Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikephoros]

Human rights and humanitarianism are concepts having nothing to do with Turks in general. Turks are from a Kemalist(religious state) or Islamist(religion that is also the state) background and should be evaluated as such. Turks will take advantage of the term and concept human rights when something happens to a Turk in say Germany. But when the Turks commit a pogrom like the 1955 one or an invasion like in Cyprus keep thinking that this muslim nation respect human rights if you are stupid and ignorant.

[Natty]

(And Lena and Bir, I completely understand your relationship, and I think it's beautiful... )

[Natty]

Fantastic! Well I'm really looking forward to it now...although I don't actually posses a compass, so if you could possible supply me with one that would be brilliant...I mean you don't want Natty/Dorothy to go and get herself really lost in the Bush....or do you?

Natty/Dorothy can get lost in the bush near me...and I will organise a search party and find her before any harm can come to her...I can then show her where the great Wizard of Oz lives... ...

Well that certainly sounds like a plan Bir! Just make sure you find us in time, I don't want to be kidnapped by those freaky flying monkeys (Only in Oz ey?! )..

So your 'in' with the great Wizard are you?? Are you the only 'mere mortal' that knows the way to the Wizard without the use of the famous yellow brick road? Because if so, I'm impressed, and you must be truly honoured...

[BirKibrisli]

Fantastic! Well I'm really looking forward to it now...although I don't actually posses a compass, so if you could possible supply me with one that would be brilliant...I mean you don't want Natty/Dorothy to go and get herself really lost in the Bush....or do you?

Natty/Dorothy can get lost in the bush near me...and I will organise a search party and find her before any harm can come to her...I can then show her where the great Wizard of Oz lives... ...

Well that certainly sounds like a plan Bir! Just make sure you find us in time, I don't want to be kidnapped by those freaky flying monkeys (Only in Oz ey?! )..

So your 'in' with the great Wizard are you?? Are you the only 'mere mortal' that knows the way to the Wizard without the use of the famous yellow brick road? Because if so, I'm impressed, and you must be truly honoured...

I am the gatekeeper to the wonderful Wizard of Oz,Natty...
The famous yellow brick road was demolished in floods as the result of global warming...The Wizard had to be moved,and He is now a most welcome guest at my house in the bush...My 7-year-old boy has access to Him as well...

[BirKibrisli]

Human rights and humanitarianism are concepts having nothing to do with Turks in general. Turks are from a Kemalist(religious state) or Islamist(religion that is also the state) background and should be evaluated as such. Turks will take advantage of the term and concept human rights when something happens to a Turk in say Germany. But when the Turks commit a pogrom like the 1955 one or an invasion like in Cyprus keep thinking that this muslim nation respect human rights if you are stupid and ignorant.

If you want to pass judgement on Turks,you need to consider these historical points,Nike...:They were the subjects of the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years where authoritarianism ruled supreme;they had a very difficult transition to the present Republic of Turkey,facing total annihilation as a nation;then they had to cope with Ataturk's reforms which essentiaaly turned their world upside down once again...The essential ingredient of Kemalism is secularism,total separation of the religion from state affairs.And giving the Military the role of Protector of the nation...It is not easy being a Turk in today's world,and considering that they had little to do with the running of the Ottoman empire,and little say in Ataturk's reforms,they are entitled to a bit of sympathy and goodwill...I can criticise them all I want because I am their kin and I want to help them overcome their problems and become a modern and proud people who respect human rights and democracy...It doesn't mean that this gives you the right to put the boot in ...

[Nikephoros]

"Gokalp gave "the nation" an important mystical component. In his work, "he transferred to the nation the divine qualities he had found in society, replacing the belief in God with the belief in the nation: and so nationalism became a religion."[43] The national is deified, thus expanding Durkheim's idea that "society can do as it pleases." So, if a nation perceives iteself in danger, it feels no moral responsibility in its response to that danger. The Unionist "scientific approach" gained a "sacred" character through Gokalp's theories."

[43.] Heyd, Uriel. Foundations of Turkish Nationalism: The Life andTeachings of Ziya Gökalp., p. 57.

You mean that "Turkish secularism" described above.

Just because Turks like to take advantage of human rights and secularism to promote Turkishness and the Turkish foreign policy agenda, does not mean every Greek is stupid enough to help you. Human rights or secularism is a concept never implemented in any Islamic state or society.

[LENA]

(And Lena and Bir, I completely understand your relationship, and I think it's beautiful... )

I think it is beautiful too,Natty...I often think of Lena when I am down and it picks me up straight away. She is such a warm and sensitive creature that makes me think she might be from some other planet where humanity is far more advanced..

Oh....






That was so sweet Birkibrisli mou. I am speechless. Well I am honoured that you think about me that way and I am so glad that I help you when you are down...I wish I could do more for you birtanem

[mem101]

Nikephoros wrote:

"Turks will take advantage of the term and concept human rights when something happens to a Turk in say Germany. But when the Turks commit a pogrom like the 1955 one or an invasion like in Cyprus keep thinking that this muslim nation respect human rights if you are stupid and ignorant."


You are describing a characteristic of human nature and capitalism. In the capitalist world people have manipulate and cheat others to progress and the powerful gain more power. This analysis of the roles of individuals in the capitalist world can be compared to roles of entire nations in the world. USA is the best and easiest example. Anyone who knows anything about the foreign policies of the USA and their actions abroad can see that they have a purely capitalist agenda which has violated peoples human rights across the globe. And FYI the invasion of Cyprus would not have happened if America did not want it to happen.



"Just because Turks like to take advantage of human rights and secularism to promote Turkishness and the Turkish foreign policy agenda, does not mean every Greek is stupid enough to help you. Human rights or secularism is a concept never implemented in any Islamic state or society."


Every capitalist nation in the world uses rule/lawa/regulations to their advantage when it suits them and turns a blind eye when that suits them. If you can't see that then you are stupid and ignorant. You sound as though you think secularism is the way that the entire world should be governed. Different parts of the world have different cultures and traditions and are not necessarily better off living the way that the west lives. Your comments here are short sighted and border on racist.

[zan]

As I said....You like to condemn. I like to change for the better. You see no future in being Turkish. I see a dynamic country that is in the process of change for the better. My dad said to me the other day, " forget about Cyprus. They will never change. They will still be fighting in a hundred years time". Cypriots like to walk away from things they think they cannot control. I have beaten that urge to just walk away. You seem to be steeped in it. Yes there are big problems in Turkey and the TRNC/KKTC but that is what happens when a country gets closer and closer to a dramatic change. Suddenly people come out of he woodwork to protest about the life they know and trust. People are fearful of change. It is another of those human traits that you hate and are not in full control of. What ever happens the TC people will not be the same as they are now. They will change whether they like it or not. It is the rate of change at the moment that has awakened the primeval urge to run away. Control it and the world is yours. Let it get the better of you and you will be scared of your own shadow (your own people) as you are now.

I am not condemning anything or anyone,Zan...I just talk about the realities many of you guys don't want to see...There is no future in being Turkish,you are right...but that goes only for me,and if it was upto me, for all TCs. The future for the Turkish people is very bright,and good luck to them.If you think being the regional watchdog of the USA is a bright future that is...Turkey will protect the interests of global capital,and in turn will be allowed to become a big bully in the region,and an oppressive state for her millions of citizens who have the misfortune of not being ethnically Turkish...Principles of democracy,tolerance and respect for diversity,protection of the weak and the vulnerable,equality of opportunity or full human rights will never take root in Turkey.Because by nature Turkey is a thinly veiled military state,which would self destruct should the power of the Armed forces is ever broken...As the USA would not let it happen Turkey will take her "honourable" place among the big bullies of this world,chasing the unsustainable insanity of continued economic growth,and silencing anybody opposing this with military power,following the good example of her master,the USA...As I said before you like to be on the side of the powerful and the oppressor and the arrogant bully...I have always been on the side of the weak,of the suffering,of the oppressed,of the disadvantaged and the vulnerable...That is our difference...

With out turning us all into Buddhists which country would you pick to run the world. I understand that you will say no country should run it but in this hate filled world of yours it goes without saying that the more powerful will always be seen to BULLY the weaker ones no matter what they do.

What you really want to say is that it should be anyone except for Turkey. Your innate hate of anything Turkish and your irresponsible acts of sabotage on its reputation as a tolerant people that have many problems is clouding your judgement. You are making statements that not only do you not believe but also ones that you know do not make sense.

[BirKibrisli]

With out turning us all into Buddhists which country would you pick to run the world. I understand that you will say no country should run it but in this hate filled world of yours it goes without saying that the more powerful will always be seen to BULLY the weaker ones no matter what they do.

What you really want to say is that it should be anyone except for Turkey. Your innate hate of anything Turkish and your irresponsible acts of sabotage on its reputation as a tolerant people that have many problems is clouding your judgement. You are making statements that not only do you not believe but also ones that you know do not make sense.

Just because there are Bullies everywhere,and some are worse than others,we don't have to stop saying it is wrong to be a BULLY,or do whatever is withing our power to stop all bullies everywhere...Silence is always taken as consent by the Bullies,so it is our moral duty to speak up...
Your charge that I hate everything Turkish is only laughable.If you knew me personally you'd laugh at that allegation as well.But it is one thing to love Turkish language,literature,music,food,certain characteristics of the Turkish people,and another thing altogether to criticise the Turkish state,Turkish military,and Turkish politics,and Turkey's role in popping up the immoral and unsustainable global capitalist expansion and the cultural and economic neo-imperialism...Your inability to differentiate between the two is a common trait you share with the average Turkish citizen,and sadly indicates 'how many more loaves of bread you need to eat' before you can understand the basic principles of democracy and freedom of speech in action...Thank you and good night!..