tried to starve us out, where were all these Cypriots. Living it up on our land, that’s where. You only bleat now when it has happened to you and then ask for land that does not belong to you. We are now in 37% of our land not "RoC". We too have right to this land in blood and circumstance.

[Murataga]

Piratis wrote-

the Cypriot culture is a version of a Hellenic one, and it has been so for 1000s of years.

You and any GC is more than welcomed to believe, live and act so. I really don`t give a sh.. about how much GCs Hellenize, baptize or whatever -ize they want. But the minute they try to impose, dominate or expand on the other Cypriots, the TCs, they better be prepared to face the consequences.

[Sotos]

Cypriots where here long before you and your kind came Mr. Murataga ! You invaded and expanded against us and imposed your rule on us.

[miltiades]

Murataga , refering no doubt to the true Cypriots such as Birkibrisly and Kikapu . I second that .

"""TCs are the true defenders of Cypriotism and the cold knife stabbed right into the heart of the Hellenization and ENOSIS of Cyprus. You will not prevail as long as we exist. """