Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

GET A ROOM!

.....

Ignore him,Lena mou...He is only jealous,and have one track mind... ...

Thats what I did Birkibrisli mou!! x

Good on you,Lena mou...some people have no appreciation of the tender and loving feelings two people can share without dragging it into the sexual gutter... ... xxxx000000xxxxx

[LENA]

GET A ROOM!

.....

Ignore him,Lena mou...He is only jealous,and have one track mind... ...

Thats what I did Birkibrisli mou!! x

Good on you,Lena mou...some people have no appreciation of the tender and loving feelings two people can share without dragging it into the sexual gutter... ... xxxx000000xxxxx

Exactly Birkibrisli mou...may be is because they dont share those kind of feelings with anyone...this kind of feelings might be unknown for them...

xxxxxx

[zan]

You ability to express your self is fine Bir. It is your inability to understand that we are not living with 70,000,000 Turks. We are living with a hand full of them. I will not go into numbers because we have argued enough about that and have not agreed so we will take it from there. What ever happens we will always be INFLUENCED by those millions in Turkey. You are thousands of miles away and I bet still have felt the changes in music.......etc. Are you trying to say that the GCs will protect us from this influence? If you are then that is the very point that I have been making in which we will be assimilated into Greek culture. I am not Greek. I have nothing against Greek culture or have any problem with it except the Hellenism. The only way in which your idealistic TC culture can ever be SAVED is if we outlaw anything Turkish from ever entering the shores of Cyprus. Ban satellite TV and newspapers. Stop visits to Turkey. The Cypriot cultures of old that you so crave were only because travel and any form of contact were slow if not impossible. It still filtered through though and we now have a modern TC. They will continue to evolve and there is nothing you can do to stop it. I don't know if you can't really see this fact or are just trying to ignore it through your exotic dreaming but never the less it is a fact. What is becoming increasingly clearer is that, if you do understand what I have just said, that you would prefer to be assimilated into Greek culture rather than the Turkish one and are just not being honest with us. The TRNC/KKTC has been living with this handful of mainland Turks for 40 years now and our cultures are still intact. We have evolved in natural terms no more than we would have. Why do you assume then that just the recognition or a TC administered state would change anything. We speak better Turkish and have educated our children to Turkish standards and are coming up in the world. We do not rely on a couple of educated people that can read to translate for us anymore. Your backward TC has bitten the dust long live the new generation. I do not believe in kismet. If you want, you do. As long as we can clear up some of the problems that Turkey has and those that have been imported to Cyprus then there is no reason why we cannot be proud TCs with our own distinct ways all be it with Turkey as an influence.

I will just make some comments on the points I have put in bold,if that is OK with you Zan? You will get my drift by the end...

Of course I have felt the changes in music and everthing else.Remember that I have been visiting Turkey every couple of years,and I was married to a Turkish lady for 7 years...My identity is Turkish Cypriot,Zan...I have earned my living as a Turkish/English translator and interpreter for years.
I watch the Maraton (football show) and support Fenerbahche.I follow closely the Popstar A la Turca competition (I want Erhan to win...I really loved Tamer but he was eliminated last week so I was sad...)I watch yabanci damat and Iki aile series...and listen to Ebru gundes,Orhan Gencebay,Ibrahim Tatlises,Zeki Muren,Zulfu Livaneli and Barish mancho tapes,plus many oldies like Nilufer,Sezen Aksu, Yashar Ozel,Tanju Okan, Cem karaca,Edip akbayram,Emel Sayin,Ozdemir Erdogan,and new ones like Murat gogebakan,Yildiz tilbe,Mustafa Sandal,Serdar ortach and of course Tarkan...This is part and parcel of being of Turkish origin ethnically.There is nothing wrong with these influences or reading the likes of Orhan pamuk,Aziz nesin,Yasar kemal,Fakir Baykurt,Nazim Hikmet,
Ahmet hamdi Tanpinar,Yahya Kemal etc etc...I would never give these up in a million years...This is not what I am talking about...What we are risking is our significant differences in culture which comes from living in Cyprus,being Cypriots,having spend centuries mixing with our Cypriot compatriots of other origins...What we stand to lose is our own TC literature,TC food,TC music,TC way of looking at life including the relaxed way of practising our religion,our sense of humour,our democratic and progressive world view....but above all we are risking our right of self government and self determination...As long as we can pick and choose which parts of the Turkish culture we want to maintain and which parts to ignore,we are doing fine...But if the Turkish culture is allowed to decend on us like a bulldozer,we will be soon flattened out culturally and all aspect of our Cypriotness will disappear.The effect will be subliminal and subconscious...We cannot withstand the full force of the Turkish cultural and political onslought...Our uniqueness will be extinguished whatever we do...On the other hand if we are with our GC brothers our different language and religion plus the other Turkish -influenced differences will enable us to maintain our unique TC culture...I don't know how else to put it all.So I will stop here...We will cross swords again on other threads I am sure...

And that is the crux of the problem between you and me. You see us as broken beyond repair and totally incompetent. I see us in a struggle on many fronts with the ability and the will to make good. Your comments about how bad the human race is testament to this. It seems that you are prepared to lay down and die while I revel in humanity and take charge of my destiny. You must be very afraid of what is happening in Turkey. The changes that are happening in order to join the EU. It must be frightening for you because it will mean that the very things that you accuse them of will disappear and you will not be able to use them as a scapegoat. 15 short years will see them in the EU and the TRNC/KKTC looking after it self and Turkish Cyprifieing all its citisens just like the 700,000 GCs you quoted. People with all sorts of backgrounds including the majority from Greece that can and do see themselves as GCs, but then you split the TCs up into smaller groups to make them seem as if they are losing control. Everything they touch turns to GC but everything we touch leaves a stain on our skins. Does that seem fair to you? Does it seem as being a balanced and well thought out theory??????

[BirKibrisli]

And that is the crux of the problem between you and me. You see us as broken beyond repair and totally incompetent. I see us in a struggle on many fronts with the ability and the will to make good. Your comments about how bad the human race is testament to this. It seems that you are prepared to lay down and die while I revel in humanity and take charge of my destiny. You must be very afraid of what is happening in Turkey. The changes that are happening in order to join the EU. It must be frightening for you because it will mean that the very things that you accuse them of will disappear and you will not be able to use them as a scapegoat. 15 short years will see them in the EU and the TRNC/KKTC looking after it self and Turkish Cyprifieing all its citisens just like the 700,000 GCs you quoted. People with all sorts of backgrounds including the majority from Greece that can and do see themselves as GCs, but then you split the TCs up into smaller groups to make them seem as if they are losing control. Everything they touch turns to GC but everything we touch leaves a stain on our skins. Does that seem fair to you? Does it seem as being a balanced and well thought out theory??????

Poor Zan...You see things not as they are but as you want to see them...
Just look at what is happening in the Presidential election process in Turkey...Even the left wing intellectuals are urging the Military to intervene to stop the election of Gul as President.And the reason?Because he is considered more religious than themselves,and has his roots in political Islam.Oh,and because his wife wears the Islamic head-dress...

Some democratic culture indeed...You can have any president you want as long as he thinks like me,looks like me,acts like me,and has a wife who looks like our wives...With this understanding of democratic principles Turkey will join the EU in about 250 years...And you still think you will maintain your unique TC identity living with people with this mentality...And these are the best of them...I will not mention the millions who follow the fascist,ultranationalist MHP party (the Grey wolves!!!).
Wake up,mate...

[zan]

And that is the crux of the problem between you and me. You see us as broken beyond repair and totally incompetent. I see us in a struggle on many fronts with the ability and the will to make good. Your comments about how bad the human race is testament to this. It seems that you are prepared to lay down and die while I revel in humanity and take charge of my destiny. You must be very afraid of what is happening in Turkey. The changes that are happening in order to join the EU. It must be frightening for you because it will mean that the very things that you accuse them of will disappear and you will not be able to use them as a scapegoat. 15 short years will see them in the EU and the TRNC/KKTC looking after it self and Turkish Cyprifieing all its citisens just like the 700,000 GCs you quoted. People with all sorts of backgrounds including the majority from Greece that can and do see themselves as GCs, but then you split the TCs up into smaller groups to make them seem as if they are losing control. Everything they touch turns to GC but everything we touch leaves a stain on our skins. Does that seem fair to you? Does it seem as being a balanced and well thought out theory??????

Poor Zan...You see things not as they are but as you want to see them...
Just look at what is happening in the Presidential election process in Turkey...Even the left wing intellectuals are urging the Military to intervene to stop the election of Gul as President.And the reason?Because he is considered more religious than themselves,and has his roots in political Islam.Oh,and because his wife wears the Islamic head-dress...

Some democratic culture indeed...You can have any president you want as long as he thinks like me,looks like me,acts like me,and has a wife who looks like our wives...With this understanding of democratic principles Turkey will join the EU in about 250 years...And you still think you will maintain your unique TC identity living with people with this mentality...And these are the best of them...I will not mention the millions who follow the fascist,ultranationalist MHP party (the Grey wolves!!!).
Wake up,mate...

As I said....You like to condemn. I like to change for the better. You see no future in being Turkish. I see a dynamic country that is in the process of change for the better. My dad said to me the other day, " forget about Cyprus. They will never change. They will still be fighting in a hundred years time". Cypriots like to walk away from things they think they cannot control. I have beaten that urge to just walk away. You seem to be steeped in it. Yes there are big problems in Turkey and the TRNC/KKTC but that is what happens when a country gets closer and closer to a dramatic change. Suddenly people come out of he woodwork to protest about the life they know and trust. People are fearful of change. It is another of those human traits that you hate and are not in full control of. What ever happens the TC people will not be the same as they are now. They will change whether they like it or not. It is the rate of change at the moment that has awakened the primeval urge to run away. Control it and the world is yours. Let it get the better of you and you will be scared of your own shadow (your own people) as you are now.

[Natty]

And sorry about OZ...It's short/slang for Australia

And there's me thinking you were talking about the land of Oz Bir, you know where the great wizard lives, and where there's a long yellow brick road..

Although I wonder why they call Australia Oz? Unless it literally is the Land of Oz with a freakishly long yellow brick road, Wicked witches and a lost girl walking around with a dog, a Tin Man, a scarecrow and a lion that has defied evolution and walks on his hind legs?? Because if that’s the case I’m booking a ticket to Australia right now!

(I think I'm still stuck in Wizard of Oz Mode when it comes to this forum...I have Kikapu to thank for that I believe.. )

Australia is the land where a great Wizard lives,and has a long yellow brick road...Let me know when you are coming,Natty,I'll pick you up from the airport. Together with the scarecrow,the lion and the Tin man...

I new it! Well it seems that Australia is where I belong.. Just let me find out what the Tin Man, the Scarecrow and The lion are up to and I shall book our tickets as soon as is possible! Just remember though, after you pick us up, to drop us off somewhere in the Bush, so we can get ourselves lost, kill the wicked witch, follow the yellow brick road and finally call upon the all knowing, and all wise Wizard of Oz!

"We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz..."

No problem,Natty...There is plenty of bush around where I live...You might need a good compass to get out the bush after you kill the wicked witch though.The yellow brick road is not as visible as it used to be...

Fantastic! Well I'm really looking forward to it now...although I don't actually posses a compass, so if you could possible supply me with one that would be brilliant...I mean you don't want Natty/Dorothy to go and get herself really lost in the Bush....or do you?

(And Lena and Bir, I completely understand your relationship, and I think it's beautiful... )

[LENA]

(And Lena and Bir, I completely understand your relationship, and I think it's beautiful... )

[BirKibrisli]

As I said....You like to condemn. I like to change for the better. You see no future in being Turkish. I see a dynamic country that is in the process of change for the better. My dad said to me the other day, " forget about Cyprus. They will never change. They will still be fighting in a hundred years time". Cypriots like to walk away from things they think they cannot control. I have beaten that urge to just walk away. You seem to be steeped in it. Yes there are big problems in Turkey and the TRNC/KKTC but that is what happens when a country gets closer and closer to a dramatic change. Suddenly people come out of he woodwork to protest about the life they know and trust. People are fearful of change. It is another of those human traits that you hate and are not in full control of. What ever happens the TC people will not be the same as they are now. They will change whether they like it or not. It is the rate of change at the moment that has awakened the primeval urge to run away. Control it and the world is yours. Let it get the better of you and you will be scared of your own shadow (your own people) as you are now.

I am not condemning anything or anyone,Zan...I just talk about the realities many of you guys don't want to see...There is no future in being Turkish,you are right...but that goes only for me,and if it was upto me, for all TCs. The future for the Turkish people is very bright,and good luck to them.If you think being the regional watchdog of the USA is a bright future that is...Turkey will protect the interests of global capital,and in turn will be allowed to become a big bully in the region,and an oppressive state for her millions of citizens who have the misfortune of not being ethnically Turkish...Principles of democracy,tolerance and respect for diversity,protection of the weak and the vulnerable,equality of opportunity or full human rights will never take root in Turkey.Because by nature Turkey is a thinly veiled military state,which would self destruct should the power of the Armed forces is ever broken...As the USA would not let it happen Turkey will take her "honourable" place among the big bullies of this world,chasing the unsustainable insanity of continued economic growth,and silencing anybody opposing this with military power,following the good example of her master,the USA...As I said before you like to be on the side of the powerful and the oppressor and the arrogant bully...I have always been on the side of the weak,of the suffering,of the oppressed,of the disadvantaged and the vulnerable...That is our difference...

[BirKibrisli]

Fantastic! Well I'm really looking forward to it now...although I don't actually posses a compass, so if you could possible supply me with one that would be brilliant...I mean you don't want Natty/Dorothy to go and get herself really lost in the Bush....or do you?

Natty/Dorothy can get lost in the bush near me...and I will organise a search party and find her before any harm can come to her...I can then show her where the great Wizard of Oz lives... ...

[BirKibrisli]

(And Lena and Bir, I completely understand your relationship, and I think it's beautiful... )

I think it is beautiful too,Natty...I often think of Lena when I am down and it picks me up straight away. She is such a warm and sensitive creature that makes me think she might be from some other planet where humanity is far more advanced..