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Kikapu's time in Cyprus........

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Postby T_C » Fri May 04, 2007 7:41 pm

Everyones allowed their say, those who don't like it should leave the forum themselves. :evil:

Sorry but I have to be honest...

I agree with VP and zan! I appreciate and have some what enjoyed reading Kikapus story but I also find it biased. It seems Kikapu has a habit of generalising everyone, like comparing his cousins views to every other Turkish Cypriot and generalising all GCs as angels from a 2 week holiday. You generalised all the TCs in the South as good people who get on with the GCs and generalised the TCs in the North as partitionists and criminals who are just after land. Why didn't he mention the Greek flags all over Cyprus instead of nit picking on everything bad he could find about Turkish people?

Kikapu blatantly went there with an agenda, I would like Kikapu to go live over there before being so sure and writing such a "report". I don't mind his story and understand the point he's trying to make, but I've absolutely cringed at his determination to prove himself right by any means possible. I appreciate his point of view but NOT the way in which he so confidently (and naively) come to a conclusion out of a 2 week holiday after being away for decades. Certain parts of this story were a bit toooo predictable and some parts appear soooo "manufactured".

Sorry mate but I don't know how you can write these things with such certainty from a poxy 2 week holiday. You're entitled your say without people jumping down your throat I agree, but at least do it in a professional level and not write as though you are so sure you are right when you've been away for SO long and not even been to the North to see or speak to the people properly. You went completely OTT in your quest to shut VP and zan up! So much that it has become rather transparent. :lol:

Still this has turned into a phenomenal thread guys! :lol: Well done to all those involved :lol:
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 04, 2007 7:43 pm

Birkibrisli wrote:Kikapu...Thanks for your moving story,and my special thanks for kissing the ground for me in Paphos...Not that I doubt it but it would be unreal to see a photo of that if someone took one.Not in the open forum obviously... :wink:

I couldn't help but cry when you mentioned the story of the old GC women and their heartache over their lost homes and land...My mother is 86 now and she hasn't seen her village in the South for over 40 years too.She says she doesn't want to go there,as she is afraid of dropping dead with grief... :cry:

You have certainly given me a lot to think about.As some here know I have not been home for 40 years too(not including my trips to the TRNC).
I now know that I have no other option but follow your example and exorcise some long-standing ghosts in my motherland...At the risk of being called Birkopoulos by VP and accused of being a GC imposter too... :)

Haram is indeed a religious concept...Meaning anything that is not sanctioned by the Koran...Its opposite is Halal (or Helal in Turkish).
It is an Arabic word.Haram applies to the worst kind of sins people can commit.Like incest,murder,theft etc...If one committs even one sin that is Haram he/she has no chance of ever going to heaven... :lol:

You have all been warned... :lol:

PS.No amount of "debriefing" by VP and Zan will diminish the effect of your story,dear Kikapu...I embrace you warmly and kiss your eyes (gozlerinden operim!!!) for having the courage not only to go through with this trip,but also for telling us your story in such clear and warm way...congratulations ,my fellow Cypriot... 8)


Bir,

I had a lot on my mind going to Cyprus, which was not always comfortable for me, going into the unknown, so to speak. I had less concerns, sailing across Two Oceans with only a week-end sailing course under my belt, 20 years ago.!

I wrote more than I really needed to, but it was for your benefit and for others, who may have similar concerns. I could in fact, could have written another page, but LANA gave me a deadline, until last night. :lol:

I got a little emotional last night also, while I was writing about these two elderly women. Those that have elderly mothers will understand.

As far as wanting a picture of me kissing the ground in Paphos, you have just pushed your luck.

I don't know what the people were thinking, seeing me on my knees and hands kissing the ground. I'm sure someone must have thought to themselves, " what the hell is that idiot doing facing the wrong way, because MECCA is in the other direction". :lol: :lol: :lol:

I still have dirt in my mouth my friend. :lol:

We can go to Cyprus together if you want. I really did learn my way around.
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Postby iceman » Fri May 04, 2007 8:27 pm

Kikapu wrote:
iceman wrote:
Kikapu wrote:What the VP's and Zan's are upset about, is not the fact it is one sided story ( actually an experience in the South), which is not a story with anything political, it puts them to shame, on how they can't lie about what will happen to the TC's, if they lived with the GC's.


If you think that by spending two weeks on holiday down south & knocking of TC's at every oportunity you have proven to anyone,nothing will happen to TC's if we lived under GC administration you are fooling yourself...I would have thought you had more intelligence!!!
Your experience is no different than a "summer love" or "holiday fling" where reality hits the day holiday ends..


Who is knocking any TC down. You had the Partitionist argue my experience in the South as being one sided. If I travelled to the North, it still would have been one sided. How can any experience in anything be otherwise. I was not writing a book on the Cyprus issues, for needing information from both sides, as not to be one sided.. That's the only thing I wrote about, my experience as a traveller or did you and others read something else, that I wrote, regarding putting the TC's down. Each page is numbered, so please, give me a page, where I said anything against the TC's. The Partitionist don't even believe what I wrote, to be true. So I guess they believe, it is not possible for a TC, to be well treated in the South. I would encourage you to go also, and tell us, how it was for you, because I'm only speaking for myself, that's all.



You repeadetly wrote that everytime you met someone you had to tell them your life story before they could accept you..
I wonder what you told them...let me guess..
You told them you are a TC that has been away for 40 years,(in other words dont blame me for what went on while i was away) :wink: you also told them you dont approve the Turkish "invasion" (by the way no TC uses the word "invasion" another brownie point for you there) :wink: you also told them you dont like the ugly grafitti on the mountains...and that you want all the refugees to go back to their homes and the big bad Turkish army to go home..by this time they are so fond of you they would even go and find baklava for you at midnight..

I dont need encouragment from you or anyone to go to south,unlike many hardliners on the forum who refuse to come to the north,i do that trip 3-4 times every week & i know the treatment i get..I will be the judge of that not you who has spent only two weeks PAID holiday with them in the last 40 years...
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 04, 2007 8:55 pm

turkish_cypriot wrote:Everyones allowed their say, those who don't like it should leave the forum themselves. :evil:

Sorry but I have to be honest...

I agree with VP and zan! I appreciate and have some what enjoyed reading Kikapus story but I also find it biased. It seems Kikapu has a habit of generalising everyone, like comparing his cousins views to every other Turkish Cypriot and generalising all GCs as angels from a 2 week holiday. You generalised all the TCs in the South as good people who get on with the GCs and generalised the TCs in the North as partitionists and criminals who are just after land. Why didn't he mention the Greek flags all over Cyprus instead of nit picking on everything bad he could find about Turkish people?

Kikapu blatantly went there with an agenda, I would like Kikapu to go live over there before being so sure and writing such a "report". I don't mind his story and understand the point he's trying to make, but I've absolutely cringed at his determination to prove himself right by any means possible. I appreciate his point of view but NOT the way in which he so confidently (and naively) come to a conclusion out of a 2 week holiday after being away for decades. Certain parts of this story were a bit toooo predictable and some parts appear soooo "manufactured".

Sorry mate but I don't know how you can write these things with such certainty from a poxy 2 week holiday. You're entitled your say without people jumping down your throat I agree, but at least do it in a professional level and not write as though you are so sure you are right when you've been away for SO long and not even been to the North to see or speak to the people properly. You went completely OTT in your quest to shut VP and zan up! So much that it has become rather transparent. :lol:

Still this has turned into a phenomenal thread guys! :lol: Well done to all those involved :lol:


Hello T_C,

You are one of my favourite members here, and I take your critisisms of my report, or parts of it, willingly.

I'm glad you mentioned the presence of Greek Flags. When we first arrived in Larnaca, they seem to be everywhere. They actually were not, but the appearance was very evident. In all honesty, I did not like it, and that also added further pressure on me, feeling out of place a little. But what countered the Greek Flags, were the presence of Cypriot Flags. There were far more Cypriot Flags, than any other Flags. But as we travelled through out the country, they seem to be less and less, except for Nicosia. I don't think I saw a Greek Flag on a boat or a building, that did not also have the Cypriot Flag. On the boat trip that I took, the "Fantasy", had only the Cypriot Flag.

Now let me ask you a question. Are you happy with the 2 huge Flags on the mountain, because I was not. And if I came to the North, and did not see any Cypriot Flags, I would have been really pissed off. Are there any Cypriot flags by the way, in the North.?? So, say what you want about the Greek flags being there, and I would agree with you, that it was not "my cup of tea", but at least, large majority of the Flags flown in the RoC, were in fact, the Cypriot Flags.

On my cousins story. The husband was a complete Partitionist and bragged about his family's gains of Greek Land, while we were eating in a GC restaurant. I was totally uncomfortable with the whole situation, and when the Partitionist on the Forum give their reasons why they want a Partition, they never mention the land -grab aspect of their reasons. At least the cousin's husband was honest. I only call those who want to cash in on GC lands criminals at the expense of destroying this small islands future. I do not call TC's in General, as criminals, even if it comes across that way, when it is written.

I was not here to solve the Cyprus problem. I'm not even saying, that I have proved to everyone, that everything is just fine between the two communities. What I did prove to myself, was not to have fears in the future, no matter what the Partitionist may say, if I wanted to come and visit the South again. This is still my country after all, and not a foreign place, like VP always likes to call it. We drove 1556 Kilometers and tried to meet with who ever we had a chance to talk with. I did not spend one minute on any deck chairs on the beach or by the swimming pool. I wanted to go and see, as much as possible, and we did.

I had a small list of things to talk about in my report, but forgot to look at it, which includes other things, such as animals (cats and dogs), Turkish-Greek TV and Radio shows and Music, and English cooked style vegetables, and the absence of "drop dead gorgeous Russian Girls" that everyone is talking about on the Forum. Where the hell were they.

Perhaps Lana was out of town, on one of her business trips. :lol:
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Postby Piratis » Fri May 04, 2007 9:07 pm

You told them you are a TC that has been away for 40 years,(in other words dont blame me for what went on while i was away) Wink you also told them you dont approve the Turkish "invasion" (by the way no TC uses the word "invasion" another brownie point for you there) Wink you also told them you dont like the ugly grafitti on the mountains...and that you want all the refugees to go back to their homes and the big bad Turkish army to go home..by this time they are so fond of you they would even go and find baklava for you at midnight..


So in other words he showed some respect, and he got respect in return.

If you are asking if he would get the same kind of treatment if he was going around saying that he supports the human rights violations of people, the stealing of their land and the illegalities against them, then probably you are right, he wouldn't. You give respect, you get respect. If you give disrespect, then disrespect is what you will get in return.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 04, 2007 9:26 pm

iceman wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
iceman wrote:
Kikapu wrote:What the VP's and Zan's are upset about, is not the fact it is one sided story ( actually an experience in the South), which is not a story with anything political, it puts them to shame, on how they can't lie about what will happen to the TC's, if they lived with the GC's.


If you think that by spending two weeks on holiday down south & knocking of TC's at every oportunity you have proven to anyone,nothing will happen to TC's if we lived under GC administration you are fooling yourself...I would have thought you had more intelligence!!!
Your experience is no different than a "summer love" or "holiday fling" where reality hits the day holiday ends..


Who is knocking any TC down. You had the Partitionist argue my experience in the South as being one sided. If I travelled to the North, it still would have been one sided. How can any experience in anything be otherwise. I was not writing a book on the Cyprus issues, for needing information from both sides, as not to be one sided.. That's the only thing I wrote about, my experience as a traveller or did you and others read something else, that I wrote, regarding putting the TC's down. Each page is numbered, so please, give me a page, where I said anything against the TC's. The Partitionist don't even believe what I wrote, to be true. So I guess they believe, it is not possible for a TC, to be well treated in the South. I would encourage you to go also, and tell us, how it was for you, because I'm only speaking for myself, that's all.



You repeadetly wrote that everytime you met someone you had to tell them your life story before they could accept you..
I wonder what you told them...let me guess..
You told them you are a TC that has been away for 40 years,(in other words dont blame me for what went on while i was away) :wink: you also told them you dont approve the Turkish "invasion" (by the way no TC uses the word "invasion" another brownie point for you there) :wink: you also told them you dont like the ugly grafitti on the mountains...and that you want all the refugees to go back to their homes and the big bad Turkish army to go home..by this time they are so fond of you they would even go and find baklava for you at midnight..

I dont need encouragment from you or anyone to go to south,unlike many hardliners on the forum who refuse to come to the north,i do that trip 3-4 times every week & i know the treatment i get..I will be the judge of that not you who has spent only two weeks PAID holiday with them in the last 40 years...


Are you quite finished, or you're just taking a break. I only talked about my self, when I was Spoken in Greek, which i do not understand. When I was asked " are you not a Cypriot", then I would say "yes I'm, but have been gone since 1964, during the war, and this was the first time, I'm coming back to Cyprus. At times, I was asked if I lived in the North, and I would say the truth, and say NO. It was with "Demi" I spoke the most with, about an hour, which we covered almost everything. The "graffiti" is my own comments to my self. When writing in this forum, I have almost always referred to it as intervention/ invasion, because one fooled the other. I know you don't want to get your butt kicked in the North by saying invasion and occupation since 1974, but you are kidding yourself, if you think other wise. So no, the baklava was not on the house either. It cost me £3.50. I guess personal delivery costs more. And the free meal on the boat was already agreed to, in the first 10 minutes, and the same was offered to others also.

Yes, my vacation was PAID for, by myself and by my girlfriend. If you know where I can get a free one, please let me know.

I can only assume, that you work in the South. I could tell you of course, if they treat you so badly, why do you go there. But it is not my place to tell someone, how and where to earn their living. But with the occupation and displacement of people, can you understand why they are pissed, and with that huge flag in their face. It was very insulting to me, and I'm a TC. How dare they, take such 15th Century mentality action like that. You should be fighting to bring those flags down, but of course you won't and can't, because you are also under occupation. Do you at least see the point I'm trying to make to you "iceman". I don't take pleasure fighting with anyone, least of all with the TC's, but arrogant and aggressive people, I have no time for.

I respected everyone, and got respect back in Cyprus. I don't know you from Adam, but you sound more or less like VP and Zan, that you don't want to be with the GC's, only as neighbours, living in your own "country" and them in theirs. I believe, once all peoples rights and freedom of movement is restored, you won't even notice who the person next to you is, as the case is, in almost in other multicultural countries.
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Postby Kifeas » Fri May 04, 2007 9:40 pm

iceman wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
iceman wrote:
Kikapu wrote:What the VP's and Zan's are upset about, is not the fact it is one sided story ( actually an experience in the South), which is not a story with anything political, it puts them to shame, on how they can't lie about what will happen to the TC's, if they lived with the GC's.


If you think that by spending two weeks on holiday down south & knocking of TC's at every oportunity you have proven to anyone,nothing will happen to TC's if we lived under GC administration you are fooling yourself...I would have thought you had more intelligence!!!
Your experience is no different than a "summer love" or "holiday fling" where reality hits the day holiday ends..


Who is knocking any TC down. You had the Partitionist argue my experience in the South as being one sided. If I travelled to the North, it still would have been one sided. How can any experience in anything be otherwise. I was not writing a book on the Cyprus issues, for needing information from both sides, as not to be one sided.. That's the only thing I wrote about, my experience as a traveller or did you and others read something else, that I wrote, regarding putting the TC's down. Each page is numbered, so please, give me a page, where I said anything against the TC's. The Partitionist don't even believe what I wrote, to be true. So I guess they believe, it is not possible for a TC, to be well treated in the South. I would encourage you to go also, and tell us, how it was for you, because I'm only speaking for myself, that's all.



You repeadetly wrote that everytime you met someone you had to tell them your life story before they could accept you..
I wonder what you told them...let me guess..
You told them you are a TC that has been away for 40 years,(in other words dont blame me for what went on while i was away) :wink: you also told them you dont approve the Turkish "invasion" (by the way no TC uses the word "invasion" another brownie point for you there) :wink: you also told them you dont like the ugly grafitti on the mountains...and that you want all the refugees to go back to their homes and the big bad Turkish army to go home..by this time they are so fond of you they would even go and find baklava for you at midnight..

I dont need encouragment from you or anyone to go to south,unlike many hardliners on the forum who refuse to come to the north,i do that trip 3-4 times every week & i know the treatment i get..I will be the judge of that not you who has spent only two weeks PAID holiday with them in the last 40 years...


Iceman, if they treat you so badly when you cross south, as you make it sound, why do you feel the need to cross 3-4 times a week, as you said! I can understand that you might for whatever reasons be obliged to cross south occasionally, but 3-4 times a week? What for, if you have to undergo such a bad treatment?

Furthermore, because of this bad treatment and for whatever other reasons, I assume you do not want a re-unifying solution but would rather want to have a final partition. If this is the case, why don’t you ask your “motherland” and your leadership to stop claiming that they want re-unification, and instead to propose final and formal partition on the basis of your side turning back the excessive territory that it currently occupies, and stay only in the 18% of the territory which is your share as a percentage of the total people of Cyprus? Why doesn’t your side propose the above arrangement?
Last edited by Kifeas on Fri May 04, 2007 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 04, 2007 9:43 pm

Hello iceman,

I appreciate that you are fairly new on the forum, but I did write about by past, last year, so here is the link for you to read. When I talk about my life, this is what I'm talking about.......... June 28th

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=10


Let me know what you think afterwards.


Thanks.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 04, 2007 10:10 pm

mem101 wrote:Kikapu,
My dad is in his late 50s, he was born in Cyprus, a TC and lived there until the late 1960s. In the past few years, he and my mother have visited the TRNC several times for weeks at a time and he has never had any trouble whatsoever with military service, getting in and out of the country or anything at all for that matter.

All I'm saying is, next time you go to Cyprus you should more seriously consider crossing the Green Line or just flying to Ercan via Turkey.


I'm very happy to hear, that your family has been going to Cyprus, without problems. I have stated the same, from what Ive heard from others, but same time, heard the contrary. That has been my whole problem with the "TRNC", is that, there does not seem to be "one law". I got different stories from different "TRNC" agencies.

It's encouraging all the same...thanks.
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Postby iceman » Fri May 04, 2007 10:55 pm

Kikapu wrote:Hello iceman,

I appreciate that you are fairly new on the forum, but I did write about by past, last year, so here is the link for you to read. When I talk about my life, this is what I'm talking about.......... June 28th

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=10


Let me know what you think afterwards.


Thanks.



Indeed you are right i am fairly new to the forum and i had not read the thread you provided..
I must say you have a natural gift with words..Having read your memories of the short period you lived in Cyprus i am even more puzzled as to why you feel so resentful to your own kind.......considering your bitter past experience...
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