Cyprus-Forum.com

[Damsi]

"Papadopoulos has not been in Greece during the period on which Mr. Alkan Chaglar claims in his article."



I don't know about the terms used but I do know that papadopoulos was in Athens on July 10 and 11 because he went there immediately after the July 8 agreement was signed. So Alkan Chaglar was a few days out, big deal.

[cypezokyli]

the term "Greek Hellenism" not only is not used by Papadopoulos (he may have used the term "Cypriot Hellenism,") but it is also meaningless!

true !!!!


i didnot notice it before

[Kifeas]

"Papadopoulos has not been in Greece during the period on which Mr. Alkan Chaglar claims in his article."



I don't know about the terms used but I do know that papadopoulos was in Athens on July 10 and 11 because he went there immediately after the July 8 agreement was signed. So Alkan Chaglar was a few days out, big deal.

I am sorry but I am not supposed to be searching the newspapers of the whole year(s) until I find when Papadopoulos was in Athens and when he has met the president of Greece, so that I find what and how he has said something that others attribute to him. It seems that the date in Alkan Chaglar's article is not the only inaccuracy, and this alone puts a lot of question marks on the quality of his work.

If you can find any direct quote of what Papadopoulos has said, in Greek, then I would greatly appreciate it if you provide it to us, because I am more than 100% sure he did not say things in the way Alkan Chaglar argues he did.

[karma]

the term "Greek Hellenism" not only is not used by Papadopoulos (he may have used the term "Cypriot Hellenism,") but it is also meaningless!

true !!!!


i didnot notice it before

''Greek Hellenism'' only Angela Dimitriou wld use this phrase

[Damsi]

Kifeas
Like I said I have no idea what terms were used, and I don't particularly care, only that he was in Athens in that period. Alkan Chaglar may be inaccurate about the quotation but the fact remains that pappy was in Athens in that period. That's all. I try not to get involved unless my facts are straight, that's why I don't want to speculate on what was said but I imagine the term Greek Hellenism was not used as it's not a term that would make much sense, since Hellenism is self explanatory ,otherwise it would be Ellinistiki Ellinismos or some such...a bit of a daft expression it would seem to me:)
So either the word Hellenism was used alone or the words Cypriot Hellenism were, which means Chaglar definitely got that bit wrong.

[Murataga]

Murataga wrote:
This is the man GCs ask TCs to joint them in calling the president of Cyprus. This is what TCs resisted 44 years ago. This what the TCs resist today. This is what TCs will resist to the end, if necessary with their lives. (from Cyprus Mail April 22, 2007) :

...President of the Republic of Cyprus was elsewhere on July 14, 2006, while visiting Greece. In his speech to the Greek head of state, President Papadopoulos stated loyally: “We [Cyprus] do not want, nor do we seek to transfer the weight of our problems to the shoulders of Greece. But, we do want our Greek brothers to realise that we in Cyprus, as we resist Turkish expansionism and fight for the national and physical survival of Greek Hellenism, are forward defenders of Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension.'

I would like to inform the forum readers that the above quotes from Mr. Alkan Chaglar's article (editor of "Toplum Postasi",) which was reprinted without second thought and double checking in the pathetic "Cyprus Mail" on the 22/04/2007, is highly inaccurate since the term "Greek Hellenism" not only is not used by Papadopoulos (he may have used the term "Cypriot Hellenism,") but it is also meaningless! Secondly, Papadopoulos has not been in Greece during the period on which Mr. Alkan Chaglar claims in his article.

You may ask, what is the difference if he had elsewhere said he defends or fights for the survival of “Cypriot Hellenism” in Cyprus? What does “Cypriot Hellenism” means? It simply means the Greek Cypriot community as a historical and a cultural entity in Cyprus. Nothing more, nothing less! Now tell me isn’t something that Talat, or Denktash, or Kutchuk or any other Turkish Cypriot would have said in relation to “Cypriot Turkishness,” meaning the cultural entity that the TC community constitutes in Cyprus?

I’ve seen you go low before, but God you’ve hit the bottom here haven’t you?...

Just so that everyone knows, I am providing another source without any relevance to the Author or the newspaper I provided initially:

Cyprus Weekly
http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy
By Alex Efthyvoulos in Athens
13th July 2006

" PRESIDENT Tassos Papadopoulos rounded up his two-day visit to Athens and talks with the Greek government and opposition leaders this week....

...We in Cyprus do not want, and do not even think of creating problems for Greece. We do not want, nor do we seek to transfer the weight of our problems to the shoulders of Greece. But, we do want our Greek brothers to realise that we in Cyprus, as we resist Turkish expansionism and fight for the national and physical survival of Greek Hellenism, are forward defenders of Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension.''

Apparently, the date of his visit might have been the 11th or 12th according to this source. But then again the original font of the article was Times New Roman and I changed it to Arial here, so guilty as charged I guess

You don’t have to tip toe around this stuff. If he didn’t tell these (which he clearly did) it wouldn’t matter anyway because everyone still knows that he didn’t tell them for the sake of being diplomatic. Just type his name and the word and Hellenism on google and see the number of stuff that comes up. The man was one of the members of the Akritas Organization for God`s sake… It wouldn’t matter if he called it plain Hellenism, Cyprus Hellenism, Zimbabwe Hellenism, Eskimo Hellenism or Greek Hellenism either for he can not speak of representing the whole of Cyprus as he chooses to be the defender and promoter of Hellenism of/in Cyprus. Doing so is agression against the TCs and a crystal clear display of his vision for Cyprus. There is a big difference when Talat or other Turkish leaders speak of “Cypriot Turkishness”: they do not make the ridiculous claim of representing the whole of Cyprus. So back to my initial point: Neither Cyprus or Cypriots are not "defending Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension" as Papadopoulus refers. The GCs are. The other Cypriot people, TCs, are not. Quite simple actually.

I’m going to help you save face on this: I did not place this reference to belittle or deamonize Hellenism in Cyprus. I sincerely believe that it is perfectly legitimate and acceptable. You or Papadoupolus or any other GC is absolutely free to live the Greek dream and Hellenize and do all that stuff.. That is as long as its promoters and defenders refrain from making the ridiculous claim of representing the whole of Cyprus and attempting to impose, expand or dominate over us with this mambo jumbo. If they do not, they are in violation of our, TCs, rights and should be prepared to face its consequences.

[Murataga]

last post was in reply to Kifeas

[zan]

Great post Murataga. It seems that he also has the blessing of the church (In the same link)

The Archbishop of Greece, conveyed a message of support on the part of the Greek Cypriots to the people of Cyprus.
Christodoulos, who arrived on the island on Sunday, expressed the wish for a free Cyprus to unite with the occupied north and the two communities to live together in peace, harmony and common horizons for securing the progress and the welfare of all citizens of the Republic.
Welcoming the Greek Primate to the island on Sunday, Archbishop Chrysosomos II expressed his special joy at his presence in Cyprus, “the ancient cradle of Hellenism and Christianity.”

Turkish Cypriots in a Helenic Cyprus....Where do I sign.

[Kifeas]

It wouldn’t matter if he called it plain Hellenism, Cyprus Hellenism, Zimbabwe Hellenism, Eskimo Hellenism or Greek Hellenism either for he can not speak of representing the whole of Cyprus as he chooses to be the defender and promoter of Hellenism of/in Cyprus. Doing so is agression against the TCs and a crystal clear display of his vision for Cyprus. There is a big difference when Talat or other Turkish leaders speak of “Cypriot Turkishness”: they do not make the ridiculous claim of representing the whole of Cyprus. So back to my initial point: Neither Cyprus or Cypriots are not "defending Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension" as Papadopoulus refers. The GCs are. The other Cypriot people, TCs, are not. Quite simple actually.

I’m going to help you save face on this: I did not place this reference to belittle or deamonize Hellenism in Cyprus. I sincerely believe that it is perfectly legitimate and acceptable. You or Papadoupolus or any other GC is absolutely free to live the Greek dream and Hellenize and do all that stuff.. That is as long as its promoters and defenders refrain from making the ridiculous claim of representing the whole of Cyprus and attempting to impose, expand or dominate over us with this mambo jumbo. If they do not, they are in violation of our, TCs, rights and should be prepared to face its consequences..

Apparently Mutaraga, it is not our fault that all these problems come from the 1960 constitution, but entirely yours and your motherland’s fault!

It is not us, Greek Cypriots, that have opted for and cherished the 1960 constitution, but it is your community's leadership and Turkey that have basically insisted and forced it on us!

It is not our fault if the 1960 constitution splits the people of Cyprus into Greeks and Turks, but this is something your "motherland" insisted in securing.

It is not us Greek Cypriots that have made the crime to have a constitution in which the president of the RoC must only come from the GC community and should also have, at the same time, the dual capacity of being the leader of the GC community; and the vice president of the RoC to come only from the TC community and also have the dual capacity of the leader of the TC community (like the leaders that some African tribes have;) but it is your "motherland" Turkey and your historical leadership that have opted for and insisted for such arrangements.

Do not blame Papadopoulos for acting at times as the president of the RoC (president of all Cypriots,) and at times as the leader of the GC community! Blame for this your "motherland" Turkey, for having all of us Cypriots subjected to the monstrosity called the 1960 London and Zurich "agreements," like we would have been subjected to another even worst monstrosity that was called the Anal plan, three years ago!

[zan]

It wouldn’t matter if he called it plain Hellenism, Cyprus Hellenism, Zimbabwe Hellenism, Eskimo Hellenism or Greek Hellenism either for he can not speak of representing the whole of Cyprus as he chooses to be the defender and promoter of Hellenism of/in Cyprus. Doing so is agression against the TCs and a crystal clear display of his vision for Cyprus. There is a big difference when Talat or other Turkish leaders speak of “Cypriot Turkishness”: they do not make the ridiculous claim of representing the whole of Cyprus. So back to my initial point: Neither Cyprus or Cypriots are not "defending Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension" as Papadopoulus refers. The GCs are. The other Cypriot people, TCs, are not. Quite simple actually.

I’m going to help you save face on this: I did not place this reference to belittle or deamonize Hellenism in Cyprus. I sincerely believe that it is perfectly legitimate and acceptable. You or Papadoupolus or any other GC is absolutely free to live the Greek dream and Hellenize and do all that stuff.. That is as long as its promoters and defenders refrain from making the ridiculous claim of representing the whole of Cyprus and attempting to impose, expand or dominate over us with this mambo jumbo. If they do not, they are in violation of our, TCs, rights and should be prepared to face its consequences..

Apparently Mutaraga, it is not our fault that all these problems come from the 1960 constitution, but entirely yours and your motherland’s fault!

It is not us, Greek Cypriots, that have opted for and cherished the 1960 constitution, but it is your community's leadership and Turkey that have basically insisted and forced it on us!

It is not our fault if the 1960 constitution splits the people of Cyprus into Greeks and Turks, but this is something your "motherland" insisted in securing.

It is not us Greek Cypriots that have made the crime to have a constitution in which the president of the RoC must only come from the GC community and should also have, at the same time, the dual capacity of being the leader of the GC community; and the vice president of the RoC to come only from the TC community and also have the dual capacity of the leader of the TC community (like the leaders that some African tribes have;) but it is your "motherland" Turkey and your historical leadership that have opted and insisted for such arrangements.

Do not blame Papadopoulos for acting at times as the president of the RoC (president of all Cypriots,) and at times as the leader of the GC community! Blame for this your "motherland" Turkey, for having all of us Cypriots subjected to the monstrosity called the 1960 London and Zurich "agreements," like we would have been subjected to another even worst monstrosity that was called the Anal plan, three years ago!

I think that Murataga will join me in saying that we will happily take all the credit for stopping ENOSIS. Thank you.