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[Plato]

Bir, you are very wise and give me hope.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, do you speak Greek at all?

Unfortunately,not much,GR...Why?

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, you are very wise and give me hope.

Thank you,Plato...My regards to Socrates!

[Get Real!]

Bir, do you speak Greek at all?

Unfortunately,not much,GR...Why?

Your viewpoint is similar to TC's that had lived among GC's for years, never came across any of the inter-communal violence, and also spoke Greek very fluently. I guess I'm trying to fit you into a "category"

[LENA]

I was reading your conversation with Zan my dear Birkibrisli...I hope we had more TC and GC talking like you. The only thing most Cypriot care about is land .... how much they will get. I dont think many the Cypriots care about being Cypriots!

And I believe we can only be truly liberated as Cypriots.United we stand,divided,well,divided both communities will disappear eventually in a big ocean of global power interests...I have seen the light,Zan...You and most TCs are fumbling around in your dark corners afraid of your own shadows.I refuse to die every day.I want to live freely as a Cypriot with my head high in my own country one day.Not exist as second rate citizens in the shadows of guns,tanks and soldiers...

[zan]

I do listen to what Bir says and I appreciate that that is the way the problem of unification will be solved but the question is, is it possible. Bannaniot is much more a realist than Bir can ever be. I see him attack both sides in a more balanced way not the way you do it Bir. You see the RoC as the perfect place for us when it clearly is not and your comments are always for the RoC and never for the TRNC/KKTC. You have made a few generous concessions to our suffering and corrected the way the lies have been banded around by GCs but the only anger you show is to us. You talk to the others as friends and us your enemy. Well don't be surprised when that anger is reciprocated and you are treated as an enemy of the Turkish Cypriot people. The wrongs and the faults of the illegal RoC are there for all to see and you do nothing to correct that so how on earth do you think that your inaction is going to change the minds of the TCs to think like you in order to achieve the unity that you oh so desire.

I think I am more of a realist than you give me credit for,Zan...
I never said "the ROC is the perfect place for us".Don't spend time looking for it,you won't find it anywhere. I am probably the only person on this forum (the other probability is Bananiot,but I haven't read everything he has written) who thinks Papadopoulos can fairly and legally be accused of an act of treason against Cyprus,for his activities pro Enosis between 1960-63.How can I think RoC is the perfect place for TCs with him as President?

And I cannot recall many places where I showed anger towards the TCs.
I have shown anger towards Turkey (for turning an internationally legal intervention in 74 into an illegal occupation,and making it worse by illegally transporting more than one hundred thousand settlers and hence taking away what little political power or say the TC community had in Cyprus).And I have shown anger towards the TMT for turning into a terrorist organisation often targetting the TC community,and perhaps some anger towards the war profiteers who turned other peeople's misery into profit for themselves,but I am not angry towards the TC community overall,for the same reason that I am not angry towards the overall GC community: Both communities are the victims in this bloody conflict,the only winners are the foreign powers who still hold us all captive to their heinous interests...

Having lived 18 years in Cyprus,during her most troubled times,and nearly 39 years in exile in Australia,and having had the opportunity to work with mainland Turks,visit Turkey often,and marry a Turkish lady,I have come to the conclusion that we are much more like the GCs than our Turkish cousins.The Turks are our cousins perhaps,but the GCs are our brothers and sisters,our own flesh and blood,the people whose gene pool we share. And having considered everything I have also come to the conclusion that there is only one sure and logical way to achieve a just and lasting solution to Cyprob:by shedding our unthinking nationalism,chauvinism,and all sorts of prejudices,and embracing each other as Cypriots in a unitary democratic state of Cyprus..and sod the rest.I am not saying it is easy,and both sides have to come to the party,and it will take more years than I would like to think about,but the alternative is an endless cold war followed by hot conflict and more pain and suffering for our people,the Cypriots...If you want to hang me and quarter me for these beliefs,please be my guest.But all I am doing is doing my little part in the process of building understanding and respect and eventual reconciliation (I hope).You can't get people to understand you,respect you and perhaps empathise with you,Zan, if you spit in their face...

Turning the other cheek has not moved us any nearer your goals either Bir. As conclusions go, I have come to the conclusion that those GCs that hold no animosity against me do not need the other cheek, whilst those that are constantly slapping me in the face need sterner actions to get them to stop doing it.

The point I was trying to make about your posts is that you very generously gave the GCs the excuse they need and called their actions political but all the actions that you quote above from the Turkish side are not. Why is that?

Our difference is that you don't make a distinction between acts by Turkey and acts by TCs.Notice that I didn't say acts by the TRNC,because very little is decided by politicians in the North.Most decisions are taken in Ankara.If you deny this,well you are in denial and you should be the last person to accuse me of not facing reality.I lament the Turkification of the TCs while you applaud it.I think it is criminal to subjugate a whole community and assimilate them the way Turkey is doing to TCs.I have always been on the side of the underdog...and Cypriots are the underdogs in this fight.You have chosen to throw your support behind those who want to enslave you and look down on you and consider you second rate Turks.I have chosen to throw my support behind the forces of hope and reconciliation. I refuse to subscribe to the politics of fear and intimidation.The politics of blind nationalism and unthinking Turkish chauvinism. And I believe we can only be truly liberated as Cypriots.United we stand,divided,well,divided both communities will disappear eventually in a big ocean of global power interests...I have seen the light,Zan...You and most TCs are fumbling around in your dark corners afraid of your own shadows.I refuse to die every day.I want to live freely as a Cypriot with my head high in my own country one day.Not exist as second rate citizens in the shadows of guns,tanks and soldiers...

See...There you go again. You have seen the light? The problem is that the light is shining right into your eyes and you see nothing. I don't wish for that to sound as harsh as it does but...........


You do not want to live in fear and intimidation...Unless it is from the Greek side. You see the light from only the position that you want to and avert your eyes from the realities from both sides. If you are asking me to believe that the RoC make all the decisions without their mother land then you really are asking too much. They have made a better job of hiding their unity with the motherland and we have not. That is the only difference. You could say that circumstances have not allowed us to do so but lets be over generous and say that we just did not do a good job of it.
When it comes to being afraid of the shadows...Do you not exhibit the same fear but for different reasons. I liken it to someone that is afraid of spiders trying to ridicule someone for being afraid of rats. You have chosen your phobia for the Turks and I have chosen the Greeks or rather the ones that want to do me harm whether it be physical or political. Are you also trying to tell me that the RoC or indeed Greece has no tanks or guns. I remember them getting in trouble a while back for spending a bit too much on just those items. I would not mind you calling where ever it is you think you are at Eden if you were actually standing in a field of flowers with peace written on every blade of grass but even Bannaniot cannot see the picture you paint and he is living in that very same field. It seems that the GCs that are telling us of this Promised Land have put an awful lot of manure down but forgot to plant the seeds needed. That my friend boils down to a field just full of shit. I know that Turkey has its problems and that relations with them has its problems too but the scenario you paint, that we will be second class citisens to them still sounds much much better than the very same status we will have in a Greek Cyprus. Second class Turks as opposed to second class non-entities. So the next time you make fun or even pity me for my very real and justified fears, first examine your own fears and make the comparison before you get on your high horse and tell me you alone have seen the light.

[BirKibrisli]

You do not want to live in fear and intimidation...Unless it is from the Greek side. You see the light from only the position that you want to and avert your eyes from the realities from both sides. If you are asking me to believe that the RoC make all the decisions without their mother land then you really are asking too much. They have made a better job of hiding their unity with the motherland and we have not. That is the only difference. You could say that circumstances have not allowed us to do so but lets be over generous and say that we just did not do a good job of it.
When it comes to being afraid of the shadows...Do you not exhibit the same fear but for different reasons. I liken it to someone that is afraid of spiders trying to ridicule someone for being afraid of rats. You have chosen your phobia for the Turks and I have chosen the Greeks or rather the ones that want to do me harm whether it be physical or political. Are you also trying to tell me that the RoC or indeed Greece has no tanks or guns. I remember them getting in trouble a while back for spending a bit too much on just those items. I would not mind you calling where ever it is you think you are at Eden if you were actually standing in a field of flowers with peace written on every blade of grass but even Bannaniot cannot see the picture you paint and he is living in that very same field. It seems that the GCs that are telling us of this Promised Land have put an awful lot of manure down but forgot to plant the seeds needed. That my friend boils down to a field just full of shit. I know that Turkey has its problems and that relations with them has its problems too but the scenario you paint, that we will be second class citisens to them still sounds much much better than the very same status we will have in a Greek Cyprus. Second class Turks as opposed to second class non-entities. So the next time you make fun or even pity me for my very real and justified fears, first examine your own fears and make the comparison before you get on your high horse and tell me you alone have seen the light.

You are right,Zan...My biggest fear is that we will be assimilated into the Turkish society and disappear from the face of the earth.But unlike your fears,my fear is very real.It is happening as we speak. Your fears are based on events long past,they are false and pathological.You refuse to acknowledge that times have changed,and we have learned from history.Those terrible events which made you (and me!) scared shitless in the past cannot be repeated.You are also refusing to accept that we are closer to GCs in every aspect of our identity than our Turkish cousins.You are also refusing to see that if things continue the way they are you will be second class citizens in your new haven! Perhaps you really prefer that to living as equal citizens with our GC brothers in an independent and free Cyprus,as you say.That is your choice.Don't expect me to join you there.I will only return to Cypus if I can live as an equal citizen in a country respecting my right to be different,to be myself. It looks as if that will be the RoC.If my rights are trumpled upon in the RoC I can take my grivances to the EU human rights commission.Where will you take your grivances when you are treated as a servant/ nuisance in the TRNC???

ps.Lena will protect me anyway from those big bad wolves who will want to eat me alive,won't you Lena mou???

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, do you speak Greek at all?

Unfortunately,not much,GR...Why?

Your viewpoint is similar to TC's that had lived among GC's for years, never came across any of the inter-communal violence, and also spoke Greek very fluently. I guess I'm trying to fit you into a "category"

In that case I will give you a clue.I come from Paphos and my grandparents spoke better Greek than Turkish.I was in Nicosia during the terrible 63-68 period and had my share of" fear and loathing" everything Greek,believe me...But I also had the good fortune of living as a tennant with a mainland Greek family when I first came to Australia.That family did not have a son,and treated me as one for the period I was there.I learned there that there are no Good or bad Greeks or Turks, only good people and bad people...

[miltiades]

Zan wrote:
""""36 Countries said boll**ks to their political fantasies and maybe even are thinking of saying the same to more of their policies. We can only wait and see. Time is running out for them unless they see that there are people that are listening to the truth and the lies they have been spreading is wearing thin. I am sure that you will keep right on helping them though. """

Zan the dreamer , Zan the poet , Zan the redicolous , accolades reserved for fools living in paradise .
36 countries he says , does he not mean delegates from 36 countries . Political fantasies he says , such as the poet he is. Political fantasies , such as the RoC being the only legitimate government of Cyprus , a status recognised by the entire world . A member nation of the UN , Commonwealth , Europe . Political fantasies or what ! A part of Cyprus occupied by a power that signed the Zurich agreement as a guarantor for Cyprus's independence, 40 thousand occupying troops on its' soil , Oh no just another fantasy .Zan the poet , the dreamer the political pundit who makes a mockery of common .
Time is running out he says , the world might just wake up and realise that what the RoC has been telling them for years is blatant lies . Their island is not partly occupied by a foreign power , 200 thousand of their people have not been displaced and to visit their villages and towns of birth they are required to produce a PASSPORT. Their properties are systematically being sold to foreigners , their towns have been infiltrated by thousands of settlers , mostly uneducated peasants from Anatolia , and every crook from the UK finds solace and a welcome from the occupying authorities who are busy eradicating the last remnants of the T/C identity.

BUT he takes comfort from the fact that Nations ARE NOW listening to the truth ! There are no occupation troops in Cyprus , a figment of their imagination . There is only one nation that represents Cyprus .THE TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS. World take notice , stop listening to the " RoC " We the people of Cyprus demand that you recognise us as the only legitimate Cyprus , don't listen to the lies of the G/Cs any more.

Listen mate , you are another VP in every sense of the world. Next to Kikapu , Bir and many more true Cypriots you are but a pathetic individual full of hatred and in many ways full of poetic crap.

[Murataga]

@Birkibrisli:

I have come to the conclusion that we are much more like the GCs than our Turkish cousins.The Turks are our cousins perhaps,but the GCs are our brothers and sisters,our own flesh and blood,the people whose gene pool we share.

I totally disagree. I have GC friends that I socialize regularly since the doors opened in 2003 and I went to college in Turkey (which by the way was perhaps the most fun 4 years of my life) and have many friends in Turkey with whom I still interact. What you claim is a total distorsion of realities to convince people of your beliefs. With those "cousins", as you wish to label them, we speak the same language, we share the same religion, our marriages are simlar to their`s, we have intermarriage (as in your case), our folklore is similar to their`s, our food is similar to their`s, our jokes are similar to their`s, our conversations are similar to their`s, our traditions are similar to their`s and etc. I do not deny that we have many things in common with the GCs aswell. However, the comparative proportion of these similarities that you reflect in your comment (cousin vs. brother of flesh (!!!)) is ludicrous to say the least.

Secondly, when have you become the genetic scientist to derive at conclusions about our gene pool? Can you or anyone else with an inch of dignity deny that for the past 5 centuries during which TCs and GCs lived together in Cyprus, that intermarriage between the two communities have not prevailed? What gene pool are you talking about? Can you or anyone else with an inch of dignity deny that we have lived in separate villages based on communal backgrounds and even those living in same ones had neighborhoods forming based on communal backgrounds? We lived as good friends, we lived as good neighbors, we lived as good colleagues, but we never ever lived as one. And this is nothing to be ashamed of or to deny.

There is no Cypriot nation and there has never been one. Forcing us into this sythetic nationality is no different than trying to peel the skin off a living person and it is the most severe violation of our human rights that can not and will not accepted. We are Turkish Cypriots, that is two words, and neither of those words can be taken away from us to reach a political concensus.

You are offering a perspective for a solution with sincerity. I acknowledge and respect that. But you have to do it basing it on realities not "want to be"s.