Cyprus-Forum.com

[mem101]

Although my experience of GCs has been somewhat limited because I live in the UK, I have had similar feelings from the GCs I have known/still know. The fact that I'm a Turkish CYPRIOT hasn't mattered, they have just seen me as a "Turk" and themselves as Cypriots. Perhaps this is just the view of an uneducated (or more accurately an un- or misinformed) few. However, the vast majority on this forum don't seem to harbour these views or feelings.

[humanist]

mem101, I do believe that there are portions of greek speaking cypriots who do consider turkish speaking cypriots as turks, for that I am sorry that there are people in and away from cyprus that feel that way, on a personal level all I can do is attempt to break the stereotypes. most greek speaking cypriots that ended up in the uk came from poor peasant families and were infact uneducated and stil are i guess.

the likes of some turkish cypriots though who do get on the forum are staunch pro-turkey supporters wanting a divided cyprus, claiming turkey to be their saviour, if some turkish cypriots hold this view themselves how is it possible that greek speaking cypiots will not. people even claim that they are better off in the trnc than what they were in the RoC or even could be. i believe that people need to take some responsibility about their own views in terms to educate and change pre-conceived perceptions.

i personally believe that if we as individuals want too, we can change the face of cyprus immediately. however we have given our powers away to the politicians and hence feel powerless. personally i believe that each turkish speaking cypriot ought to move to the south and demand, demand, demand equal rights in all aspects of cypriot life and I strongly believe that the RoC government ought to do more to be more inclussive, firstly getting rid of the blasted greek flag, seconly changing the national anthem, thridly is making turkish cypriot owned property in the south occupied by greek speaking refugees available to the rightful owners and yes the rfugee will be put out but bad luck they can be re-housed .... it is time we lived by example, perhaps the more welocoming we become of turkish speaking cypriots the more turkish cypritos will be of greek speakers.

[zan]

Everyones allowed their say, those who don't like it should leave the forum themselves.

Sorry but I have to be honest...

I agree with VP and zan! I appreciate and have some what enjoyed reading Kikapus story but I also find it biased. It seems Kikapu has a habit of generalising everyone, like comparing his cousins views to every other Turkish Cypriot and generalising all GCs as angels from a 2 week holiday. You generalised all the TCs in the South as good people who get on with the GCs and generalised the TCs in the North as partitionists and criminals who are just after land. Why didn't he mention the Greek flags all over Cyprus instead of nit picking on everything bad he could find about Turkish people?

Kikapu blatantly went there with an agenda, I would like Kikapu to go live over there before being so sure and writing such a "report". I don't mind his story and understand the point he's trying to make, but I've absolutely cringed at his determination to prove himself right by any means possible. I appreciate his point of view but NOT the way in which he so confidently (and naively) come to a conclusion out of a 2 week holiday after being away for decades. Certain parts of this story were a bit toooo predictable and some parts appear soooo "manufactured".

Sorry mate but I don't know how you can write these things with such certainty from a poxy 2 week holiday. You're entitled your say without people jumping down your throat I agree, but at least do it in a professional level and not write as though you are so sure you are right when you've been away for SO long and not even been to the North to see or speak to the people properly. You went completely OTT in your quest to shut VP and zan up! So much that it has become rather transparent.

Still this has turned into a phenomenal thread guys! Well done to all those involved

Hello T_C,

You are one of my favourite members here, and I take your critisisms of my report, or parts of it, willingly.

I'm glad you mentioned the presence of Greek Flags. When we first arrived in Larnaca, they seem to be everywhere. They actually were not, but the appearance was very evident. In all honesty, I did not like it, and that also added further pressure on me, feeling out of place a little. But what countered the Greek Flags, were the presence of Cypriot Flags. There were far more Cypriot Flags, than any other Flags. But as we travelled through out the country, they seem to be less and less, except for Nicosia. I don't think I saw a Greek Flag on a boat or a building, that did not also have the Cypriot Flag. On the boat trip that I took, the "Fantasy", had only the Cypriot Flag.

Now let me ask you a question. Are you happy with the 2 huge Flags on the mountain, because I was not. And if I came to the North, and did not see any Cypriot Flags, I would have been really pissed off. Are there any Cypriot flags by the way, in the North.?? So, say what you want about the Greek flags being there, and I would agree with you, that it was not "my cup of tea", but at least, large majority of the Flags flown in the RoC, were in fact, the Cypriot Flags.

On my cousins story. The husband was a complete Partitionist and bragged about his family's gains of Greek Land, while we were eating in a GC restaurant. I was totally uncomfortable with the whole situation, and when the Partitionist on the Forum give their reasons why they want a Partition, they never mention the land -grab aspect of their reasons. At least the cousin's husband was honest. I only call those who want to cash in on GC lands criminals at the expense of destroying this small islands future. I do not call TC's in General, as criminals, even if it comes across that way, when it is written.

I was not here to solve the Cyprus problem. I'm not even saying, that I have proved to everyone, that everything is just fine between the two communities. What I did prove to myself, was not to have fears in the future, no matter what the Partitionist may say, if I wanted to come and visit the South again. This is still my country after all, and not a foreign place, like VP always likes to call it. We drove 1556 Kilometers and tried to meet with who ever we had a chance to talk with. I did not spend one minute on any deck chairs on the beach or by the swimming pool. I wanted to go and see, as much as possible, and we did.

I had a small list of things to talk about in my report, but forgot to look at it, which includes other things, such as animals (cats and dogs), Turkish-Greek TV and Radio shows and Music, and English cooked style vegetables, and the absence of "drop dead gorgeous Russian Girls" that everyone is talking about on the Forum. Where the hell were they.

Perhaps Lana was out of town, on one of her business trips.

What part of "I never said that the GCs were all bad people" do you not understand? I have asked you to provide any posts of mine in which I said that without my tongue placed firmly in my cheek. You have provided no such post because it does not exist. You are using this lie to bolster your story. I have always said that the administration is the problem. No matter how many times I say it you ignore it because it goes against your whole story. The whole episode with your so-called family did not happen either. If parts of it did happen then the rest was a complete fabrication. You even misinterpreted your own lies and gave us some cock and bull story about greed. Is this the same greed that drives the GC estate agents to sell property in the north. It seems that YOUR partner in crime Birkibrisli has not even got the face to back up your little story and is going to claim that he was away for a while. I am sorry but you guys are so transparent it is laughable. As far as the property issue goes...What did you expect the TCs to do after the Annan plan OXI from the GCs. The so-called RoC trying to starve then out is one thing but self-inflicted persecution is best left for masochists. Sure we gave you a chance to sort this problem out and with your usual intransigence and greed you double-crossed us. Why don't we sit around and wait for another 40 years while you guys play more games. The RoC is an illegal entity that is not recognised by the TRNC/KKTC or Turkey and should not have been recognised by anyone else let alone allowed entry into the EU. The boarder disputes alone do not qualify it for entry. The OXI to the Annan plan set us free from our consciences and ties to a so-called government that wants nothing to do with us. You can keep them.

[Viewpoint]

My immediate family have bought no GC land, for example the land I built my home on is TC title deeds. But Im sure my extended family have, as the generations grow and the developers build on GC land then nearly all TC families will have a link with GC land this will continue to increase as we do not find a solution, this is only natural.

VP,

Excuse me for pushing this issue, but with you, I feel that I need to, because your answers are not always precise, as they should be in this case. It seems that, all the GC land that were given to the TC's or to the settlers, whether it was in an "exchange" for TC land in the South, or any GC land that was directly bought, all had a TC title deeds. In other words, any TC title deeds today, may in fact be a GC land. Unless one has a pre 74 TC titles, yours may well be a GC land. You should know, if the price you paid for the land was much lower than, average (real) TC land.

I understand the expansion point you are making by the way. No doubt, some GC land will be used for housing people. The fact that there are thousands of settlers there, when they should not have been, it is a self inflicted wound, but be that may, if any one has built on GC land, will have to pay the original owners, if and when a solution is found.

When I ask the question of buying GC land, I'm really referring to buying large amounts, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200+ Donums or so, so that there is a huge rewards to be made, by forcing a partition. Those build on a Donum or less, was not what I was really asking.

You seem really concerned with whether I have purchased large amounts of GC land then to put your mind at rest I have not and nor has my family as far as I am aware, sorry to burst your bubble. My house is built on pre 1974 TC title deeds I made sure of this when I decided to buy back in the early 90s.

[Viewpoint]

It’s not a prerequisite that VP agrees with our views and we should also keep in mind that VP’s posts are always courteous and well written and I respect and appreciate that.

Thank you GR I try but sometimes it very hard to control your temper against other more flipant, rude and scarcastic posters.

[Viewpoint]

The fact that you put "RoC" within inverted commas is an indication of your paranoid perversion. Yes, some have put TRNC within inverted commas because it calls itself a republic but isn't one. The definition of the term is " Any State in which supreme power is held by the people or their elected representatives as opp. to by a monarch etc.; a commonwealth." A State (which the TRNC isn't), which is occupied by a foreign power. cannot have the supreme power held by the people because the people would not tolerate the occupation. The "TRNC" is, in fact, a non-state and a non-republic.

OTOH, the RoC or ROC is a republic, officially recognised by every country in the world (except Turkey) and therefore suggesting it isn't by your inverted commas is another of your lying implications.

I belong to neither side and am neutral. I live in the ROC and have visited the "TRNC" a number of times. I have nothing whatsoever against the people I have met in the north, I have found them every bit as pleasant as those in the Republic, perhaps even more so. Happily, I don't believe we have met as I don't like stupid people from either side (yes, I have met some stupid people in the ROC). What I have said here is based on my perception of International Law. I am pleased that Kikapu had a pleasant stay and I don't consider that his apprehension of visiting the north is totally unjustified. If he had done so, I'm sure that his stay would have been just as good as in the Republic.

Did you even bother to read my posts? ho sorry I should have can you read and comprehend at them same time? or is that asking to much.

[Viewpoint]

What the VP's and Zan's are upset about, is not the fact it is one sided story ( actually an experience in the South), which is not a story with anything political, it puts them to shame, on how they can't lie about what will happen to the TC's, if they lived with the GC's.

If you think that by spending two weeks on holiday down south & knocking of TC's at every oportunity you have proven to anyone,nothing will happen to TC's if we lived under GC administration you are fooling yourself...I would have thought you had more intelligence!!!
Your experience is no different than a "summer love" or "holiday fling" where reality hits the day holiday ends..

Who is knocking any TC down. You had the Partitionist argue my experience in the South as being one sided. If I travelled to the North, it still would have been one sided. How can any experience in anything be otherwise. I was not writing a book on the Cyprus issues, for needing information from both sides, as not to be one sided.. That's the only thing I wrote about, my experience as a traveller or did you and others read something else, that I wrote, regarding putting the TC's down. Each page is numbered, so please, give me a page, where I said anything against the TC's. The Partitionist don't even believe what I wrote, to be true. So I guess they believe, it is not possible for a TC, to be well treated in the South. I would encourage you to go also, and tell us, how it was for you, because I'm only speaking for myself, that's all.

One can have a bad time anywhere that they travel to, which has nothing to do with politics, but are you not pleased, that, after me being gone for such a long time, I felt at home, by being in Cyprus. Unlike the Partitionist, I consider all of Cyprus to be my home, and not just the North. All that had happened was, I did not get to see all of my country, because the North wants to have different rules for me, then the rest of my country. When those problems are solved by the "TRNC", I would be there in a flash.

You continue to miss the point, you totally ignored the reality of the Cyprus issue that the TRNC exsists and functions just like any other country in the world. All you really established is that south Cyprus is beautiful and the GCs you met are nice people, which no one has denied, you could have achieved the same in Italy or France no different, your loss.

[Viewpoint]

He did not visit the occupied part of Cyprus because the British and the American foreign offices advised him that as a British national as well as an American national he could not rely on their respective embassies , which do not exist in the occupied part , to offer him sanctuary should the need arose. As far as your vitriolic comments "and never think about TCs as being his own people."" Let me refresh your memory that his OWN people are the Cypriot people just as they are my people , T/C and G/Cs alike. You consider your self , as you have on many occasions stated , a Turk , that sees Cyprus as another foreign country . Well mate you are wrong. Kikapu has got more Cypriotness in his little finger than you have in your entire body.

.

My good friend Miltiades is absolutely correct, in what he says. If the Partitionist and the Propagandist had an once of integrity, they would not have challenged him, but since they have, I will have to respond.

Since most of you have British Passports, look at page 3, article 6 on Dual Nationalities. " British National who are also Nationals of another country cannot be protected by Her Majesty's Representatives against the authorities of that country. If, under the laws of that country, they are liable for any obligation ( such as Military Service), the fact that they are British nationals, does not exempt them from it".

For American Citizens, it's even worse.
Pages 4 & 5,

Article 8. Loss of U:S Citizenship: "Under certain circumstances, you may lose your US citizenship by (3) serving in the armed forces of a foreign state".

Dual Citizens.
Article 9. Very much same as the British Passport, with warning about being "conscription for military service for it's citizens, while in that countries jurisdiction".

We all know that the "TRNC" is not a country, but I did not want to deal with it.

You are still ignoring the fact that you may visit the TRNC for upto 90days a year without having to do miltary service. In time due to your age you will no longer have to do any miltary service and allowing for the fact you will never come to live in the TRNC whats your problem? You may visit without any problems but you know what its better that you never see the north as you will find and promote all its faults to gain points from your GC bum chums.

Why is then that my nephew ( turkish cypriot) was held in northern cyprus and refused permission to fly home to the UK because they said he had to do his national service? He missed his plane and had to provide faxed information to inform them he was still at school in the UK (he had just had his 18th birthday while over in Cyprus? It took over a week to sort that out and his passport was withheld so that he could not leave? This was last year by the way

Obviously he tried to flaunt the laws of the TRNC and was inconvenienced for a few days but did he have to do miltary service once he produced the required documents? NO.

The lad has lived in the UK since he was 4 years old. He has dual nationality. He did not deliberately flaunt any laws of the TRNC. He happened to reach his 18th birthday whilst in the north. YOU said he was allowed 90 days. Obviously that is not the case!!

INCONVENIENCED!!!! He had to pay for further accommodation and another flight home. HE IS EIGHTEEN!!

One in thousands, was it resolved amicably? you have to abide by the laws of that country ignorance is not an excuse.

what laws, what country?

The one you choose to ignore and the one we choose to live in.

[Viewpoint]

You told them you are a TC that has been away for 40 years,(in other words dont blame me for what went on while i was away) Wink you also told them you dont approve the Turkish "invasion" (by the way no TC uses the word "invasion" another brownie point for you there) Wink you also told them you dont like the ugly grafitti on the mountains...and that you want all the refugees to go back to their homes and the big bad Turkish army to go home..by this time they are so fond of you they would even go and find baklava for you at midnight..

So in other words he showed some respect, and he got respect in return.

If you are asking if he would get the same kind of treatment if he was going around saying that he supports the human rights violations of people, the stealing of their land and the illegalities against them, then probably you are right, he wouldn't. You give respect, you get respect. If you give disrespect, then disrespect is what you will get in return.

Its called licking arse and feeding you what you want to hear to obtain acceptence and praise.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu,
My dad is in his late 50s, he was born in Cyprus, a TC and lived there until the late 1960s. In the past few years, he and my mother have visited the TRNC several times for weeks at a time and he has never had any trouble whatsoever with military service, getting in and out of the country or anything at all for that matter.

All I'm saying is, next time you go to Cyprus you should more seriously consider crossing the Green Line or just flying to Ercan via Turkey.

I'm very happy to hear, that your family has been going to Cyprus, without problems. I have stated the same, from what Ive heard from others, but same time, heard the contrary. That has been my whole problem with the "TRNC", is that, there does not seem to be "one law". I got different stories from different "TRNC" agencies.

It's encouraging all the same...thanks.

You appear to be the only one claiming anything to the contrary I wonder why? well I know why really.