Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Actually zan, in another thread I proved that what you are saying now are cheap excuses since you admitted you wouldn't even accept an 18%-82% partition where you wouldn't have the "evil" GCs to oppress you and all the other lame excuses you give, but instead you want to continue with your illegalities and crimes in an effort to gain as much land on our loss as possible.

Your lame excuses are uncovered and fully exposed.

[zan]

Actually zan, in another thread I proved that what you are saying now are cheap excuses since you admitted you wouldn't even accept an 18%-82% partition where you wouldn't have the "evil" GCs to oppress you and all the other lame excuses you give, but instead you want to continue with your illegalities and crimes in an effort to gain as much land on our loss as possible.

Your lame excuses are uncovered and fully exposed.

Piratis have you gone mad or are you not keeping up with your post its around your operation room. You have proved nothing because what has been said recently we have been saying since year dot. What you constantly try to avoid though is the fact that we say " in its present state" the RoC is not acceptable. Your tactics are perfectly clear to all and if you are happy that a few people take you seriously then that is all that matters. It is important that you feel loved.

[Piratis]

Don't worry dear Zan, you have made it perfectly clear that only a form of partition where TCs and GCs would live separately, in two separate states, with 2 separate sovereignties and whatever else partition entails is the only thing that is acceptable for you.

What is now uncovered and exposed are your excuses for demanding all that. You gave excuses about evil GCs that want to dominate you and make the whole Cyprus a hellenic state and a ton of other lame excuses for your partition demand.

However when the question came if you would accept partition based on the proportional 18%-82% you rejected it, even if that would mean no GCs to "dominate" you and the other crap you were talking about, proving that the one and only thing you care about is how to steal as much land from us as possible, and nothing else.

What is funny, is that at times you accused us of caring only for land because we want our own land to be returned to us, and you said that other things, like peace, are most important. So what happened now Zan, why don't you accept peace, that would satisfy all your demands and "concerns" and would end everything you ever complaint about (isolation etc) and you prefer war instead of peace, so you can keep as much of our homes and properties under your illegal occupation?

This is a crystal clear proof that the one and only thing you care about is how to steal from us as much land as the Turkish tanks can get, while everything else is just lame excuses and nothing more.

[free_cyprus]

sooo all this talk and nothing has been resolved and nothing will get resolved.......................... how can anything get resolved when most of the cypriots dont even know whats happened to them..................this problem is not new this partition is not new this is from the fifties................the 1959 zurich agreement devided the island up into three and you people were not even aware of it......................... thats why i mput zurich agreement as a thread i thought some of you might have the brains to come along and talk about it ...........................but even that was not to be ..............................the problem with this forum is everybody blames others....... instead of standing back and looking at the whole situation the whole pictures..................many of you in here complained by unjust acts regarding out own people in cyprus this is true...................................but i dont want to go into all that all i have to say about that is these crimes and acts were not the result of few vigilantes these crimes and acts were the result of direct orders

[GreekForumer]

I voted for an 82-18 Partition but IF AND ONLY IF the following 4 conditions are met.

1. 60% of Turkey's Hatay province must be returned to the descendants of those Greeks, Armenians, Arabs etc whom it was disgustingly stolen from back in 1939.

(Read some contemporary Time magazine excerpts in my Republic of Hatay thread. Turkish threats of violence, Turkish election cheating, Turkey urinating on the wishes of the non Turks (60%) who did not want to be annexed, Turks celebrating annexation for 3 days while thousands of non-Turks abandon Hatay and leave much property behind. )

2. Turkey must NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER join the EU.

3. TCs can NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER join Turkey.

4. Important historical sites (Salamis) or property (monasteries, mosques) to be owned by their respective communities and these properties can never be the subject of Government appropriation.

Sounds fair to me.

[GreekForumer]

On second thoughts, I'm not really fussed about no. 3 either way!

[free_cyprus]

GreekForumer
what are you fused about sounds like your argument is with turkey and not cypriots

[T_C]

I voted for an 82-18 Partition but IF AND ONLY IF the following 4 conditions are met.

1. 60% of Turkey's Hatay province must be returned to the descendants of those Greeks, Armenians, Arabs etc whom it was disgustingly stolen from back in 1939.

(Read some contemporary Time magazine excerpts in my Republic of Hatay thread. Turkish threats of violence, Turkish election cheating, Turkey urinating on the wishes of the non Turks (60%) who did not want to be annexed, Turks celebrating annexation for 3 days while thousands of non-Turks abandon Hatay and leave much property behind. )

2. Turkey must NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER join the EU.

3. TCs can NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER join Turkey.

4. Important historical sites (Salamis) or property (monasteries, mosques) to be owned by their respective communities and these properties can never be the subject of Government appropriation.

Sounds fair to me.

............

[lupusdiavoli]

Hi again Babaniot,

I totally agree that the enosis aspiration was legitimate. At the same time I consider legitimate the efforts of the rest interested parties to avert this option. The issue regarding the responsibilities is vast and complex. Unless someone really cares as you said at some point “to observe and analyse scientifically” in every other case falls within the usual circle of arguments. Nevertheless I could add except the local errors the ongoing weakness of the Greece to support such “fights”. Even Crete which I mentioned before reached the “dream” on its own and because of that Venizelos figure.

I see your argument as a whole but I have to counterclaim that even without the armed struggle and the following events Turkey would find one or another the way to step on the island.

I think our main difference for the moment is the way we perceive geo-strategy. In my eyes the motivating cause remains always the same and the rest are historic details. Nationalism, armed struggle or else since you have geo-strategic reasons to do something, provided that you are coherent, you will find the manner to attempt your target.

Speaking of coherence I can’t say that is one of the GC virtues. Except, to play the words, of the “populist fashion that gains sympathy”. I refer to the same with regards to the referendum of April 2004.

People u know always find reasons to believe that they have “all justice on their side”.
I agree that the starting point for any scientific analysis is to get rid of all those elements affecting solid judgment, nationalism, ethics and the same.

I enjoy your following comments. You have in mind I believe Macarios. Well he could not see far anyway. Another study case for failure and someone wishes to follow his bright example once again. All own against the world.

You do have half of Cyprus not because of luck but because the rest half of the island serves quite well the geo-strategic desires of Turkey. In terms of a possible war the island could only resist for some days. I am not cynical just realist having in mind the numbers and the situation on the ground.

It is not an alternative of enosis I had in mind. I simply wanted to show that the structure of thought follows quite the same path. The equation structurally speaking is the same. Even you cannot avoid speaking for the need to dream. The loading is still around. It is hard to avoid.

But there are dreams and dreams. For example that dream of the original enosis had believers ready to sacrifice their lives for. How many believers the “new version” of dream can lead to death?

The momentum was there and is lost. A plan –specially the third version- much satisfying Turkey on a geo-strategic version and unifying some sort the island under the EU umbrella.

Most of the GC cannot accept defeat. They breath this misinterpreted theory of humans rights as if this is enough to give them back what they lost on the battlefield. They tend to ignore the agreements signed back on 77-78. Their brilliant leader Macarios was the one who really set up the ground for what followed.

The “conventional wisdom now may change dramatically in the bleep of an eye”? You need a shock for this. Another defeat may be. The last century taught nothing most of the GC. The critical momentum was there. The hard reality will emerge when Turkey will fully realize that there is no hope of entering EU. Alongside with Kosovo developments which much affect as an example of the same Cyprus and Greece will have to deal with a more aggressive –for her own reasons- Turkey.

I am sure those voting against the Anan plan will find this satisfactory in the sense that will legitimate their attitude. What they are missing now and tomorrow is that the half of the island is “occupied”. But who cares, they built their carriers on this

[shahmaran]

I voted for an 82-18 Partition but IF AND ONLY IF the following 4 conditions are met.

1. 60% of Turkey's Hatay province must be returned to the descendants of those Greeks, Armenians, Arabs etc whom it was disgustingly stolen from back in 1939.

(Read some contemporary Time magazine excerpts in my Republic of Hatay thread. Turkish threats of violence, Turkish election cheating, Turkey urinating on the wishes of the non Turks (60%) who did not want to be annexed, Turks celebrating annexation for 3 days while thousands of non-Turks abandon Hatay and leave much property behind. )

2. Turkey must NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER join the EU.

3. TCs can NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER join Turkey.

4. Important historical sites (Salamis) or property (monasteries, mosques) to be owned by their respective communities and these properties can never be the subject of Government appropriation.

Sounds fair to me.

Man give it up with you obsessive and sad attempt to make a greater point through the little facts you have found about Hatay, no one gives a shit and even if they did it will never EVER work, try blaming some other people of that time who were better at grabbing lands than Turkey was, and who are still the main cause of the violence we see today!

Plus what would you have said today, if the Greeks and the Brits had won the war and god knows what would have happened to the Turks, but either way, would you have come here to talk about the unfairness done to them by the imperialist arseholes?

I say not a chance, because you are nothing but a bloody inconsistent propagandist prick!