Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

@ Lena- I realized that when I wrote:

you and everyone else with dignity

it may mean other than what I intended to write above. I include you inside the domain of the people with dignity. Sorry for the English.

[LENA]

@ Lena-

First and foremost, I acknowledge that the GCs have suffered in the Cyprus problem and I am very sorry for this. PLease remember my stance on this matter as you read any of my posts. I`ll give honest answers if you honestly accept to receive them without prejudice:

Deal…I will have that in mind from now on!

My question was

1. Do you realise that to call the north part of Cyprus as different state has to be true? Is that part recognised from anybody apart from Turkey that occupy that part? It was not when I left few weeks ago...does that changed since then and I didnt hear anything about it?

And you replied…

1) TRNC is recognized as a fully independent country by the Republic of Turkey [b] which is one of the most powerful countries in this part of the world and has a GDP per capita close to 10000$ (above Bulgaria and Romania that just got into the EU). For a country of 300.000 people, that is not bad. Additionally it is recognized as a constituent state by the members of The Organization of the Islamic Conference with its 57 member countries (residing over 92% of world’s oil reserves). But above all you and everyone else with dignity knows that recognition has to do with political interests of countries. [b] Slavery was recognized, promoted and implemented by the whole world until the 20th century. Does that make slavery right? Did it make slavery right? It was o.k. because it was in the interest of the countries that adopted it. I assure you that today many are reconsidering their stance on the Cyprus Problem.

So we are talking about Turkey that occupy the north part of Cyprus, which has so much power to force the Organization of the Islamic Conference (which Turkey is one of the most powerful members) to accept and recognise the north part of the island as a state.
Then you admit that even if Turkey recognises the north part doesn’t make it right!!! Thanks for that.
By the way, does Europe recognise the north part as individual state? USA? Australia? Africa? China? Japan? So what do we have here? The power of money (Turkish money) forced an Islamic organisation which is a member to recognise an illegal move. Murataga…lets repeat the question…and I hope this time you will get my point!!!
Does any country recognise the north part of Cyprus as a different state…APART FROM TURKEY?

Next question…

2) You have to understand the history and circumstances of the Cyprus well. An independent Cyprus has never been the desire of the GC leadership. This is an unfortunate but a well-documented and undisputable fact of the Cyprus issue. They have done everything within their power to hand over the independence of this Island to Greece. TCs have opposed and resisted this and Turkey helped them in their fight. If you want to blame TCs and Turkey for this you are always welcomed to for I know we will proudly accept any credit for stopping the Hellenization and ENOSIS of this island.

Murataga…you told me to understand the history. Ok. Can I ask you if you are stuck on that and you are not willing to move on? The ENOSIS was something that belongs to the past. Nobody wants to unite with Greece. We are an independent state member of EU, with our own government, recognised from the whole world. Why do you think that we want ENOSIS now? That was something that some people wanted in the past.

I disagree with you that our leadership didn’t want unification. I will admit that “I” believe that you are right for the present leadership. I believe that T.Papadopoulos doesn’t want unification…BUT that was not always the issue…I believe that (even if I completely disagree with Klerides) he wanted unification….and we have done steps forward the TC rights with lots of laws that exist and you did steps back from our rights.

I understand why TC didn’t want the ENOSIS…and you admitted that TC fight for their rights…well I agree that they was right to protest but not by killing people as it happened in the past! And why Turkey had to interfere to that. That was a problem among Cypriots. Not Turkish! So why did Turkey invaded? Why they killed innocent women and children, why they raped women? For the TC protection?

3. Are Kikapus fellow TCs free to do anything they want? Can they express freely their self without get any attacks or any threats?

3)No one living in any country in this world is free to do “anything” they want. Our country has mandatory military service just like the GC administered area (by the way, I wonder if Kikpau`s trip to the South would have been as “pleasant” as he described if he was running away from his mandatory service to their government …), Israel, Germany or Switzerland does. If this is what you are implying as a violation of one’s freedoms I rest my case. For a marginal amount people like Kikapu or Bir it may be something that they despise but for the rest of the TCs it is the greatest achievable honor of our life to serve the military of our country. Other than that I suggest that you read the newspaper Afrika published and operating in the TRNC to see the level of tolerance in our country. I do not know about the existence of such a harshly critical publication in your part of Cyprus, perhaps you would like to inform us about one?

No Murataga…I didn’t mean about the military service…which I don’t thing that has to do with humans right … we have that as well as you said…I am not sure if is the same laws about people like Kikapu…but anyway is not want I meant. What I meant is what I heart from TC that they can not express so freely their opinion as you said. I am familiar with Africa and I read some of the articles…That newspaper is against the government as we have newspapers in the south that are against the government and judge the politicians etc. There are newspapers that are in favour of the TC and they support them with articles etc. We do have TC that write articles for those newspapers…I am sure about that and if you want I will do my best to give you names and details if you are interested.

What I mean is the way of life, the way that people can protest etc. I hurt that they are scared to do anything against the government because they army attack those who are against them with one or the other way, they are not as free as you said.

I don’t know if you are familiar with Angastiniotis and his work, but he got warn that if he continue with his new project which is against the Turkish army will have to face some problems!!! So don’t tell me that they are so perfect!

4. Do you believe that we build the "Hellenic Cyprus" as you call it from Greek money? Do you believe that we stay there and wait for others to do the job? We did make what exist today with blood, sweat and tears from our eyes....while we had to rebuild our lives and face every single day the proof of our pain on our mountains?

4)I really don’t care how you operate and build the GC Administered area of Cyprus. The GC administration has received millions of $s of financial aid and recognition for the crimes committed against us. You keep looking at our mountains and you look at them carefully, because there you will see the symbol of our national sovereignty, independence and freedom that we live for carved in stone.

With that I can see your real feelings for the GC…I wonder why you start that post with the “I am sorry for GC pain” statement? You believe that are your mountains and those mountains have nothing to do with us!! You believe that we got paid because we committed crimes against the TC…. Thank God this is just internet!!
Where did we got that $$$ as you said because we have done those crimes? You told me above to go and read some history and comprehend that…do the same please!

Lets conclude this ridicules statement of yours!!!

Turkey recognises the “TRNC” as a legal state…and is the country that illegally occupies that part of Cyprus. Power is what really matters and not human’s right. It suits you to believe that we want ENOSIS at 2007, “TRNC” is the perfect “STATE” with the Turkish army all around…and GC have nothing to do with the north part and we got lots of money from somewhere because we got killed!

Did I miss anything????

[Kikapu]

@ Lena-

First and foremost, I acknowledge that the GCs have suffered in the Cyprus problem and I am very sorry for this. PLease remember my stance on this matter as you read any of my posts. I`ll give honest answers if you honestly accept to receive them without prejudice:

1. Do you realise that to call the north part of Cyprus as different state has to be true? Is that part recognised from anybody apart from Turkey that occupy that part? It was not when I left few weeks ago...does that changed since then and I didnt hear anything about it?

1) TRNC is recognized as a fully independent country by the Republic of Turkey which is one of the most powerful countries in this part of the world and has a GDP per capita close to 10000$ (above Bulgaria and Romania that just got into the EU). For a country of 300.000 people, that is not bad. Additionally it is recognized as a constituent state by the members of The Organization of the Islamic Conference with its 57 member countries (residing over 92% of world’s oil reserves). But above all you and everyone else with dignity knows that recognition has to do with political interests of countries. Slavery was recognized, promoted and implemented by the whole world until the 20th century. Does that make slavery right? Did it make slavery right? It was o.k. because it was in the interest of the countries that adopted it. I assure you that today many are reconsidering their stance on the Cyprus Problem.

2. I agree with you that TC have suffered and attacked and their human rights has been violated...etc. But I have another question from you. All that is it only GCs fault? Be honest with your self. Did Turkey had anything to do with that? Did TMT had anything to do with that?

2) You have to understand the history and circumstances of the Cyprus well. An independent Cyprus has never been the desire of the GC leadership. This is an unfortunate but a well-documented and undisputable fact of the Cyprus issue. They have done everything within their power to hand over the independence of this Island to Greece. TCs have opposed and resisted this and Turkey helped them in their fight. If you want to blame TCs and Turkey for this you are always welcomed to for I know we will proudly accept any credit for stopping the Hellenization and ENOSIS of this island.

3. Are Kikapus fellow TCs free to do anything they want? Can they express freely their self without get any attacks or any threats?

3) No one living in any country in this world is free to do “anything” they want. Our country has mandatory military service just like the GC administered area (by the way, I wonder if Kikpau`s trip to the South would have been as “pleasant” as he described if he was running away from his mandatory service to their government …), Israel, Germany or Switzerland does. If this is what you are implying as a violation of one’s freedoms I rest my case. For a marginal amount people like Kikapu or Bir it may be something that they despise but for the rest of the TCs it is the greatest achievable honor of our life to serve the military of our country. Other than that I suggest that you read the newspaper Afrika published and operating in the TRNC to see the level of tolerance in our country. I do not know about the existence of such a harshly critical publication in your part of Cyprus, perhaps you would like to inform us about one?

4. Do you believe that we build the "Hellenic Cyprus" as you call it from Greek money? Do you believe that we stay there and wait for others to do the job? We did make what exist today with blood, sweat and tears from our eyes....while we had to rebuild our lives and face every single day the proof of our pain on our mountains?

4) I really don’t care how you operate and build the GC Administered area of Cyprus. The GC administration has received millions of $s of financial aid and recognition for the crimes committed against us. You keep looking at our mountains and you look at them carefully, because there you will see the symbol of our national sovereignty, independence and freedom that we live for carved in stone.

Murataga,

Let me be the first to tell you how well you put your words together, to give a real meaning to what is it that you want to say, however, despite of all that, you are putting a "nation" called the "TRNC" at the expense of other rightful owners of this land. In short my friend, you are committing the ultimate sin of "HARAM". How proud of a "Nation" can it be, when it's society becomes corrupt through it's actions, whether you can justify reasons for them or not. America is one of the most violent societies in the world. It is in their heritage from the lawlessness of the Wild West. Are we going to hear in the future, the corrupt society of the TRNC, because of it's heritage of land stealer's.

Or does it not matter at the end, just how societies develop.??

[LENA]

@ Lena- I realized that when I wrote:

you and everyone else with dignity

it may mean other than what I intended to write above. I include you inside the domain of the people with dignity. Sorry for the English.

Thanks Murataga...I didnt see that anywhere sorry ... and you wrote that correct...I didnt get a different meaning anyway...with the above phrase you include me on the "dignity community" ... no worries...but by making compliments I am not going to sell out my country...

[Kifeas]

@ Lena-

First and foremost, I acknowledge that the GCs have suffered in the Cyprus problem and I am very sorry for this. PLease remember my stance on this matter as you read any of my posts. I`ll give honest answers if you honestly accept to receive them without prejudice:

1. Do you realise that to call the north part of Cyprus as different state has to be true? Is that part recognised from anybody apart from Turkey that occupy that part? It was not when I left few weeks ago...does that changed since then and I didnt hear anything about it?

1) TRNC is recognized as a fully independent country by the Republic of Turkey which is one of the most powerful countries in this part of the world and has a GDP per capita close to 10000$ (above Bulgaria and Romania that just got into the EU). For a country of 300.000 people, that is not bad. Additionally it is recognized as a constituent state by the members of The Organization of the Islamic Conference with its 57 member countries (residing over 92% of world’s oil reserves). But above all you and everyone else with dignity knows that recognition has to do with political interests of countries. Slavery was recognized, promoted and implemented by the whole world until the 20th century. Does that make slavery right? Did it make slavery right? It was o.k. because it was in the interest of the countries that adopted it. I assure you that today many are reconsidering their stance on the Cyprus Problem.

2. I agree with you that TC have suffered and attacked and their human rights has been violated...etc. But I have another question from you. All that is it only GCs fault? Be honest with your self. Did Turkey had anything to do with that? Did TMT had anything to do with that?

2) You have to understand the history and circumstances of the Cyprus well. An independent Cyprus has never been the desire of the GC leadership. This is an unfortunate but a well-documented and undisputable fact of the Cyprus issue. They have done everything within their power to hand over the independence of this Island to Greece. TCs have opposed and resisted this and Turkey helped them in their fight. If you want to blame TCs and Turkey for this you are always welcomed to for I know we will proudly accept any credit for stopping the Hellenization and ENOSIS of this island.

3. Are Kikapus fellow TCs free to do anything they want? Can they express freely their self without get any attacks or any threats?

3) No one living in any country in this world is free to do “anything” they want. Our country has mandatory military service just like the GC administered area (by the way, I wonder if Kikpau`s trip to the South would have been as “pleasant” as he described if he was running away from his mandatory service to their government …), Israel, Germany or Switzerland does. If this is what you are implying as a violation of one’s freedoms I rest my case. For a marginal amount people like Kikapu or Bir it may be something that they despise but for the rest of the TCs it is the greatest achievable honor of our life to serve the military of our country. Other than that I suggest that you read the newspaper Afrika published and operating in the TRNC to see the level of tolerance in our country. I do not know about the existence of such a harshly critical publication in your part of Cyprus, perhaps you would like to inform us about one?

4. Do you believe that we build the "Hellenic Cyprus" as you call it from Greek money? Do you believe that we stay there and wait for others to do the job? We did make what exist today with blood, sweat and tears from our eyes....while we had to rebuild our lives and face every single day the proof of our pain on our mountains?

4) I really don’t care how you operate and build the GC Administered area of Cyprus. The GC administration has received millions of $s of financial aid and recognition for the crimes committed against us. You keep looking at our mountains and you look at them carefully, because there you will see the symbol of our national sovereignty, independence and freedom that we live for carved in stone.

Good try Murataga! Good try indeed, but your little story sounds too good to be true! Good try, but not sufficient to hide and /or restore your “overwhelmed” and “punctured” morale!

You sound more like the “town crier” outside a bazaar, trying to sell carpets to passers by! Good try to sell us "seaweeds for silky ribbons!"

[Murataga]

@Lena-

Turkey recognises the “TRNC” as a legal state…and is the country that illegally occupies that part of Cyprus. Power is what really matters and not human’s right. It suits you to believe that we want ENOSIS at 2007, “TRNC” is the perfect “STATE” with the Turkish army all around…and GC have nothing to do with the north part and we got lots of money from somewhere because we got killed!

I`ll go over your summary:

Turkey recognises the “TRNC” as a legal state

Yes and 57 other countries as a constitutent state of Cyprus.

and is the country that illegally occupies that part of Cyprus

No. Turkey has never claimed that Cyprus is her`s. They make up for the military strength that we can`t. They are here to protect us from the 40000 GC National Guard and the GC leadership that envisages a Hellenic Cyprus.

Power is what really matters and not human’s right.

To the contrary. Unfortunately the GC administration did not and does not respect this.

It suits you to believe that we want ENOSIS at 2007

GC leadership wanted ENOSIS back than. They were prooved that it would not happen. Today they want a Hellenic Cyprus. They are being prroven and will be prooven that they it will not happen.

“TRNC” is the perfect “STATE” with the Turkish army all around

I never said that the TRNC is the perfect state. It is the sovereign, independent and free country of proud TCs.

GC have nothing to do with the north part

Not anymore. This did not happen over a night. Read the whole Cyprus problem.

we got lots of money from somewhere because we got killed!

The GC administration received financial aid and recognition despite their crimes.

[Murataga]

@Lena-

but by making compliments I am not going to sell out my country...

And I am not going to sell out mine`s with compliments or attacks.

[Kifeas]

Good effort Murataga, but no need to stretch yourself so much! You know..., in the end you may “crack” instead!

[zan]

@ Lena-

First and foremost, I acknowledge that the GCs have suffered in the Cyprus problem and I am very sorry for this. PLease remember my stance on this matter as you read any of my posts. I`ll give honest answers if you honestly accept to receive them without prejudice:

1. Do you realise that to call the north part of Cyprus as different state has to be true? Is that part recognised from anybody apart from Turkey that occupy that part? It was not when I left few weeks ago...does that changed since then and I didnt hear anything about it?

1) TRNC is recognized as a fully independent country by the Republic of Turkey which is one of the most powerful countries in this part of the world and has a GDP per capita close to 10000$ (above Bulgaria and Romania that just got into the EU). For a country of 300.000 people, that is not bad. Additionally it is recognized as a constituent state by the members of The Organization of the Islamic Conference with its 57 member countries (residing over 92% of world’s oil reserves). But above all you and everyone else with dignity knows that recognition has to do with political interests of countries. Slavery was recognized, promoted and implemented by the whole world until the 20th century. Does that make slavery right? Did it make slavery right? It was o.k. because it was in the interest of the countries that adopted it. I assure you that today many are reconsidering their stance on the Cyprus Problem.

2. I agree with you that TC have suffered and attacked and their human rights has been violated...etc. But I have another question from you. All that is it only GCs fault? Be honest with your self. Did Turkey had anything to do with that? Did TMT had anything to do with that?

2) You have to understand the history and circumstances of the Cyprus well. An independent Cyprus has never been the desire of the GC leadership. This is an unfortunate but a well-documented and undisputable fact of the Cyprus issue. They have done everything within their power to hand over the independence of this Island to Greece. TCs have opposed and resisted this and Turkey helped them in their fight. If you want to blame TCs and Turkey for this you are always welcomed to for I know we will proudly accept any credit for stopping the Hellenization and ENOSIS of this island.

3. Are Kikapus fellow TCs free to do anything they want? Can they express freely their self without get any attacks or any threats?

3) No one living in any country in this world is free to do “anything” they want. Our country has mandatory military service just like the GC administered area (by the way, I wonder if Kikpau`s trip to the South would have been as “pleasant” as he described if he was running away from his mandatory service to their government …), Israel, Germany or Switzerland does. If this is what you are implying as a violation of one’s freedoms I rest my case. For a marginal amount people like Kikapu or Bir it may be something that they despise but for the rest of the TCs it is the greatest achievable honor of our life to serve the military of our country. Other than that I suggest that you read the newspaper Afrika published and operating in the TRNC to see the level of tolerance in our country. I do not know about the existence of such a harshly critical publication in your part of Cyprus, perhaps you would like to inform us about one?

4. Do you believe that we build the "Hellenic Cyprus" as you call it from Greek money? Do you believe that we stay there and wait for others to do the job? We did make what exist today with blood, sweat and tears from our eyes....while we had to rebuild our lives and face every single day the proof of our pain on our mountains?

4) I really don’t care how you operate and build the GC Administered area of Cyprus. The GC administration has received millions of $s of financial aid and recognition for the crimes committed against us. You keep looking at our mountains and you look at them carefully, because there you will see the symbol of our national sovereignty, independence and freedom that we live for carved in stone.

Murataga,

Let me be the first to tell you how well you put your words together, to give a real meaning to what is it that you want to say, however, despite of all that, you are putting a "nation" called the "TRNC" at the expense of other rightful owners of this land. In short my friend, you are committing the ultimate sin of "HARAM". How proud of a "Nation" can it be, when it's society becomes corrupt through it's actions, whether you can justify reasons for them or not. America is one of the most violent societies in the world. It is in their heritage from the lawlessness of the Wild West. Are we going to hear in the future, the corrupt society of the TRNC, because of it's heritage of land stealer's.

Or does it not matter at the end, just how societies develop.??

Hey look every one....Kikapyro has learned a new Turkish word and is using it till it wears out. Shame you do not recognise the wrongs that were done to us and just like your brain washed friends you only see their side of the story.

[Natty]

I'm impressed Kikapu, 61 pages...