Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

VP I am not being silly at all. Of-course the greek speaking cypriots will do everything in their control to prevent the trnc from progress. You have taken their land wthout permission and to this end they will try to do everything possible as so justice is fair for all involved.

I support that action in its entirity.

Every action has a consequence, if I steal your car I go to gaol, if I steal your video I go to gaol. The price trnc has to pay is the international embargo VP. Therefore, we need to look at a viable solution for all involved.

What you seem to conveniently forget is that car also partially belongs to me, which part is whos is the problem but saying I have no right over that same car is wrong, I to have a right to the front end, side or roof, this is what you have to grasp. In order to survive we preferred to live in one part of that car protected and away from people who did not take us into account and wanted to brush us to one side. Even today the same Gc perspective continues, we are hindered by GCs who do not want to grant us the right to use a part of our own country without sucumbing to their rule.

As you can appreciate the TC will not allow the GCs to play on an open field as they try to block us at every turn we will not give up the right to live just like any other human being in the world and gradually the world will see that maintaining the current isoaltion of the TCs ia inhumane and serves no purpose but to alienate them.

You have the right to come claim your property in the north today? do I have the right to my own postal address even in 2007?

I am all for looking at viable solutions but after 47 years of finding jack shit dont you think its time to put up your hands and say that the only viable solution is an agree division be this 18/82 25/75 as with the mentality of both sides anything else will be doomed to failure.

[Viewpoint]

I personally have no problem with the 18% but have aired my views with this solution many times you have obviously not read them or you have but like so many other people you are so preconditioned that they do not registered in your brain.

I also asked for an example where the land distribution is based on the population ratios so that I may look into that example and see the way it is done. No one could provide anything but excuses.

?

You do not need to make things too complicated VP. Just take the 18%, which is a lot of land by the way. When I travelled in the RoC, which has 3 times as many people as in the North, and land size is less than twice as much, than it is in the North, I was surprised as the the amount of land, that was sitting empty. The whole place seems to be under populated, with the mountains and all, so the same has to be said to the North. At the moment, I would guess, you have way too much empty land.

Why do you need another example to show why the land needs to be divided on 82%-18% ratios, and not keep it the way it is now. You are asking the RoC to be "fair"with the TC's and stop the embargoes and isolation, so why can't you be "fair", and accept the 18%. If I was as determined as you are, to have my own State, I would do it. I know a lot of people, like Dektash and his land grabbing friends will more than have to return what does not belong to them, but you get to have your own Nation, and in peace too, with the GC's blessing, I'm sure. I think that would be a win win situation. You probably don't even need to have a real border, just a imaginary one, if both sides cooperate to have strict control of immigration to the outside world, because we are a small island.

So you to cannot supply an example where the land distribution of a country is established according to the population ratios that must tell you something, but of course GCs and their devout followers do not want to address this question as it doesnt work in their favor, but hey Im ok with 18%.

[Kikapu]

I personally have no problem with the 18% but have aired my views with this solution many times you have obviously not read them or you have but like so many other people you are so preconditioned that they do not registered in your brain.

I also asked for an example where the land distribution is based on the population ratios so that I may look into that example and see the way it is done. No one could provide anything but excuses.

?

You do not need to make things too complicated VP. Just take the 18%, which is a lot of land by the way. When I travelled in the RoC, which has 3 times as many people as in the North, and land size is less than twice as much, than it is in the North, I was surprised as the the amount of land, that was sitting empty. The whole place seems to be under populated, with the mountains and all, so the same has to be said to the North. At the moment, I would guess, you have way too much empty land.

Why do you need another example to show why the land needs to be divided on 82%-18% ratios, and not keep it the way it is now. You are asking the RoC to be "fair"with the TC's and stop the embargoes and isolation, so why can't you be "fair", and accept the 18%. If I was as determined as you are, to have my own State, I would do it. I know a lot of people, like Dektash and his land grabbing friends will more than have to return what does not belong to them, but you get to have your own Nation, and in peace too, with the GC's blessing, I'm sure. I think that would be a win win situation. You probably don't even need to have a real border, just a imaginary one, if both sides cooperate to have strict control of immigration to the outside world, because we are a small island.

So you to cannot supply an example where the land distribution of a country is established according to the population ratios that must tell you something, but of course GCs and their devout followers do not want to address this question as it doesnt work in their favor, but hey Im ok with 18%.

Like I said, who needs an example. Can you tell me, that there is another place in the world, that has our unique problems. Take the 18%, based on the numbers at the time of the 1960 Constitution and call yourself what ever state you want. You can even keep the "graffiti" on the mountain, if it falls within your 18%. That's sounds fair to me, or have 2 states 1 country where you will have 100% of the island, but the "graffiti" comes down. If not, Karma will arrange a land slide.

You seem to agree on the 18%, so I don't want to hear any more bitching or complaining from you, instead convince the rest of the TC's to adopt this idea, and get ready to return the other 19% of the Northern part of Cyprus, in equal proportions of coastal and inland to the RoC, so that everyone can live in peace.

Now, was that, that difficult to solve.??

[BOF]

Firstly thank you Kikapu for sharing your experiences with us on the forum. I for one ( as a neutral ) found it a very interesting and informative read and im sure it was quite an emotional experience.
Incidentally my father in law, a Lithuanian, (now passed on) came to this country at the end of WW2 as a displaced person and never saw his country or relatives until the russians left in 1995, and i know what a momentous and emotional journey was his return, his first wife having died in the war.
I cannot believe the torrent of abuse and nastiness eminating from some of the so called "TC"s on this forum towards you.
I know some of them are partitionists but i really think that they are too busy with their hatred towards "free" Cyprus to realise what is happening in their own back yard.
Turkey will never give up the part of Cyprus it occupied (yes thats the right word) and continues to now. It ( with T.C. blessing?) allows thousands of TURKISH people to settle in the occupied territory and occupy and build on land that is owned by dispossesed people (is this beginning to sound vaguely familiar) The T.C,s remaining are slowly being overwhelmed and overrun by settlers and eventually will have no voice or representation at all as TURKEY imposes its will on ITS colonised outpost and declares occupied Cyprus as THEIRS.
There is turmoil in big brother Turkey right now....what happens IF it becomes a less moderate Islamic state? How will the T.C. brothers feel under Sharia law? My personal opinion is that T.C.s may want to keep an eye on their own backyard instead of hurling abuse at one T.C who went on a voyage of discovery to see the "enemy" for himself......

[sweetie pie]

He did not visit the occupied part of Cyprus because the British and the American foreign offices advised him that as a British national as well as an American national he could not rely on their respective embassies , which do not exist in the occupied part , to offer him sanctuary should the need arose. As far as your vitriolic comments "and never think about TCs as being his own people."" Let me refresh your memory that his OWN people are the Cypriot people just as they are my people , T/C and G/Cs alike. You consider your self , as you have on many occasions stated , a Turk , that sees Cyprus as another foreign country . Well mate you are wrong. Kikapu has got more Cypriotness in his little finger than you have in your entire body.

.

My good friend Miltiades is absolutely correct, in what he says. If the Partitionist and the Propagandist had an once of integrity, they would not have challenged him, but since they have, I will have to respond.

Since most of you have British Passports, look at page 3, article 6 on Dual Nationalities. " British National who are also Nationals of another country cannot be protected by Her Majesty's Representatives against the authorities of that country. If, under the laws of that country, they are liable for any obligation ( such as Military Service), the fact that they are British nationals, does not exempt them from it".

For American Citizens, it's even worse.
Pages 4 & 5,

Article 8. Loss of U:S Citizenship: "Under certain circumstances, you may lose your US citizenship by (3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state".

Dual Citizens.
Article 9. Very much same as the British Passport, with warning about being "conscription for military service for it's citizens, while in that countries jurisdiction".

We all know that the "TRNC" is not a country, but I did not want to deal with it.

You are still ignoring the fact that you may visit the TRNC for upto 90days a year without having to do miltary service. In time due to your age you will no longer have to do any miltary service and allowing for the fact you will never come to live in the TRNC whats your problem? You may visit without any problems but you know what its better that you never see the north as you will find and promote all its faults to gain points from your GC bum chums.

Why is then that my nephew ( turkish cypriot) was held in northern cyprus and refused permission to fly home to the UK because they said he had to do his national service? He missed his plane and had to provide faxed information to inform them he was still at school in the UK (he had just had his 18th birthday while over in Cyprus? It took over a week to sort that out and his passport was withheld so that he could not leave? This was last year by the way

Obviously he tried to flaunt the laws of the TRNC and was inconvenienced for a few days but did he have to do miltary service once he produced the required documents? NO.

The lad has lived in the UK since he was 4 years old. He has dual nationality. He did not deliberately flaunt any laws of the TRNC. He happened to reach his 18th birthday whilst in the north. YOU said he was allowed 90 days. Obviously that is not the case!!

INCONVENIENCED!!!! He had to pay for further accommodation and another flight home. HE IS EIGHTEEN!!

One in thousands, was it resolved amicably? you have to abide by the
laws of that country ignorance is not an excuse.

IT WAS YOU WHO SAID HE COULD STAY 90 DAYS WHICH PLAINLY TURNED OUT NOT TO BE TRUE!! This was the issue I took up with you.

If it was not true for my nephew it would not be true for Kikapu either.

You have to produce the correct documentation, obviously your nephew was a one off proble which was amicablly resolved, thousands of men have no problem, have you bothered to read the previous posts?

It was NOT amicably resolved. Holding someone against their will may be alright by you but isn't for the rest of us. YES I have bothered to read the posts. How do you know this is a one off? Have you researched it?

[Jerry]

Perhaps the TCs should be offered "Annan 6". Either keep 18% on the island and do whatever you like with it (union with Turkey, independent state, confederation etc) OR agree to an international "judicial reveue" of the Cyprus problem where we go back to pre 1960 and determine what would have been a fair and just Constitution without the interference of the UK, Turkey, Greece and the US.
You cannot create a "state" by military force and expect the civilised world to accept you. All of the pressure that are being applied by TRNC on ROC are illegal (appropriation of land, importing settlers, stationing 40,000 troops etc) whereas most if not all the leverage applied the other way is perfectly legal in international law. The biggest problem the TRNC has is that it cannot stand on it's own two feet even without the embargoes, you have a choice become Cypriot or Turkish, you cannot be both in present circumstances.

[sweetie pie]

By the way, had he not been able to produce information to tell them he was still in school he would not have been allowed out of the country.
I say again. YOU said people have 90 days which evidently they have not

[Kikapu]

Dear Kikapu,

First of all thank you for sharing with us this story, your feelings and through your words you made us have this journey with you. Thank you for sharing with us details about your trip, your feelings, and the places you visited etc. You even had the courage to talk about your cousin honestly and not just tell us that you saw a family member. Thank you for being honest.

Now I want to apologise for pushing you to finish the story and as you said giving you a deadline made you write less than you wanted. I apologise for that. By the way my name is LENA with E not A.

I will start with my comments from what I read after your story. Sorry that took me so long but I was in bed with fever…ok here we go…


And Kikapu …are you sure that you could see so many Cypriot flags? Yes its our flag and you can see it every now and then but not so many …

For one more time Kikapu…THANK YOU FOR THAT!

LENA,

It seems like a common mistake, that a lot of us make with your name, which I do apologise.

I'm very happy that you found the "report" interesting to read. I don't work too well under pressure or deadlines, however.!!

The flag issues are this. When I said there were a lot of Cypriot flags over Greek flags, that was true, since we spent a lot of times around the coast, which all the boats, small and large had Cypriot flags. Some also had Greek flags also, together. Most churches or Government or public buildings, had either both or just Cypriot flag. Along the green line check points, it had both, on all the locations, as far as I can remember. No, they were not every 20 meters, as you described the North, but most certainly, more Cypriot flags, than Greek flags.

Did you see any Cypriot flags in the North LENA.??

I hope you will get better soon. I expected more questions from you.

[Kikapu]

By the way, had he not been able to produce information to tell them he was still in school he would not have been allowed out of the country.
I say again. YOU said people have 90 days which evidently they have not

You will get some idea in this "official site" of the military service requirements. But don't expect to be followed. It all depends who is working that day, and how much they really care, to give you the correct information. You are made to be a citizen of a de facto state, the "TRNC", and forced to follow their rules, and there's nothing the British government can do about it, if you are also a British citizen.

http://www.guvkk.net/asal/askeralma_ENG.htm

It's funny, that VP does not mention this to everyone to read.

It clearly states, that everyone must do their military service, before age 49.

[Kikapu]

8) Firstly thank you Kikapu for sharing your experiences with us on the forum. I for one ( as a neutral ) found it a very interesting and informative read and im sure it was quite an emotional experience.
Incidentally my father in law, a Lithuanian, (now passed on) came to this country at the end of WW2 as a displaced person and never saw his country or relatives until the russians left in 1995, and i know what a momentous and emotional journey was his return, his first wife having died in the war.
I cannot believe the torrent of abuse and nastiness eminating from some of the so called "TC"s on this forum towards you.
I know some of them are partitionists but i really think that they are too busy with their hatred towards "free" Cyprus to realise what is happening in their own back yard.
Turkey will never give up the part of Cyprus it occupied (yes thats the right word) and continues to now. It ( with T.C. blessing?) allows thousands of TURKISH people to settle in the occupied territory and occupy and build on land that is owned by dispossesed people (is this beginning to sound vaguely familiar) The T.C,s remaining are slowly being overwhelmed and overrun by settlers and eventually will have no voice or representation at all as TURKEY imposes its will on ITS colonised outpost and declares occupied Cyprus as THEIRS.
There is turmoil in big brother Turkey right now....what happens IF it becomes a less moderate Islamic state? How will the T.C. brothers feel under Sharia law? My personal opinion is that T.C.s may want to keep an eye on their own backyard instead of hurling abuse at one T.C who went on a voyage of discovery to see the "enemy" for himself......

Thanks for reading it BOF. I don't take it as abuse from the Partitionist. It gives me an opportunity to point out their Agenda. They are only hurting themselves. Then again, it make good debate and I do not take it personally. But once in a while, I do get pissed off with them, would be the time for them to buy extra large jar off Vaseline, because they will be getting a lot of "fisting" from me.

On this trip, at times, it was very emotional for me, specially going to the school, where we were kept as prisoners for a week. Seeing those young school kids there, going to their class or playing in the same court yard, where we also played, back in 1963, who had no idea who I was, as I walked amongst them, taking pictures, as the teachers got a little concerned. Perhaps the teachers thought, that I was back for revenge. I would have really liked to have had the chance to speak to the kids about the small part of the history of their school. Perhaps next time.