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[Lilyput]

Nothing to hide (though a compulsory universal bio-chip might take away my right to choose what I disclose and to whom) and plenty to declare!

Technology is, of itself, neither good nor bad. What matters is what we make of it. Lets see what might actually happen when governments and businesses gather and use personal information:

In the UK the 'database state' is emerging - the tendency to try to use computers to manage society by watching people. There are many interlocking government plans that do this. Together they mean officials poking into private lives more than ever before.

All the databases could be linked to, or indexed by, the National Identity Register (NIR) that is the main aim of the 'ID cards' scheme. The NIR number would be the key to an individual's life. And by "information sharing", what they tell one public servant could be passed to anyone.

The government call this: "Transformational Government" which sounds OK - until you realise that what is being transformed is not government but its power over you.

In the USA Muslim Americans have been branded as unfit for travel using no-fly lists or are otherwise subject to racial profiling, a practice that is condemned in other contexts for its manifest unfairness. The same practice has been rightly derided in the UK where Civil Rights groups have suggested that the profiling of UK asian air passengers means a new criminal offence is emerging- "travelling whilst Asian"

I can see only advantages, provided that your ID no.-related data is restricted to those who need to know.

And there's the problem - who needs to know? What should they know? What are our rights? How can we prevent those who have no right to know about us getting hold of our information? Those are not decisions I want a government to make on my behalf.

The devil, as they say, is in the detail.

[devil]

That is the whole point of my last message. There is absolutely no difference in the attribution of "need to know" whether the means of identification is a passport photo, a driving licence, an ID card #, a fingerprint or an implanted chip. The only major difference is that the risk of error is minimalised with a chip. That is why I am for it.

I was not discussing the edicts of individual governments, such as the UK or the USA: that is outside the scope of this discussion because not all governments are the same and what one does another will not do, or vice versa. What I would like to see, and the implanted chip is a means of ensuring the sanctity of "right to know". To illustrate this, let's go to my first example where you fall unconscious in Outer Mongolia. Assuming the WHO runs a secure global database of medical records, two chip readings would be required. The first would be the doctor's chip which would give him the right to access the database (scanned in on graduation) and the second would be the patient's chip which would give only that doctor the right to access that patient's medical records and his alone. He could not scan through other person's records. He could then treat you accordingly. Now let's say that when you fall unconscious, you were swimming in a lake, wearing only skimpy bathing gear. No need for the cops to spend time hunting for your identity (I don't suppose you swim with your ID card on you!); you could be dead by the time they find out who you are. Similarly, the tax man's chip gives him the "right to know" on the tax database, but not the medical one, and so on. It can mean a MUCH higher degree of security than current ID/password methods, which are transmissible and easily stolen/hacked. I can see only benefits.

[Lilyput]

I'm sorry, but the "swimming in a Lake in Outer Mongolia when the cops find me and pass my chipped data to a WHO database so the doctor can tell that I had measles as a child" arguement doesn't really sway me.

My concerns focus on the erosion of civil liberty and individual privacy and the use of technology that can accelerate that process.

You can talk about the security of the technology as a means to hold data and imagined benefits - but the reality is that your chip in the arm, linked to a centralised database will make it easier for governments (and eventually) corporations to keep tabs on individuals, tracking their movements and life details in a way that I find, at best, unsettling.

[T_C]

Lilyput I completely agree with you. People who would get chipped are absolutely insane!

There is no way on this earth anyone will ever persuade me to get some foreign material inserted in my body for the sake of "convenience" for a doctor. I don't buy their excuses.

You chip your animals so they don't get lost but NOT people. It's all about control.

[andri_cy]

I fingerprinted my daughter just in case something happens and we need identifying tools. e.g. sometimes kids get abducted and turn up years later and you need to know if it is them. I know it sounds stretched but stuff like that happens. Fingerprints are nothing to worry about unless you are a criminal. I would not hesitate to do it and I do not see anything wrong with it.

[GorillaGal]

Nikki you have to remember that this is the beginning of this "big brother" era. We don't know to what degree this kind of technology will evolve and be used for in the future.

For instance watch this video...I'd like to know peoples opinions on this actually.

you and your videos, T-C! STAY AWAY from YouTube, and go to the doctor. see if you can get a prescription for Zoloft, and keep taking it, every day. i admire your thirst for knowledge, but sometimes you have to research things otehr than conspiracy theories. there is a whole world out there, go find the good side of it!

[devil]

I'm sorry, but the "swimming in a Lake in Outer Mongolia when the cops find me and pass my chipped data to a WHO database so the doctor can tell that I had measles as a child" arguement doesn't really sway me.

My concerns focus on the erosion of civil liberty and individual privacy and the use of technology that can accelerate that process.

You can talk about the security of the technology as a means to hold data and imagined benefits - but the reality is that your chip in the arm, linked to a centralised database will make it easier for governments (and eventually) corporations to keep tabs on individuals, tracking their movements and life details in a way that I find, at best, unsettling.

OK, you may not be persuaded but you are making a big mistake with your suppositions. It is a fallacy to think all your data will be on one big centralised database. That would be absolutely impossible, even in a small country like this one. It will be on tens of different databases, e.g., one for medical records, one for tax records, one for criminal records, one for social security records and so on, just like it already is. It will also be impossible for the databases to swap information, just like it already is. Why? Because the format of each one will be different to suit its individual purpose. In any case, the existing databases already not only have different formats, but they have different software. You cannot exchange info easily between an Access and a SQL database, can you? These databases will have only two things in common: your chip number and your name, not even, necessarily, your address unless it is essential information for the purpose that the database will serve. All these databases already exist and you are inscribed on them: the only difference the chip will make is higher security and rapid searchability.

I was in a bank the other day and had a lapse of memory for my a/c number. I gave the teller my name: it took her about 5 minutes to find the details of my account because she had to go to the manager's office because her terminal was not authorised for client search. Would it not have been much easier to have stretched out my arm and had it scanned? Or, more likely, the number would have been scanned in automatically as soon as I went through the door so that the teller would have my account details on her terminal as soon as it was my turn.

[T_C]

you and your videos, T-C! STAY AWAY from YouTube, and go to the doctor. see if you can get a prescription for Zoloft, and keep taking it, every day. i admire your thirst for knowledge, but sometimes you have to research things otehr than conspiracy theories. there is a whole world out there, go find the good side of it!

Well I like to learn GG. It's not just conspiracy theories I'm interested in but they're the only ones I think are worth bringing to peoples attentions.

[Get Real!]

you and your videos, T-C! STAY AWAY from YouTube, and go to the doctor. see if you can get a prescription for Zoloft, and keep taking it, every day. i admire your thirst for knowledge, but sometimes you have to research things otehr than conspiracy theories. there is a whole world out there, go find the good side of it!

Well I like to learn GG. It's not just conspiracy theories I'm interested in but they're the only ones I think are worth bringing to peoples attentions.

Tell them about your other newfound hobby T_C... you know about ripping old fuzzy pictures off websites and then adding your own captions under them like "Makarios is blessing a hand-grenade!"!!!