Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

He did not visit the occupied part of Cyprus because the British and the American foreign offices advised him that as a British national as well as an American national he could not rely on their respective embassies , which do not exist in the occupied part , to offer him sanctuary should the need arose. As far as your vitriolic comments "and never think about TCs as being his own people."" Let me refresh your memory that his OWN people are the Cypriot people just as they are my people , T/C and G/Cs alike. You consider your self , as you have on many occasions stated , a Turk , that sees Cyprus as another foreign country . Well mate you are wrong. Kikapu has got more Cypriotness in his little finger than you have in your entire body.

.

My good friend Miltiades is absolutely correct, in what he says. If the Partitionist and the Propagandist had an once of integrity, they would not have challenged him, but since they have, I will have to respond.

Since most of you have British Passports, look at page 3, article 6 on Dual Nationalities. " British National who are also Nationals of another country cannot be protected by Her Majesty's Representatives against the authorities of that country. If, under the laws of that country, they are liable for any obligation ( such as Military Service), the fact that they are British nationals, does not exempt them from it".

For American Citizens, it's even worse.
Pages 4 & 5,

Article 8. Loss of U:S Citizenship: "Under certain circumstances, you may lose your US citizenship by (3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state".

Dual Citizens.
Article 9. Very much same as the British Passport, with warning about being "conscription for military service for it's citizens, while in that countries jurisdiction".

We all know that the "TRNC" is not a country, but I did not want to deal with it.

You are still ignoring the fact that you may visit the TRNC for upto 90days a year without having to do miltary service. In time due to your age you will no longer have to do any miltary service and allowing for the fact you will never come to live in the TRNC whats your problem? You may visit without any problems but you know what its better that you never see the north as you will find and promote all its faults to gain points from your GC bum chums.

Why is then that my nephew ( turkish cypriot) was held in northern cyprus and refused permission to fly home to the UK because they said he had to do his national service? He missed his plane and had to provide faxed information to inform them he was still at school in the UK (he had just had his 18th birthday while over in Cyprus? It took over a week to sort that out and his passport was withheld so that he could not leave? This was last year by the way

Obviously he tried to flaunt the laws of the TRNC and was inconvenienced for a few days but did he have to do miltary service once he produced the required documents? NO.

The lad has lived in the UK since he was 4 years old. He has dual nationality. He did not deliberately flaunt any laws of the TRNC. He happened to reach his 18th birthday whilst in the north. YOU said he was allowed 90 days. Obviously that is not the case!!

INCONVENIENCED!!!! He had to pay for further accommodation and another flight home. HE IS EIGHTEEN!!

One in thousands, was it resolved amicably? you have to abide by the
laws of that country ignorance is not an excuse.

IT WAS YOU WHO SAID HE COULD STAY 90 DAYS WHICH PLAINLY TURNED OUT NOT TO BE TRUE!! This was the issue I took up with you.

If it was not true for my nephew it would not be true for Kikapu either.

You have to produce the correct documentation, obviously your nephew was a one off proble which was amicablly resolved, thousands of men have no problem, have you bothered to read the previous posts?

[Viewpoint]

When I make a statement on the things that the RoC has acted upon that I believe are wrong or at least hypocritical I get heralded by the Turkish Speaking Cypriots on the forum, similarly when I make suggestions on how the RoC can do more things to support the Turkish Speaking Cyprots, living on Cyprus.

How come when Kikapu speaks negatively of the trnc administration, he gets blasted from the Turkish Speaking Cypriots and is called a greek in disguise etc .............?

Is honesty really that bitter to bear? I do not think that the trnc is so perfect as some members on this forum would like us to believe. Surely if a child turns 18 years of age whilst on the Island, the trnc would have a some law to look at that issue. Gee even the RoC with its bureacracy in disfunction, allows for that. You may also get a 90 day exit permit as well as a permanent permit to allow you a stay of up to 3 months ever time you visit Cyprus with a further 3 months to be gotten once on Cyprus and after the expiry date of the first one, though you need to organise this before the expiry date. Speaking from a family experience.

You are right the TRNC is farfrom perfect we have many problems the biggest being the GC imposed isolation but the 18yo example is a one off and was resolved amicably. Anyone crossing to the south without propper documentation according to "RoC" laws is also requried to bring the correct documentation to meet legal requirements so they may proceed on their way, why si everyone making such a big deal of one case thousands enter and leave the TRNC with no problems.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu
I used to think more or less on the same lines as you until the checkpoints opened and we started mixing with GC's...
In fact i opposed the partitionist TRNC administrations all my life in all ways,be it election times be it demonstrations against their actions...Back in 2002 i spent weeks on the streets demonstrating against them rallying for reunification...
But,as i said when the checkpoints opened and we started interacting with each other,i saw the bitter truth that GC's in general were not thinking along the same lines..
You can say we are all Cypriots,but to them they are more Cypriot than any other..they have that huge chip on the shoulder...
I do not like the idea of being treated as a second class citizen in my own country..
I am not saying TRNC is perfect but at least i don't have that feeling on this side of the border and that means a lot to me...
Having said that,the bottom line as you have put it...I do not hate any GC as long as they show me the same respect i show them as a fellow countryman...After all we are all Cypriots by birth weather we like it or not..

Well said, I agree with you totally.

[miltiades]

Kikapu
I used to think more or less on the same lines as you until the checkpoints opened and we started mixing with GC's...
In fact i opposed the partitionist TRNC administrations all my life in all ways,be it election times be it demonstrations against their actions...Back in 2002 i spent weeks on the streets demonstrating against them rallying for reunification...
But,as i said when the checkpoints opened and we started interacting with each other,i saw the bitter truth that GC's in general were not thinking along the same lines..
You can say we are all Cypriots,but to them they are more Cypriot than any other..they have that huge chip on the shoulder...
I do not like the idea of being treated as a second class citizen in my own country..
I am not saying TRNC is perfect but at least i don't have that feeling on this side of the border and that means a lot to me...
Having said that,the bottom line as you have put it...I do not hate any GC as long as they show me the same respect i show them as a fellow countryman...After all we are all Cypriots by birth weather we like it or not..

Well said, I agree with you totally.

And so do I. In my country of birth I do not want my fellow Cypriots to be anything else but equal citizens , just as I'm an equal citizen in the UK and I wasn't even born here.
No one likes to be a second class citizen and none more someone born in Cyprus who considers the island to be his nation and not some other nation's side kick.

[LENA]

Dear Kikapu,

First of all thank you for sharing with us this story, your feelings and through your words you made us have this journey with you. Thank you for sharing with us details about your trip, your feelings, and the places you visited etc. You even had the courage to talk about your cousin honestly and not just tell us that you saw a family member. Thank you for being honest.

Now I want to apologise for pushing you to finish the story and as you said giving you a deadline made you write less than you wanted. I apologise for that. By the way my name is LENA with E not A.

I will start with my comments from what I read after your story. Sorry that took me so long but I was in bed with fever…ok here we go…

@ T_C

You mention the Greek flags all over the island (south part). Well T_C have you been there? I live for 22 years and to be honest the last few years I hardly see any Greek flag. The only flag that I see every now and then are the Cypriot flag. I am not saying that you can not find a Grek flag but are not so many any more. I remember that few years ago you could see flags everywhere…not anymore. You have the chance to see so many flags during national holidays. But to be honest I was shocked when I came to the north part. I could see a Turkish flag every 20m. In the gas station, business, shops, Universities, government buildings, houses…all over … even in road bridges and half finished houses. It was a bit ridiculous.
And Kikapu …are you sure that you could see so many Cypriot flags? Yes its our flag and you can see it every now and then but not so many …

@ iceman

You said that Kikapu said to the GC about his story over and over again…and that he didn’t agree with the whole situation with the Turkish army etc. What did he had to tell them? That he is a TC that hates everything that comes from a GC or Greek? He only expressed what he really believed and not what they wanted to hear. If that was his purpose then why he didn’t lie about being a TC and take his chances to be treated bad as most of you(TC) here think?

You said that you visit south every 3-4 times a week and you have been treated bad. You also said that you do not hate any GC as long as they show you the same respect. Well are you sure that they don’t show you exactly the same respect as you show them?

@ Zan

You said that “RoC is an illegal entity that is not recognised by the TRNC or Turkey”
This is the most ridiculous comment that I have ever read in this forum. Do you actually know what you wrote there? The RoC is the illegal state…not what you call “TRNC”? The fact that the whole world recognises the RoC apart from the country that invaded and illegally occupies the north part of the island doesn’t really tell you anything? Do you hear any bells ringing on that?

@ Kikapu

What is all about the surname issue? Did Turkey force you to change your surname? Why?

I have a question about that person that you said is a member of the forum and helped you a lot. I respect your wish but if you could answer only that I will appreciate it … but even if you don’t I will respect it. He was a TC or GC? (not that will make so much difference but I just want to see the picture with both of you talking there)

About the Haram and Halal…well I am not Turkish and I am not that old to know how they used to talk in Cyprus before the war…but I know those words and we use them as well…we say harami and halali with common meanings to what you have.

As for the rest that are against Kikapu…I have some questions …
What is his point that everyone understood? What was the reason that he bothered to tell us all that?
Why he must be a GC from the way he describe things? We knew his views before he visit Cyprus. Why telling us the truth makes him GC? Because he present things with the way that he saw them and not like some TC here want to present?

As for being there only for vacations for 2 weeks and not living there…yes is true that things might be different…in the way that life is not travelling around and visiting lovely places, restaurant and talking to people. But is the same in the way that people might treat you. Why is that so difficult for some of you to understand?

For one more time Kikapu…THANK YOU FOR THAT!

[Piratis]

You told them you are a TC that has been away for 40 years,(in other words dont blame me for what went on while i was away) Wink you also told them you dont approve the Turkish "invasion" (by the way no TC uses the word "invasion" another brownie point for you there) Wink you also told them you dont like the ugly grafitti on the mountains...and that you want all the refugees to go back to their homes and the big bad Turkish army to go home..by this time they are so fond of you they would even go and find baklava for you at midnight..

So in other words he showed some respect, and he got respect in return.

If you are asking if he would get the same kind of treatment if he was going around saying that he supports the human rights violations of people, the stealing of their land and the illegalities against them, then probably you are right, he wouldn't. You give respect, you get respect. If you give disrespect, then disrespect is what you will get in return.

Its called licking arse and feeding you what you want to hear to obtain acceptence and praise.

It is called respect. But obviously you don't know what respect means and this is why you are not able to recognize it.

[Piratis]

iceman, you said:

I used to think more or less on the same lines as you until the checkpoints opened and we started mixing with GC's...

But previusly you also said:

You repeadetly wrote that everytime you met someone you had to tell them your life story before they could accept you..
I wonder what you told them...let me guess..
You told them you are a TC that has been away for 40 years,(in other words dont blame me for what went on while i was away) Wink you also told them you dont approve the Turkish "invasion" (by the way no TC uses the word "invasion" another brownie point for you there) Wink you also told them you dont like the ugly grafitti on the mountains...and that you want all the refugees to go back to their homes and the big bad Turkish army to go home..by this time they are so fond of you they would even go and find baklava for you at midnight..

So basically the difference is that unlike Kikapu you didn't show respect to GCs. You showed to them that you support the occupation of their lands and the violation of their human rights. You didn't show respect, you didn't get respect. Simple.

There is no doubt that on both sides (and worldwide in general) their are some racists. But those are a minority. For the rest of the people, if you show to them respect, then respect is what is you will get in return.

[Piratis]

Although my experience of GCs has been somewhat limited because I live in the UK, I have had similar feelings from the GCs I have known/still know. The fact that I'm a Turkish CYPRIOT hasn't mattered, they have just seen me as a "Turk" and themselves as Cypriots. Perhaps this is just the view of an uneducated (or more accurately an un- or misinformed) few. However, the vast majority on this forum don't seem to harbour these views or feelings.

This has a lot of how TCs "market" themselves as well. Even the state they tried to create (which is the ultimate thing when you define your identity) they called it the "Turkish republic of northern Cyprus" with a flag that resembles the Turkish one. Then they gave this "trnc" citizenship to 10s of thousands of settlers. If you add to them the rest of the Turks that now live in occupied Cyprus (students, workers, army etc) then the Turks are by far the majority there.

Therefore you should not only blame those GCs for being uneducated, you should also blame your leadership for helping this wrong impression to be created.

You should also listen to Viewpoint when he calls the southern part of Cyprus as a "foreign country". Of course what VP is trying to pass is nothing else than his usual partition crap, that there is this "trnc" and anything beyond its "borders" is a foreign country.
However no GC recognizes any "trnc" or any "borders". So when a TC tells him that some part of Cyprus is a foreign land, then the only way this can be interpreted by a GC is that this person is not Cypriot and this is why Cyprus is foreign to him.

[Kikapu]

My immediate family have bought no GC land, for example the land I built my home on is TC title deeds. But Im sure my extended family have, as the generations grow and the developers build on GC land then nearly all TC families will have a link with GC land this will continue to increase as we do not find a solution, this is only natural.

VP,

Excuse me for pushing this issue, but with you, I feel that I need to, because your answers are not always precise, as they should be in this case. It seems that, all the GC land that were given to the TC's or to the settlers, whether it was in an "exchange" for TC land in the South, or any GC land that was directly bought, all had a TC title deeds. In other words, any TC title deeds today, may in fact be a GC land. Unless one has a pre 74 TC titles, yours may well be a GC land. You should know, if the price you paid for the land was much lower than, average (real) TC land.

I understand the expansion point you are making by the way. No doubt, some GC land will be used for housing people. The fact that there are thousands of settlers there, when they should not have been, it is a self inflicted wound, but be that may, if any one has built on GC land, will have to pay the original owners, if and when a solution is found.

When I ask the question of buying GC land, I'm really referring to buying large amounts, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200+ Donums or so, so that there is a huge rewards to be made, by forcing a partition. Those build on a Donum or less, was not what I was really asking.

You seem really concerned with whether I have purchased large amounts of GC land then to put your mind at rest I have not and nor has my family as far as I am aware, sorry to burst your bubble. My house is built on pre 1974 TC title deeds I made sure of this when I decided to buy back in the early 90s.

I only asked the question regarding owning GC land, and like Zan, you have answered it. I can only take both your words for it and accept it, as being the truth. I'm happy to hear, that you and your family has not built a future for yourselves, at the expense of the rightful owners. For that, you are commended and earn respect, and that you and your family will not suffer from the effects of "HARAM".

[Kikapu]

Its called licking arse and feeding you what you want to hear to obtain acceptence and praise.

You must be an expert by now, regarding "arse licking". You have been trying to kiss and do kiss the worlds ARSE, so to let the de facto state called the "TRNC", to be recognized. You have already got your head so far up Turkeys arse, you don't even have a "brown nose" anymore, but a "Ring around your Neck".