Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

you voted for 40 000 Turkish troops to remain in Cyprus for ever, along with 180 000 settlers, a number that grows by the day.

You said there are 180.000 settlers? I will report you to Talat for that and they will not give to you the raise the promised

I never voted for any settlers or troops to remain. You did that. Didn't you see that the plan you said "yes" included Turkish settlers and Turkish troops? I have never accepted such thing.

Now, you are waiting for the balance of power to change in 10, 50, 100 years. In the meantime, you think Turkey will seat and wait for us to throw her out.

No, in the meantime we will progress and improve our economy and standards of living, while we will help the forces that are aligned with our interests and ensure that Turks remain in the 3rd world and face as many consequences as possible.

Why would I vote for something that would make my present life and that of my childrens, worse?

They never answer this question DT. They don't even have arguments to support the Annan plan, and then they wonder why people rejected it.

Personally I can think of only one logical reason that somebody would vote "yes" in the Annan plan. If this person believes that there can be no more fair land distribution, and therefore accepts the Annan plan so we can get that 7% back and then continue to partition.
Thats the only logical argument in favor of Annan plan.

Anybody that believes that monstrosity could survive for more than a few years or that it could create a better life for the majority of GCs is a total retard.

[Piratis]

If the Turks want to invade again it is very easy for them to find some lame excuse to do it. They don't need me for that. However it would be much easier for them to find that excuse if we had accepted the Annan plan that would inevitably cause friction and conflict between the two communities.

The only friction would be caused by people like your self that only wants to win in a situation that was caused by many factors in the past. The progress you have made without the so-called interference of the TC community is not enough. We have been held back for nearly half a century while you have put billions into your pockets and you still want more. With the Annan plan more progress would have been made if TPap and the RoC were not promised EU membership without a solution. As Bannaniot said you thought that all your troubles would be over from within this organization but your hands were tied instead. TPap made a massive mistake in not negotiating a better fairer deal if that is what you wanted and is now paying the price. He now tries to solve the problem by getting the refugees off his back by taking all the land that is available, which is mainly TC land and redistributing to these people. His biggest bugbear is the refugees and he has not been able to off load them onto the EU or us. The loss of 200,000 votes has got him pissing his pants because the only options he has left are partition and a loose two-state system. For him partition would easily be the best option but he cannot be seen to go in that direction so we, the TCs will have to bare the burden for his cockups.

You are the ones who want to gain on the loss of our human and legal rights. What we achieved we achieved it with our hard work, even if we had 1/3rd of our population as refugees. This is unlike you who have never learned how to do that. You only know how to steal what does not belong to you.

And the TC land is not distributed so don't make up stories. The TC land is just use to house the refugees until you allow them to return to their own homes. Or maybe you wanted them to live in tents for 32 years while you exploit the properties you stole from them?

Partition is not an option. It is either legality, or stay there in an unrecognized isolated pseudo state until you change your mind and start showing some respect to international law and human rights.

[zan]

We have said many times we understand why you rejected it but you guys insist on throwing up a smoke screen and not answering the question as to why TPpap and his government did not negotiate a better deal and sabotaged the whole thing with the pretence that they would vote yes until the last moment. Kifeas came up with a lame excuse that you did not have enough time to assess all the details.....Then what made you vote OXI......Was it just a guess that it was no good for you.

[Piratis]

Pretense that we would vote yes???? What are you talking about? Who ever said that we would vote yes to such a plan? The polls months before the referendum had made it clear that unless the plan was massively improved it would be rejected. I have never seen a poll showing any kind of majority supporting the Annan plan.

About Papadopoulos "not negotiating" I hope you remember that the two sides did not agree so Annan "filled in the gabs". So if your side kept saying "no" to all our proposals what Papadopoulos could do?

[Bananiot]

Lets be honest about it. Papadopoulos does not care about BBF. Throughout his long life he has schemed against the Turkish Cypriots and he will not sign anything that would amount to sharing of power in Cyprus, especially sharing with a politically equal Turkish Cypriot community. The history of the man speaks for itself. His recent policies and tactics pay testament to the above.

Yes Piratis, you have voted for the partition of Cyprus in the vague hope that we would get a better deal. It is the end result that matters, not your wishful thinking. By the way, the Annan Plan provided for the return of tens of thousands of refugees to places like Famagusta, Morphou and many important villages. A token number of Turkish soldier would remain (650), almost half of the Greek soldiers.

Now, you tell me how the 40 000 soldiers will leave and how any of the refugees will go back and where will they go back to in a few years time when there would be nothing left to go back to. In the meantime, the international community views our side as the intransigent one and the Turkish side as the side most willing to resolve the problem.

[zan]

Pretense that we would vote yes???? What are you talking about? Who ever said that we would vote yes to such a plan? The polls months before the referendum had made it clear that unless the plan was massively improved it would be rejected. I have never seen a poll showing any kind of majority supporting the Annan plan.

About Papadopoulos "not negotiating" I hope you remember that the two sides did not agree so Annan "filled in the gabs". So if your side kept saying "no" to all our proposals what Papadopoulos could do?

I said negotiate not steam roll. You guys seem to think that your way is the only way and anything that we throw in is to be rejected. You come up with a statement of "what was he supposed to do" and do not make the same assumption for us. What were we supposed to do....Let you walk all over us.


As for the rest, you and Kifeas seem to change your comments more than the British weather. First you both said you did not have enough time and now it is more time than you needed. Although the OXI campaign was going strong for a few months, why did it come as such a surprise for the EU and for the TCs and Turkey. If Denktas was assured long before the vote that you guys would have voted OXI then he could have had an extended holiday.

[Piratis]

Lets be honest about it. Papadopoulos does not care about BBF. Throughout his long life he has schemed against the Turkish Cypriots and he will not sign anything that would amount to sharing of power in Cyprus, especially sharing with a politically equal Turkish Cypriot community. The history of the man speaks for itself. His recent policies and tactics pay testament to the above.

And in which other country a minority of 18% has 50% of power. Thats racist and undemocratic. There is no problem with proportional sharing of power. The 18% of the TC minority can have 18% of power. Why should the have more?

Yes Piratis, you have voted for the partition of Cyprus in the vague hope that we would get a better deal. It is the end result that matters, not your wishful thinking. By the way, the Annan Plan provided for the return of tens of thousands of refugees to places like Famagusta, Morphou and many important villages. A token number of Turkish soldier would remain (650), almost half of the Greek soldiers.

And much more refugees would not return and the human and democratic rights of all of us would be violated. Personally I refuse to accept any deal that would make me a second category citizen in my country. We are not in the time of Ottomans anymore. I can accept TCs as equal citizens as me, not as my masters were each one of them would have 4.5 more voting power than me.

Now, you tell me how the 40 000 soldiers will leave and how any of the refugees will go back and where will they go back to in a few years time when there would be nothing left to go back to.

For me what is important is for the occupation to end. Where the Turkish troops are, in Cyprus or 5 minutes from Cyprus is not important. The Annan plan would legalize partition and give to the Turks 1/3rd of our country and the right to bring back their troops whenever they felt like it.

Maybe a few thousand refugees would benefit financially. Do you want to sacrifice the rest of the refugees and the well being of the rest of us for a small minority of refugees that would have some financial benefits?

In the meantime, the international community views our side as the intransigent one and the Turkish side as the side most willing to resolve the problem.

To the degree this is true is all due to your efforts.

[Piratis]

I said negotiate not steam roll. You guys seem to think that your way is the only way and anything that we throw in is to be rejected. You come up with a statement of "what was he supposed to do" and do not make the same assumption for us. What were we supposed to do....Let you walk all over us. Rolling Eyes

You just shot down your own argument. Before you said we didn't get a better plan because Papadopoulos didn't negotiate, and now you say that you had the right to reject all of our proposals. So which one is it? If Papadopoulos was asking for more, would you accept it? No. Because he did ask for some more fair parameters and as usual you rejected them.

As for the rest, you and Kifeas seem to change your comments more than the British weather. First you both said you did not have enough time and now it is more time than you needed. Although the OXI campaign was going strong for a few months, why did it come as such a surprise for the EU and for the TCs and Turkey. If Denktas was assured long before the vote that you guys would have voted OXI then he could have had an extended holiday.

Well, then I am sad I didn't go to bet my whole property against those that didn't understand what was so obvious months before the referendum. I would have been billionaire now.

The plan was so bad only an idiot could expect that there was even a chance in a million that we would have accepted it.

And by the way, I am not Kifeas, so I don't know what he said. What I say is always consistent.

[zan]

I said negotiate not steam roll. You guys seem to think that your way is the only way and anything that we throw in is to be rejected. You come up with a statement of "what was he supposed to do" and do not make the same assumption for us. What were we supposed to do....Let you walk all over us. Rolling Eyes

You just shot down your own argument. Before you said we didn't get a better plan because Papadopoulos didn't negotiate, and now you say that you had the right to reject all of our proposals. So which one is it? If Papadopoulos was asking for more, would you accept it? No. Because he did ask for some more fair parameters and as usual you rejected them.

As for the rest, you and Kifeas seem to change your comments more than the British weather. First you both said you did not have enough time and now it is more time than you needed. Although the OXI campaign was going strong for a few months, why did it come as such a surprise for the EU and for the TCs and Turkey. If Denktas was assured long before the vote that you guys would have voted OXI then he could have had an extended holiday.

Well, then I am sad I didn't go to bet my whole property against those that didn't understand what was so obvious months before the referendum. I would have been billionaire now.

The plan was so bad only an idiot could expect that there was even a chance in a million that we would have accepted it.

And by the way, I am not Kifeas, so I don't know what he said. What I say is always consistent.

Do you understand what the term negotiate is Piratis because with those comments it seems that you do not. There are many NO's as well as the YES's that are part and parcel of such negotiations. You and TPap seem to think that walking away after the first or second no is a fair way to deal with these situations. If he is not man enough or skilled enough to negotiate then he should step down and let someone who can do the job properly. We can all say...What else were we supposed to do.

As for you being consistent.....All I can say is that recently you are not.

[Carpe Diem]

All his arguing over 50% power sharing, 28% land ownership, 18% population, etc, etc.

It's all rubbish. The turk and greek cypriots, cannot be partners in anything. To much squabbling, to much resistance to give up land, too much resistance to share power.

Let's do the only sensible thing and come to an agreement based on the realities that we will never again jointly govern Cyprus. Create two indepeden, mutually recognised countries, with some adjustments on territory, a property exchange for people on both sides and be done with it.

These forums, the past 50 years, countless Presidents and negotiators from all over the world are evidence enough that the time has come for Cyprus to let go of this silly dream to some day re-unify.

I really wonder what an accurate survey (referendum?) on both sides to permanent partition would come up with? Partition where the turks retain say 25-26% of the total land, and turk-cypriots give up their property in south cyprus. In return the greek cypriots gain some significant land back and also the turk-cypriot properties in the south, however recognise TRNC as a separate, independent and legally functioning country in the north?

Let me guess...you would get a majority on both sides. If the people want it, get the bl00dy politicians out of it, and give the people what they want