Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Just before we all sign off from this thread,I want to remind everyone that VPs did not answer Kikapu's vital question about what difference it would've made had he visited the Trnc as well...

You know, Viewpoint et al,I suspect kikapu's report would've been even less acceptable to you had he visited the North...There he would've found he is not in Cyprus at all but in a foreign country,largely populated by people from Adana,Hatay and,and other parts of Anatolia. He would've learned that just recently the Turkish General in charge of the Cyprus Peace Forces ( ) refused to shake the hand of the democratically elected leader of the TCs...He would've been stunned to find out that the general demanded that Soyer proved his Turkishness by singing the Turkish national anthem at his political party meeetings,and fly the Turkish flag and decorate the room with Ataturk's posters...

Kikapu would've learnt that no soldier of TC origin can ever became the commander of the armed forces in the pariah state of the TRNC...That no person of TC origin cound become president of the Central Bank (or the Reserve Bank as it is known in Oz) of the above said pariah state...He might have become gobsmacked to learn that according to Article 10 of the Constitution( ) of the said state Military's powers override those of the civil politicians and those of the Parliament,essentially making the so called Trnc a police state. Talking about Police,Kikapu might have learned that the Trnc police comes under the Chief of Staff of Turkey's armed forces,and not under the civilian PM...

Had he crossed over Kikapu might've learned that there are regular electricity cuts,and water only flows on certain days of the week. He might've found out that the average TC is petrified of the crime rates,and drug barrons and the brothel and casino operators who have more power than the members of parliament...And he might've found out that it was impossible to drive on the roads,for there are more cars and more bad drivers (often driving left-handed cars) on the roads...

Then of course there would be the visit to Asal Sube (the office which deals with military service) which would've made him sorry he had ever set foot in the North (as I personally felt in 1999,when it took me 3 days out of the 7 days I was in the North,to get the exit permit,and I had people high in the army helping me )...

I wonder what Kikapu's report would be like then...so my humble advice to you Viewpoint et al,is to count your blessings Kikapu never made it to the North,and remember the saying "Be careful what you wish for...for it might come true" One day when you are least expecting it!!!

But what do I know? I live 20,000 kms away in sunny Australia...
Right,VP???

Why would a GC want to go North, the fact that he had to show papers put the wind up Kikapolous, he must have something sinister to hide. Any real TC would do anything to come to the TRNC and see first hand exactly how TCs live, whay happened to them after 1974 and against all odds how they survived to create a state of TCs. His ficticious belief that there are soldiers patrolling every street corner and man eating Turks would have been smashed to rubble. All he has now are individuals like you who poison him against the North and the plight of the TCs in wanting a peaceful exsistemce where they have a say in their own future. He may have been impressed like many GCs who lead to believe that we running around with no shoes and starving due to GC embargoes. His whole outlook towards TCs may have chnaged if he sat and listened to their fears and dreams of the type of Cyprus they want, where they are not second class citizens and where GCs do not dominate their daily lives of influence their future. A visit would have chnaged many things for Kikapolous good or bad as neither side is perfect, why dont you lecture Kiapolous on the money lanudering issue you have? the rapes that go on there, the drunken British soliders, the drugs problem and drop in tourism and what it means to your economy. No country is perfect so dont throw bricks when you live in a glass house and if you say well we are better off than the north then there are many countires better off than the south, and with the advantages you have we would be more than likely also ahead of south as the north is the more beautiful and potentailly productive part of the island and the GCs know this, thats why they cry so much, not because they love us and want to live with their "Cypriot" brothers, thats a facade which is just to little to late.

[Viewpoint]

Just before we all sign off from this thread,I want to remind everyone that VPs did not answer Kikapu's vital question about what difference it would've made had he visited the Trnc as well...

You know, Viewpoint et al,I suspect kikapu's report would've been even less acceptable to you had he visited the North...There he would've found he is not in Cyprus at all but in a foreign country,largely populated by people from Adana,Hatay and,and other parts of Anatolia. He would've learned that just recently the Turkish General in charge of the Cyprus Peace Forces ( ) refused to shake the hand of the democratically elected leader of the TCs...He would've been stunned to find out that the general demanded that Soyer proved his Turkishness by singing the Turkish national anthem at his political party meeetings,and fly the Turkish flag and decorate the room with Ataturk's posters...

Kikapu would've learnt that no soldier of TC origin can ever became the commander of the armed forces in the pariah state of the TRNC...That no person of TC origin cound become president of the Central Bank (or the Reserve Bank as it is known in Oz) of the above said pariah state...He might have become gobsmacked to learn that according to Article 10 of the Constitution( ) of the said state Military's powers override those of the civil politicians and those of the Parliament,essentially making the so called Trnc a police state. Talking about Police,Kikapu might have learned that the Trnc police comes under the Chief of Staff of Turkey's armed forces,and not under the civilian PM...

Had he crossed over Kikapu might've learned that there are regular electricity cuts,and water only flows on certain days of the week. He might've found out that the average TC is petrified of the crime rates,and drug barrons and the brothel and casino operators who have more power than the members of parliament...And he might've found out that it was impossible to drive on the roads,for there are more cars and more bad drivers (often driving left-handed cars) on the roads...

Then of course there would be the visit to Asal Sube (the office which deals with military service) which would've made him sorry he had ever set foot in the North (as I personally felt in 1999,when it took me 3 days out of the 7 days I was in the North,to get the exit permit,and I had people high in the army helping me )...

I wonder what Kikapu's report would be like then...so my humble advice to you Viewpoint et al,is to count your blessings Kikapu never made it to the North,and remember the saying "Be careful what you wish for...for it might come true" One day when you are least expecting it!!!

But what do I know? I live 20,000 kms away in sunny Australia...
Right,VP???

Bir,

Thanks for telling me, what's on the "other side", because had I gone to the "TRNC", I would not have been able to write "Kikapu's time in Cyprus" any time soon. I can tell you for sure, I would still be there, and would have been there, for a long, long time, and not as a tourist either. At this point in time, I do not wish to add any more to this. I may write another page on the reasons ( military service was one) later, as to why I did not go to the "TRNC" or ever will in the future, until conditions change on the ground.

I know this will disappoint VP very much.

We mustn't do anything to disappoint VP et al...
He/she is holding up the trnc propaganda unit all by him/her self...with a little help from his/her friends...

Bir 2 can play at your silly he or she game?? is that the route you wish to take I will also refer to you in the same fashion, that OK?

[BirKibrisli]

Bir wrote-

...according to Article 10 of the Constitution( ) of the said state Military's powers override those of the civil politicians and those of the Parliament,essentially making the so called Trnc a police state.

The following is the link to the Constitution of the TRNC from the official website of the parliament, which is what I believe what you had been referring to in you statement. Could you kindly translate to English and write here what Article 10 reads?

http://www.cm.gov.nc.tr/cm/anayasa/index.htm

Don't play the innocent,Murataga...You know what I am talking about.
Find me the relevant article and I will gladly translate it...

[zan]

I can only hope that you have taken the last bit of advice you gave to Fanos your self.


I said I would let this thread die because people were asking for it to die. I could see that they were getting fed up with the bickering. The fact is that you will not let it die a peaceful death and are still challenging my questions without ever actually answering them. I have said before that I am glad you had a good time but I will also have to say that it was not my idea of a holiday. When I go on holiday it is to unwind and sit in the sun or sight seeing. I do not go on a political quest just so I can come back and say I told you so when the people you are saying that to, told you so already. You never did say whether you asked about the growing crime rate or TPaps court case or the surge in drug use or the illegal Hotels and buildings going up everywhere or whether they were tooling up for a war if and when the Turkish army move out or what would have happened if you were caught taking pictures when you were not supposed to and.................

Fanos works / worked for a media company, that some believe is only a propaganda machine. Which propaganda machine are you suggesting, that I work for Zan.??

Yes, when we saw signs where it said, photos not allowed, we did not take any. I'm sure I would have had to face some punishment, as in any country. What is the punishment anyway?. You brought it up, so I assume you know the answer.

3 months ago, I seriously thought about contacting Talat and PappaD, to meet with them. As time went by, and the more mixed signals I was getting regarding the Military Service issues in the "TRNC", I gave up on the idea. I believe, I could have still met with PappaD if I tried, but without having the chance to see Talat, it would have been wrong for me to try and meet with PappaD. I knew for sure, I would have been labelled a traitor. Not that I'm being labelled anything less now, thanks to the courtesy of the P & P Department. Just different words, that's all.

I only had 2 weeks there Zan. Perhaps if I had one more week, I would have been able to ask all the burning questions, that you have raised, and also bring the oil to the surface, from the bottom of the sea.

Asking a little too much, are you not.??

Of course I am asking too much. I just gave an extra dimension to your two-dimensional story though and that can only help can it not? I am also sure that both those leaders would have taken time off to welcome you into their countries.
I am a little confused (or is it you that is confused) because I thought that you said you HAD taken pictures of a school that you shouldn't have but anyway all I know as to the punishment is that in Greece there was a group of British Plane spotters that were arrested and charged with spying so be careful next time.

I do hope however, that when and if you do ever visit the TRNC/KKTC then you will find the time to ask the same questions about the GCs as you did in the south. Maybe you can overlook the wrongs of the TRNC/KKTC and shed a tear for us.

[Viewpoint]

VP said

Easy to say when you are in the driving seat.

Kikapolous only cares for GCs full stop. He could not even visit the TRNC, that shows how one sided and biased he is, sucking up to you people, anyway lets cut the crap about Kikapolous I dont really care if he never visits the island ever again let alone the TRNC, judging from the progress made since 1983 the TRNC will be around for a good many years.

You under estimate TCs they are not stupid and they do not need me to tell them ehat to do your, the GC leadership is doing a great job in ensuring that the many thousands of viewpoints continue to exsist and increase.

VP what is eating away at you is the fact that a Turkish Cypriot is man enough to accept other human beings who are not of turkish background more so and how dare he, have a positive experience in the RoC and furthermore he wrote about.

I suggest you thank him for one as he is actually saying Cyprus is one Island for one people and that consists of those speaking Greek/ Tukish/ Armenian/ Hebrew to mention a few. Get it through your head VP Cyprus is one country for all its people and all its people own property everywhere, and deserve the human right to own it use it access it sell it and dispose of it at their own accord.

You are in the driving seat of your own destiny and you choose one of separation and hate and racism. You choose to occupy land that does not belong to you and you choose to live through an economic embargo. Stop trying to show trnc residents as the victims they choose to live there in an illegal regime, they can choose tomorrow to move south and experience a european lifestyle. You may wish to blame the RoC for many things just remember that the whole world is saying no to the illegal regime you cal trnc.

What excactly is our leadership doing VP? offering health, education, equal rights, and european passports to those turkish speaking cypriots who wish to access them? Any more complaints?

Humanist why are you not taking in what I have been posting, it is not that difficult. I am glad Kikapolous had a great time in the south millions of tourists do every year, why do you feel that I am dissapointed? The GC people on a 121 basis are fine just like English and Spanish people.

Cyprus has not been a whole country since 1974, sorry to break this to you but we are divided into 2 clear parts. One recognized one not, this doesnt change the fact that we have 2 of everything...this will remain so until a time or if we decide to unite. The referendum is a clear sign that there are 2 sides one GC one TC to get the 2 sides to come together both have to agree. In order to have 1 whole Cyprus both parties have to agree, am I wrong? you cant do it without us and we cant do it without you, comprendi? So why do you keep kidding yourselves that there is one Cyprus and you represent us?

I am living in my country, circumstancies have brought me to this point and in order to change the current status quo the conditions put before have to be right and I must feel comfortable otherwise is no go and the TRNC will remain a thorn in your side. The world maynot recognize the TRNC but I do not see anyone rushing to your aide to remove the TRNC and give you back the north. Have you ever asked yourself why?

Your leadership is trying to back up its claim that is represents the TCs, they cannot stop the benefits for TCs as it is them that claim to represent all Cypriots and damage their internatioanl crediblity if they tired to discriminate between TCs and GCs.

[Murataga]

Murataga wrote:

Bir wrote-

Quote:
...according to Article 10 of the Constitution( ) of the said state Military's powers override those of the civil politicians and those of the Parliament,essentially making the so called Trnc a police state.

The following is the link to the Constitution of the TRNC from the official website of the parliament, which is what I believe what you had been referring to in you statement. Could you kindly translate to English and write here what Article 10 reads?
http://www.cm.gov.nc.tr/cm/anayasa/index.htm

Don't play the innocent,Murataga...You know what I am talking about.
Find me the relevant article and I will gladly translate it...

I am not playing anything. It is fair and square. You said that according to Article 10 Military`s power overrides the civilian power. I am pointing to you Article 10 of the constitution. Better yet, I am giving you the link to the whole constitution. Please translate to us what what Article 10 reads. If you do not want to for the obvious reason, than please show us where it says "Military`s power overrides the power of the civilian power".

http://www.cm.gov.nc.tr/cm/anayasa/index.htm

It is unacceptable to say the least for you to come to TRNC, and than take a piss on it on public forums like this based on your negative attitude. Anyone can reflect the best country in this world, let alone TRNC, like a shithole in hell with the right motive and you know it. You are not playing fair. I do not and never have claim/claimed that it is a perfect state. It has its faults, it has its mistakes it has its problems. But when you come here and reflect whatever is wrong with TRNC as the only things that exists there, you are crossing the line. I recall you saying that you were sick and tired of getting abused by TCs and mentioned how you appreciated my moderate tone of discussion with you. If you do not want to be abused than you should extend the same courtesy to the other side, just a simple principle of human correspondance. Whether you like it or not, whether you recognize it or not, whether you believe it or not, TRNC is where 300.000 people call home and their state.

[Murataga]

last post was to Bir

[Kikapu]

Of course I am asking too much. I just gave an extra dimension to your two-dimensional story though and that can only help can it not? I am also sure that both those leaders would have taken time off to welcome you into their countries.
I am a little confused (or is it you that is confused) because I thought that you said you HAD taken pictures of a school that you shouldn't have but anyway all I know as to the punishment is that in Greece there was a group of British Plane spotters that were arrested and charged with spying so be careful next time.

I do hope however, that when and if you do ever visit the TRNC/KKTC then you will find the time to ask the same questions about the GCs as you did in the south. Maybe you can overlook the wrongs of the TRNC/KKTC and shed a tear for us.

Don't count on me coming to the "TRNC" any time soon. I'll only come, when the military service requirements are lifted, and the "TRNC" is recognised, so that it has official diplomatic agreements with the USA and the UK. I can not trust the "TRNC" without my other countries helping me, if needed, to put my welfare in the hands of others, where I will be at their mercy. It is hardly a comforting thought, when any one of you can make my life a living misery, with your friends at the ASAL SUBE. I could have been arranged to do 2 years military, whether it is in the rules or not. I could have been held and there would have been nothing the USA or UK could do about it. Besides, I saw most of the North, from the South, all the way from Karpasia to Morfou Bay. The only part I was not able to see, was the other side of Mount Graffiti / Graffiti Mountain. As far as I'm concerned, I saw 95% of my country. It is not so important to step on every inch. I have not stepped on every inch of the USA either, and I lived there for 25 years.

You and VP would have been in your rights if I wrote something negative about the "TRNC" while I wrote positive about the RoC. If I said TC's are living in poverty as suppose to the GC's, then you can accuse me of not telling the truth, and that I was being biased towards the GC's. Do you see the comparison. I never suggested all the rubbish VP says, that what we think of the "TRNC". It is you guys, who are trying very hard to put words into my mouth, and not the other way around.

Yes, I did take pictures of the school, where I was held as a prisoner for a week, back in 1963, along with 700 others TC's, held by the GC's. There were no " do not take picture signs" so I took several. It was the principle who told me after the fact, that I could not take any pictures of the school, which I told her, that I already have.

[zan]

Of course I am asking too much. I just gave an extra dimension to your two-dimensional story though and that can only help can it not? I am also sure that both those leaders would have taken time off to welcome you into their countries.
I am a little confused (or is it you that is confused) because I thought that you said you HAD taken pictures of a school that you shouldn't have but anyway all I know as to the punishment is that in Greece there was a group of British Plane spotters that were arrested and charged with spying so be careful next time.

I do hope however, that when and if you do ever visit the TRNC/KKTC then you will find the time to ask the same questions about the GCs as you did in the south. Maybe you can overlook the wrongs of the TRNC/KKTC and shed a tear for us.

Don't count on me coming to the "TRNC" any time soon. I'll only come, when the military service requirements are lifted, and the "TRNC" is recognised, so that it has official diplomatic agreements with the USA and the UK. I can not trust the "TRNC" without my other countries helping me, if needed, to put my welfare in the hands of others, where I will be at their mercy. It is hardly a comforting thought, when any one of you can make my life a living misery, with your friends at the ASAL SUBE. I could have been arranged to do 2 years military, whether it is in the rules or not. I could have been held and there would have been nothing the USA or UK could do about it. Besides, I saw most of the North, from the South, all the way from Karpasia to Morfou Bay. The only part I was not able to see, was the other side of Mount Graffiti / Graffiti Mountain. As far as I'm concerned, I saw 95% of my country. It is not so important to step on every inch. I have not stepped on every inch of the USA either, and I lived there for 25 years.

You and VP would have been in your rights if I wrote something negative about the "TRNC" while I wrote positive about the RoC. If I said TC's are living in poverty as suppose to the GC's, then you can accuse me of not telling the truth, and that I was being biased towards the GC's. Do you see the comparison. I never suggested all the rubbish VP says, that what we think of the "TRNC". It is you guys, who are trying very hard to put words into my mouth, and not the other way around.

Yes, I did take pictures of the school, where I was held as a prisoner for a week, back in 1963, along with 700 others TC's, held by the GC's. There were no " do not take picture signs" so I took several. It was the principle who told me after the fact, that I could not take any pictures of the school, which I told her, that I already have.

You are such a chicken. No sense of adventure. You could have gone from the wild west to the wild north (of Cyprus) and taken the donkey by the horns. I went, I saw, I conquered. Took me a day to sort out my papers but it all went well in the end. You would have had more joy than you did with your birth certificate in he south which you did not even get.


You wrote nearly a whole chapter of a real book. I think me and VP did not have to put any words in your mouth. It is all there for those that are not blind to see. As I said, when you look at it again in a few months you will see what all the fuss is about.

[Pyrpolizer]

Didn't anybody tell you, that if you wanted anything done at the Land Registry Department that would usually take 3 days, to come and see me, to get it done in 2 hours

On the military issue. I kept telling VP, but he does not want to believe my dilemma. There were one or two other issues I had concerns about going to the "TRNC", but unless the military service question was put to rest, other issues would have only made it worse for me.

A year ago, I contacted a politician in the "TRNC" about the same military service question. I have a letter in front of me from this politician, telling me to cancel my travel plans to the "TRNC", until the military service question was settled, before coming. This was last year, 2006, so we went to Spain instead. As far as I'm concerned, those same questions, have not been answered fully, so you are right, I was not going to walk into a "Hornets Nest".

The military issue is perfectly understandable by me my friend. Well, I thought that was the only reason. You also mentioned something regarding possible losing your US citizenship, is that the other reasons you talk about? If not, and if they are not much personal please share them with us if you want.

Most expensive Hotels were in Nicosia and Agia Napa. But to our surprise, least expensive food was in Agia Napa by almost 25%, for the same food, than elsewhere. All other places, were more or less the same. Meat and Fish Mezes were £10 - 12 everywhere. That was the only constant price we had found.

Can someone explain to me, why were the hotel prices high, but yet, food prices were lower in Agia Napa. ?

Nicosia hotels host mostly bussiness people. We have the Hilton here, the Holiday Inn, etc these are international hotels with very high prices. And of course they are 5 star. I am afraid what you said about Ayia Napa is not true, prices of hotels actually depend on how many stars the hotel has how new or old it is, how close to the sea etc. They do not depend on district. It just happened that you paid more. The most expensive hotel is Anasa at Paphos in the road towards the baths of Aphrodite. Single room high season time CYP 250/ night. Its near Miltiades and Birkibrislis villages, so I guess that’s where those 2 compatriots will chose to stay when they come
Just for comparison the Mediteranean in Limassol (ex Sheraton) that has its own marina charges about CYP 100/night

The point is we have the Cyprus tourist organisation (CTO) that not only licences every tourist bussiness but it checks/approves/rejects everything including their prices. In fact the prices of hotels are published in CTO’s booklet titled guide to hotels and both high season and low season prices are known to everybody. The same happens to restaurants - they are also controlled by CTO. I believe you just had lunch at a slightly cheaper restaurant in Ayia napa compared with other places. See it’s not only the food you eat, it’s also the environment, the service etc. A restaurant with live music is always more expensive, one in a garden even more… Buffet type restaurants are generally cheaper…