Does that include the six different families that told my sister’s friend that they used to own the house she is living in.
Seriously though. All this number crunching is a load of boll**ks because there are so many variations that I have read from many sources. I was just amusing my self because Piratis is on the move thinking that any of his bullshit is getting through to anyone but his supporters. Look at the realities of today and you will see many more TCs moving back home every day and I would too if my children were not well placed in their schools. This time the ones that are moving there are not coming back. The numbers, if they are the party line of the RoC and not just a misplaced figment of Piratis' imagination, are not acceptable to us and the Annan plan and therefore the EU saw that. These things do not just appear out of thin air. Of course they are not acceptable to a GC nation that wants to control us and the island. We will never lay down and just have our bellies tickled and Turkeys roots are growing deeper and deeper into the ground day by day. This is a fight that the Greeks will never win and the Annan plan would have been the best thing that could have happened if only the RoC wanted to get along with all of us. They are leading the refugees up the garden path and they are now flobbing them off with our property because they can see that they have lost. Damage limitation for a man that cocked it up even more than his predecessors.
Night all.
The lame excuses of Turkey and TCs uncovered
by Piratis » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:08 am
Here we go with the "GC domination" again. Did you forget here we are discussing about partition where TCs would have a separate 18% of land without any GCs?
The numbers are very clear, TCs are the 18%. Even your friends in the USA do not dispute this. So surely you demand more because thats all you ever learned, how to grab land. What you didn't learn is how to progress. Thats why Turkey is a 3rd world country and you a bunch of greedy losers.
The numbers are very clear, TCs are the 18%. Even your friends in the USA do not dispute this. So surely you demand more because thats all you ever learned, how to grab land. What you didn't learn is how to progress. Thats why Turkey is a 3rd world country and you a bunch of greedy losers.
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by T_C » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:46 am
How do you know it's lies? Gosh man you seriously got some issues, like you know whos telling the truth and who isn't. Anyone who doesn't agree with you (or rather anyone who isn't GC) is a liar. How GC of you 
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by the_snake_and_the_crane » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:59 am
How do you know it's lies? Gosh man you seriously got some issues, like you know whos telling the truth and who isn't. Anyone who doesn't agree with you (or rather anyone who isn't GC) is a liar. How GC of you
This is Zan we are talking about - the Dr Evil of this website who is a proficient lier and an active member of ATCA. I know he may be Turkish Cypriot but if you want to act the fool and believe what he says then go 'head!
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by Murataga » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:55 am
@Piratis-
Your problem is that you are blinded by your hatred and can not understand people. Your mind seems to work one way: only outward for talking; the part for listening and understanding is shut down. This post is the official evidence for it.
Firstly, I do not believe GCs are evil as you imply. On the other hand you are a “Turk hater” by your own confession. Here are just a few of your despicable comments about my people, including the very recent one made in your recent post:
I have stopped long ago counting the number of times you have named my people and ancestors as uncivilized, barbaric, thief and etc. How do you expect any Turk to engage in a reasonable discussion with you on the Cyprus conflict when you keep provoking them by cussing at their race? On the other hand, I, in all my criticism towards the GCs in the discussion of the Cyprus conflict, try to direct my comments towards their administration and express my disappointment to your posts via separating you from the GCs. Not because your people are angels without wings or blameless in the Cyprus conflict, but beacuse I believe conflicts can be resolved through mutual respect and communication. We are a hand full of TCs that are practically guests in this forum established and dominated by GCs. We are here because we respect GCs and believe in communicating with them. You and all concerned should understand this very clearly and more than welcome to do a search on my name on the forum to better understand what I am saying.
Secondly, the intension of my posts can be classified under three categories:
(1) To show to the GCs that there is another side to the Cyprus conflict that they haven’t been properly explained.
(2) To highlight that TCs and GCs can live as each other’s friends, colleagues, partners but not as each other’s administrators or governors. We have failed at this in the past, we do not want it in the present, and any solution forcing us into it in the future will result in suffering of both sides in catastrophic proportions.
(3) To show that we want unification aswell, but also to underline that the conditions of that unification for us can not be by becoming a minority under a GC dominated administration, who to this very day declare proudly that they are in the business of Hellenizing Cyprus. I respect that Hellenism is the very right and decision of the GCs, but you need to accept that it is our decision and right to refuse and resist it. We want a unification that recognizes that there are two communities in Cyprus that want to cooperate for Cyprus, but want to live in their own space and administration in which they are allowed to make their own policies. There is nothing illegal, unethical, unacceptable or undemocratic about this.
(4) To hear the concerns and different opinions of GCs in the Cyprus conflict.
Look at U.K. and U.S. These people had/have so much in common yet they slaughtered each other like animals over the issue of sovereignty. Ever since they settled on their differences and separated their administrations, they became the longest and strongest alliance in the world. We can cooperate, we can collaborate, we can become allies for Cyprus. But we have to have the right to for our own independence and liberty. This is absolutely a must.
Fourthly, I have time and time presented my solution to the Cyprus conflict. Peace can be achieved in Cyprus only under the establishment of a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation where neither of the communities are allowed explicitly or implicitly their extend their will or sovereignty over the other. I did not make this solution up in my spare time. This is the solution offered by the U.N. that was based on a wide array of concerns of both sides and the circumstances of Cyprus. Undoubtabely, it requires compromise on both sides.
As far as your proposals on the land issue is concerned …. An overly simplistic approach for partitioning the land based on population ratio can not be accepted. Not because we are “land grabbers” as you wish to label us all the time, but because it is not necessarily fair. There are additional criteria that have to be addressed. For example, Egypt is an area of little over than 1 million square kilometers. However, the majority of its population is condensed in an area of 40000 square kilometers (4% of the land) along the Nile river since this is the only arable agricultural part of the country. If Cypriots were living in Egypt, it would not make any sense for me to offer you 96% of the land let alone 82% if that area was the desert. This phenomenon extens mainly to parameters of strategic concerns, natural resources and economic constraints in the case of Cyprus.
Before I finish… I have given a respectable and reasonable answer to your post despite the insult you extended by calling my people to be “uncivilized”. If you are going to respond to this post with the same courtesy and dignity that I am extending you right now, the floor is your’s and I am listening with my heart and mind open. However, if you persist with the same disrespectful and offensive attitude, I will not even bother with an answer.
I have said many times that TCs and Turkey give nothing more than lame excuses in an effort to gain on our loss using brute military power.
This minority of 18% illegally keeps 37% of our country under occupation and they even declared this part of Republic of Cyprus as an independent state, which is of course illegal and not recognized by anybody except Turkey.
They say that a form of partition that would separate the two communities in an apartheid way is necessary by recycling over and over their distorted version of a past decade, in an attempt to prove that GCs are the evils that now deserve to be punished by having their land stolen and their human and democratic rights violated, while the TCs are the innocent victims that need to be protected from the "evil" GCs.
Then the question comes (in other recent threads): Would you (TCs) accept partition with a proportional (based on population) split of 18% for TCs and 82% for GCs?
Their answer is NO. But why?
They demanded partition since the 50s, and now they claim there is a separate state in the north called "trnc". It is more than obvious that partition is what they want.
They say that with a true unification the GCs would rule over them, but they want to rule themselves. With an 18%-82% split they would.
They say that they can not live together with GCs again because GCs are evil and can not be trusted. With 18%-82% split they wouldn't have to.
They say they don't want to be a minority. In their new country of 18% of Cyprus they wouldn't be.
Basically ALL of their "concerns" would be satisfied with an 18%-82% partition.
So why they do not accept even that? The answer is simple: Because what they want is to steal as much of our land as possible. Everything else is just lame excuses to achieve this aim and noting more. They believe that the big guns of Turkey can help them to steal from us much more land, and thats what they are trying to do.
Sorry that I refer to TCs and Turks in general. Certainly among them there are decent people. Unfortunately their majority still carries the uncivilized instincts of their ancestors and all they care about is how much land they will grab from the ones they invade.
How about it Zan and Murataga? Why you do not even accept an 18%-82% split so you can be safe separated from the "evil" GCs, with recognition, direct trades, flights etc? Because you believe the big guns of Turkey can help you to steal more land from us, isn't it? There is no reason to try to deny it.
Your problem is that you are blinded by your hatred and can not understand people. Your mind seems to work one way: only outward for talking; the part for listening and understanding is shut down. This post is the official evidence for it.
Firstly, I do not believe GCs are evil as you imply. On the other hand you are a “Turk hater” by your own confession. Here are just a few of your despicable comments about my people, including the very recent one made in your recent post:
“… majority still carries the uncivilized instincts of their ancestors …”
For Turks bloodthirsty barbarians that butchered other nations to steal their lands
Unfortunately the Turks have not improved much since the middle ages
The solution for Cyprus can be either if Turks finally get civilized
The Turks are trying to wipe us out since they set their foot in Cyprus
If Turks were not what they are, and if the only thing that they knew was not killing and stealing the land of others....
What is pathetic is when the Turks, the worst kind of serial killers...
The brutality of Turks is well known to everybody in the region
I have stopped long ago counting the number of times you have named my people and ancestors as uncivilized, barbaric, thief and etc. How do you expect any Turk to engage in a reasonable discussion with you on the Cyprus conflict when you keep provoking them by cussing at their race? On the other hand, I, in all my criticism towards the GCs in the discussion of the Cyprus conflict, try to direct my comments towards their administration and express my disappointment to your posts via separating you from the GCs. Not because your people are angels without wings or blameless in the Cyprus conflict, but beacuse I believe conflicts can be resolved through mutual respect and communication. We are a hand full of TCs that are practically guests in this forum established and dominated by GCs. We are here because we respect GCs and believe in communicating with them. You and all concerned should understand this very clearly and more than welcome to do a search on my name on the forum to better understand what I am saying.
Secondly, the intension of my posts can be classified under three categories:
(1) To show to the GCs that there is another side to the Cyprus conflict that they haven’t been properly explained.
(2) To highlight that TCs and GCs can live as each other’s friends, colleagues, partners but not as each other’s administrators or governors. We have failed at this in the past, we do not want it in the present, and any solution forcing us into it in the future will result in suffering of both sides in catastrophic proportions.
(3) To show that we want unification aswell, but also to underline that the conditions of that unification for us can not be by becoming a minority under a GC dominated administration, who to this very day declare proudly that they are in the business of Hellenizing Cyprus. I respect that Hellenism is the very right and decision of the GCs, but you need to accept that it is our decision and right to refuse and resist it. We want a unification that recognizes that there are two communities in Cyprus that want to cooperate for Cyprus, but want to live in their own space and administration in which they are allowed to make their own policies. There is nothing illegal, unethical, unacceptable or undemocratic about this.
(4) To hear the concerns and different opinions of GCs in the Cyprus conflict.
Look at U.K. and U.S. These people had/have so much in common yet they slaughtered each other like animals over the issue of sovereignty. Ever since they settled on their differences and separated their administrations, they became the longest and strongest alliance in the world. We can cooperate, we can collaborate, we can become allies for Cyprus. But we have to have the right to for our own independence and liberty. This is absolutely a must.
Fourthly, I have time and time presented my solution to the Cyprus conflict. Peace can be achieved in Cyprus only under the establishment of a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation where neither of the communities are allowed explicitly or implicitly their extend their will or sovereignty over the other. I did not make this solution up in my spare time. This is the solution offered by the U.N. that was based on a wide array of concerns of both sides and the circumstances of Cyprus. Undoubtabely, it requires compromise on both sides.
As far as your proposals on the land issue is concerned …. An overly simplistic approach for partitioning the land based on population ratio can not be accepted. Not because we are “land grabbers” as you wish to label us all the time, but because it is not necessarily fair. There are additional criteria that have to be addressed. For example, Egypt is an area of little over than 1 million square kilometers. However, the majority of its population is condensed in an area of 40000 square kilometers (4% of the land) along the Nile river since this is the only arable agricultural part of the country. If Cypriots were living in Egypt, it would not make any sense for me to offer you 96% of the land let alone 82% if that area was the desert. This phenomenon extens mainly to parameters of strategic concerns, natural resources and economic constraints in the case of Cyprus.
Before I finish… I have given a respectable and reasonable answer to your post despite the insult you extended by calling my people to be “uncivilized”. If you are going to respond to this post with the same courtesy and dignity that I am extending you right now, the floor is your’s and I am listening with my heart and mind open. However, if you persist with the same disrespectful and offensive attitude, I will not even bother with an answer.
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by lovernomore » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:30 am
Well said Murtaga,
I work in a place where the 2 boses are GC and TC. All workers almost are GC and TC. We all day talk and joke like a family. When they talk about Cyprus problem they give impresion that this problem can be solved. When you people talk about the same problem you dont talk, you insult and provoke.
Im sorry but I have same respect for my boses and work friends, I dont think I like him more or less because he is GC or TC. But from what I see on this forum I dont beleve Cyprus problem will solve. The disrespect from Piratis, GetReal, Snake and Crane and majority of GC is disturbing. I have shown before to my friends and boses some other treads and asked them what they think and why they dont write to show there feeling on the forum but they answer me "there is no point in arguing with this people, they are nationalst and very extreem, they dont wont a solution they jsut want to go back to the old days like nothing happened"
Because I am watching from outside and can see both sides I have feeling that this problem will not solve soon. It will go on for ever. Shame really, if you all left and the TC and GC come from England, Australlia, Germany USA ect this people can solve problem and live like brothers.
I dont want to come and tell you people what to do because you are here long time, but if you show more tolerance and respect you have more chance to make progres.
I work in a place where the 2 boses are GC and TC. All workers almost are GC and TC. We all day talk and joke like a family. When they talk about Cyprus problem they give impresion that this problem can be solved. When you people talk about the same problem you dont talk, you insult and provoke.
Im sorry but I have same respect for my boses and work friends, I dont think I like him more or less because he is GC or TC. But from what I see on this forum I dont beleve Cyprus problem will solve. The disrespect from Piratis, GetReal, Snake and Crane and majority of GC is disturbing. I have shown before to my friends and boses some other treads and asked them what they think and why they dont write to show there feeling on the forum but they answer me "there is no point in arguing with this people, they are nationalst and very extreem, they dont wont a solution they jsut want to go back to the old days like nothing happened"
Because I am watching from outside and can see both sides I have feeling that this problem will not solve soon. It will go on for ever. Shame really, if you all left and the TC and GC come from England, Australlia, Germany USA ect this people can solve problem and live like brothers.
I dont want to come and tell you people what to do because you are here long time, but if you show more tolerance and respect you have more chance to make progres.
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by miltiades » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:40 am
Murataga wrote:
"""""""but beacuse I believe conflicts can be resolved through mutual respect and communication. We are a hand full of TCs that are practically guests in this forum established and dominated by GCs. We are here because we respect GCs and believe in communicating with them. You and all concerned should understand this very clearly and more than welcome to do a search on my name on the forum to better understand what I am saying."""""
Very wise words . Let me assure you that there are many Cypriots who share your commitment to the above written
principles and want nothing more than justice for all and the laying of foundations for a peaceful resolution that will ensure that the future generations will not be inflamed and driven into conflict by events , not perceived to be unjust , but seen clearly as unjust.
The overwhelming majority of Cypriots see Turkey as an invading and an occupying force , exactly the same way as the international community sees it. You are naturally concerned at derogatory comments made against Turkey which you see as your motherland. Let me however state once more my position and that of many G/Cs. Greece is not our motherland , Cyprus is. You can insult Greece as much as you like .No offence. You have to detach your self from Turkeys aprons and start thinking as a Cypriot , a T/ C of course , just as I think of myself as a G/C .
Can I also say that insulting a nation is also ignoring a nation's past history. Germany , Nazi Germany caused the death o millions. The German people faced their past . The Turkish people , the Greek people must also face their past.
"""""""but beacuse I believe conflicts can be resolved through mutual respect and communication. We are a hand full of TCs that are practically guests in this forum established and dominated by GCs. We are here because we respect GCs and believe in communicating with them. You and all concerned should understand this very clearly and more than welcome to do a search on my name on the forum to better understand what I am saying."""""
Very wise words . Let me assure you that there are many Cypriots who share your commitment to the above written
principles and want nothing more than justice for all and the laying of foundations for a peaceful resolution that will ensure that the future generations will not be inflamed and driven into conflict by events , not perceived to be unjust , but seen clearly as unjust.
The overwhelming majority of Cypriots see Turkey as an invading and an occupying force , exactly the same way as the international community sees it. You are naturally concerned at derogatory comments made against Turkey which you see as your motherland. Let me however state once more my position and that of many G/Cs. Greece is not our motherland , Cyprus is. You can insult Greece as much as you like .No offence. You have to detach your self from Turkeys aprons and start thinking as a Cypriot , a T/ C of course , just as I think of myself as a G/C .
Can I also say that insulting a nation is also ignoring a nation's past history. Germany , Nazi Germany caused the death o millions. The German people faced their past . The Turkish people , the Greek people must also face their past.
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by zan » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:47 am
Piratis wrote:Here we go with the "GC domination" again. Did you forget here we are discussing about partition where TCs would have a separate 18% of land without any GCs?
The numbers are very clear, TCs are the 18%. Even your friends in the USA do not dispute this. So surely you demand more because thats all you ever learned, how to grab land. What you didn't learn is how to progress. Thats why Turkey is a 3rd world country and you a bunch of greedy losers.
The ethnic cleansing and the displacement of tens of thousands of TCs are never allowed for in any of your equations so why the hell should we listen to a false profit such as your self. 18% is not a true figure and you know it.
Numbers are for my government of the TRNC/KKTC to discuss and not up to me. With this sort of attitude that you and yours exhibit if you want my final answer on this issue then I personally would not give you any more than the few unoccupied ghost towns that are left. That is all you deserve. The reality of today’s numbers are that we hold 37% of the island and there are 40,000 Turkish troops on the island that are protecting our rights against a criminal element in the RoC. Chew on those numbers and carry on with your intransigence and stop the dreaming.
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by zan » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:48 am
the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:Does that include the six different families that told my sister’s friend that they used to own the house she is living in.
FUCK YOUR SESAME STREET BIG-BIRD SISTERS
Im sick of hearing about them and your other lies you stupid gay HIV cunt!
Does this mean that we can not live together
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by Piratis » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:59 am
Murataga, once again you consumed most of your post in personal attacks against me, and the one and only thing you said about the topic is that TCs should have way more than what proportionately belongs to them because in Egypt, which is mostly desert, people are concentrated in the 4% of the land. Wow, great argument, why you didn't use the Moon as an example?
My personal view about the Turks is shaped by their actions. In the same way you hate us to the degree that you justify our ethnic cleansing and you say that there is nothing unethical or illegal about it(!!!), I believe I am perfectly justified to hate those that invaded my country and illegally occupy it and are doing everything they can to violate our human rights and grab as much land from us as possible. You can consume as much time arguing about my perfectly justified feelings, since you apparently have no real arguments to deny the essence of my message in this thread.
Since you want to be separated from the GCs as much as possible and you want 2 separate states with 2 separate sovereignties (which amounts to partition anyways) then why are you trying to hide your partition aim behind the "bbf" label? Because except from partition you also want an EU membership at the same time, or because you think that by labeling it "bbf" you will manage to grab more land from us? Or is it maybe because you recognize your own incompetence and you want to be able to suck money from us, which is apparently the only relationship between the two states that you wouldn't object?
The fact my friend is that even if you could have everything you demand and all your "concerns" satisfied, without GCs to "dominate" you, with your own separate space and sovereignty, with as much Turkish troops for your "protection" as you want, with as many settlers as you want etc etc, you would still reject this if the land distribution was a proportional one, since all of the above are nothing more than your lame excuses and the one and only thing you really care about is how to grab as much land from us as possible.
My personal view about the Turks is shaped by their actions. In the same way you hate us to the degree that you justify our ethnic cleansing and you say that there is nothing unethical or illegal about it(!!!), I believe I am perfectly justified to hate those that invaded my country and illegally occupy it and are doing everything they can to violate our human rights and grab as much land from us as possible. You can consume as much time arguing about my perfectly justified feelings, since you apparently have no real arguments to deny the essence of my message in this thread.
Peace can be achieved in Cyprus only under the establishment of a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation where neither of the communities are allowed explicitly or implicitly their extend their will or sovereignty over the other.
Since you want to be separated from the GCs as much as possible and you want 2 separate states with 2 separate sovereignties (which amounts to partition anyways) then why are you trying to hide your partition aim behind the "bbf" label? Because except from partition you also want an EU membership at the same time, or because you think that by labeling it "bbf" you will manage to grab more land from us? Or is it maybe because you recognize your own incompetence and you want to be able to suck money from us, which is apparently the only relationship between the two states that you wouldn't object?
The fact my friend is that even if you could have everything you demand and all your "concerns" satisfied, without GCs to "dominate" you, with your own separate space and sovereignty, with as much Turkish troops for your "protection" as you want, with as many settlers as you want etc etc, you would still reject this if the land distribution was a proportional one, since all of the above are nothing more than your lame excuses and the one and only thing you really care about is how to grab as much land from us as possible.
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