Cyprus-Forum.com

[Limassolean]

The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is a Turkish state home to the Turks of Cyprus. It appears that some people in this forum are living in a dream world. We Turks of Cyprus have our own state and will continue to live under Turkish sovereignty.

You can live with reality or in an imaginary world ... you can even come visit the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus ... after all, we Turks are very hospital people and don't discriminate.

Hos Geldiniz sefa getirdiniz.

Haydi evallaha.

With all due respect to you mate. I think you live in dreams!

But in Democracy you are allowed to!

[T_C]

The only way the "TRNC" can function as an "independent" state is if Turkey continues to prop it up with millions of dollars courtesy of the USA. Is all Turkey wants is a base on the island, she will dump you lot and negotiate to keep enough of Cyprus for her own needs in order to get into the EU.

Don't give us Constitution crap - you are not supposed to have 40,000 troops on the island.

Wishfull thinking...

Turkey didn't even open her ports to the RoC for the EU let alone "dumping us". Turkey would never sell out TCs or Cyprus, there are too many people who just wouldn't let that happen. Whatever the costs, EU or no EU!

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

after all, we Turks are very hospital people and don't discriminate.

Tell that to the minorities in Turkey lol - or the people who are made to have Turkish names!

[zan]

Hmmmmm ... we must be reading a different history. I try to keep my sources diverse, not to be shaded with any particular bias. Here is a good examle by Sir George Hill:

But at no time has the island [Cyprus] been a constituent part of Hellenic Greece. It was absorbed, along with, but not as an integral part of, Greece proper and teh Aegean area, by the Byzantine Empire. Its church was an autocephalous member of the Holy Eastern orthodox Church, and thus religion combined with language to foster the idea that Cypriots were Greek in Origin.

So your source is a a British colonialist that wrote some "history" to explain the colonial rule of Britain over Cyprus? So maybe according to him one day the great majority of Cyprus suddenly started to speak Greek, right?

Here is some much more reliable history from
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cytoc.html


First Greeks in Cyprus:

After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.

First Turks in Cyprus:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

Ahhhh ... unfortunately, the bastardised Republic of Cyprus is recognised even though its existence is in direct non-compliance with its constitution. Your institutions have passed resolutions calling for the union of our island with Greece and your president is an EOKA member who has sworn his allegiance to a cause that defies every ounce of justice the original constitution championed.

How ironic that your logic refutes your very own argument.

EOKA fought against the colonialist, and union with Greece has been our right. http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm Go there to see that " integration into an independent State" is one of the "the three legitimate options" for decolonization of a territory, if thats what the majority of the population wanted. The fact that this was denied to us by the colonialists is a direct violation of our rights.

After 1960 we reluctantly accepted what was forced on us and there were no "resolutions calling for the union of our island with Greece". You pulled that out of your ass?

Accounted for by our veto that your Makarios tried to ride over with his EOKA army of murderers. Your rights were catered for in the constitution and you chose to ignore it but are now asking us to adhere to it and you use it as a pathetic excuse as to why the TRNC/KKTC is not legal. If you negate the treaty then you cannot use it.

[Get Real!]

Accounted for by our veto that your Makarios tried to ride over with his EOKA army of murderers. Your rights were catered for in the constitution and you chose to ignore it but are now asking us to adhere to it and you use it as a pathetic excuse as to why the TRNC/KKTC is not legal. If you negate the treaty then you cannot use it.

You should read up on Partnership law and specifically about what happens when one of the partners abandons the Partnership...

[zan]

Accounted for by our veto that your Makarios tried to ride over with his EOKA army of murderers. Your rights were catered for in the constitution and you chose to ignore it but are now asking us to adhere to it and you use it as a pathetic excuse as to why the TRNC/KKTC is not legal. If you negate the treaty then you cannot use it.

You should read up on Partnership law and specifically about what happens when one of the partners abandons the Partnership...

That tack from the GC administration has been tried and found to be wanting for many years now.

O.F.: And is it true that you deprived them of many constitutional privileges, Beatitude? M.: I deprived them of nothing. I simply complained about those privileges because they only served to hamper the functioning of the state. The Constitution provides that they be represented in the government at the ratio of thirty percent. And very often the Turkish Cypriots didn't have people capable of filling that thirty percent. There was, for example, a post that I could have been filled by an intelligent Greek and it had to be given to an illiterate Turk just because he was a Turk. Once they voted against taxes. I tried to explain to them that a state can't survive if the citizens don't pay taxes, and they refused anyway. So I forced them to pay all the same. Was that an abuse? Another time, when I was about to go to Belgrade for the conference of nonaligned countries, Mr. Denktash tried to stop me from going by exercising his veto power. I told him, "Exercise it all you like. I'm going just the same." Was that an abuse?'

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/makarios ... allaci.htm

[Southerner]

How many Turkish Cypriots have left the isalnd since 1974? aren't many of the Turks now living in the occupied north mainland Turks?

[Get Real!]

O.F.: And is it true that you deprived them of many constitutional privileges, Beatitude? M.: I deprived them of nothing. I simply complained about those privileges because they only served to hamper the functioning of the state. The Constitution provides that they be represented in the government at the ratio of thirty percent. And very often the Turkish Cypriots didn't have people capable of filling that thirty percent. There was, for example, a post that I could have been filled by an intelligent Greek and it had to be given to an illiterate Turk just because he was a Turk. Once they voted against taxes. I tried to explain to them that a state can't survive if the citizens don't pay taxes, and they refused anyway. So I forced them to pay all the same. Was that an abuse? Another time, when I was about to go to Belgrade for the conference of nonaligned countries, Mr. Denktash tried to stop me from going by exercising his veto power. I told him, "Exercise it all you like. I'm going just the same." Was that an abuse?'

Thanks for that Zan, makes perfect sense to me and a MUST read for anyone who has any fantasies about ever offering the TC's veto power again.

[zan]

O.F.: And is it true that you deprived them of many constitutional privileges, Beatitude? M.: I deprived them of nothing. I simply complained about those privileges because they only served to hamper the functioning of the state. The Constitution provides that they be represented in the government at the ratio of thirty percent. And very often the Turkish Cypriots didn't have people capable of filling that thirty percent. There was, for example, a post that I could have been filled by an intelligent Greek and it had to be given to an illiterate Turk just because he was a Turk. Once they voted against taxes. I tried to explain to them that a state can't survive if the citizens don't pay taxes, and they refused anyway. So I forced them to pay all the same. Was that an abuse? Another time, when I was about to go to Belgrade for the conference of nonaligned countries, Mr. Denktash tried to stop me from going by exercising his veto power. I told him, "Exercise it all you like. I'm going just the same." Was that an abuse?'

Thanks for that Zan, makes perfect sense to me and a MUST read for anyone who has any fantasies about ever offering the TC's veto power again.

And for those that think they can trust the GC administration.

[Kifeas]

Hmmmmm ... we must be reading a different history. I try to keep my sources diverse, not to be shaded with any particular bias. Here is a good examle by Sir George Hill:

But at no time has the island [Cyprus] been a constituent part of Hellenic Greece. It was absorbed, along with, but not as an integral part of, Greece proper and teh Aegean area, by the Byzantine Empire. Its church was an autocephalous member of the Holy Eastern orthodox Church, and thus religion combined with language to foster the idea that Cypriots were Greek in Origin.

This single paragraph above -which ever since has become the famous chewing gum of the Turks, is enough to put a huge question mark on George Hill's credibility as a history writer.

When he wrote his "famous" "history" of Cyprus book, some 200 years ago, the concept of a “Hellenic Greece” to which he refers had not ever existed, for Cyprus to have had been a constituent part of it.

First of all, what does “Hellenic Greece” means? Can we make use of the term “Turkish Turkey?” They are both meaningless!


Second, the concept of a unitary nation-state called Greece, has only appeared for the first time in history after 1830! Before that, we can only speak about a so-called Hellenic word, which encompasses all the various places, regions, cities, etc, whose people had a Greek-centred cultural identity. They did not constitute one single and unified political entity, in the sense in which George Hill refers to it, but they were autonomous entities with a variable degrees of relationships among each other, in each given period of time.

It is like me saying that before 1922, Turkey or Anatolia has never been part of Turkey! Of course they have never been part of Turkey, before 1922, simply because Turkey came to existence only after 1922.

In the same way that George Hill claimed for Cyprus not to have been part of “Hellenic Greece,” one can also say about not to have been part “Turkish Turkey!”

In a nutshell, George Hill talked rubbish, but of course this has not stopped Turks from making his words one of the most favourite chewing-gums in their mouths.