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TRNCs Mountain Flag

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby LENA » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:06 pm

Viewpoint wrote:We are unable to agree unification, why?

Whats the alternative?

Why is division such a bad word? Look at Europe for examples of division as an alternative soluton eg Serbia Montenegro.


I know that unification is not an easy thing. I know that at the moment we are not so able to agree on a solution that will benefit both of us. I know that division happen in Europe as you said.

But I dont accept any alternative solution for my country. We already have the partition...THE ISLAND IS DIVIDED ILEGALLY. I am not accepting to make that legal. That is my island as it is your. Why you want to treat your country as a puzzle toy? Is that how much you love your country? I am sorry but I dont care what other countries have done. I care about mine.

Let me share with you some things from my research back home during East vacation. I talked to several young people from both sides...at ages of 18 to 26. You know what? I saw that we are leading to the unification ... I am so glad that I saw young people telling me there feelings either that was bad for me or good. But soon or later...you we will be united. The only thing that I am sure now ... is that! It will take years but it will happen!

Lets play a little game like I used to do with children. Lets say that you have 2 kids. One boy and one girl. You grow them up together, you gave them the same bread, they slept at the same house, they have been raised by the same parents. But they are so different. One is older than the other, over-weighted and he is male. The other one is short and thin, younger and female. When they grow up, they had a big fight that almost kill each other. So they left from the house, they live alone and away from each other. You as their father, what do you want to do? Keep them away and visit them every now and then or bring them back again to you house. After all they are your kids. I wonder VP...what you will do with your kids?
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Postby LENA » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:16 pm

zan wrote:
DT wrote:The Montenegrans didn't land 40,000 troops in Belgrade and kick out a third of the Serbs from their homes.


Exactly the point that VP is trying to make DT. Ask the same of the GCs that killed ousted and disgraced a whole nation of people. Ask that of our first elected leader and in reference to above ask that of the Croats.


What is that you want Zan? You are trying to make us learn about what GC have done during those years. I am telling you I know a lot...and I dont know those horrible things from TC that might make me believe that are lies. I know those things from GC...and I know them from my mum as well which I trust with my own life.

Do you know the same things for TC? What they have done to GC? What do you want? What is your point? That we have to stuck on those murders?

Life goes on. I know is hard for people that they cry, they lost, they suffer...but LIFE GOES ON. Do you want the same story for your children and grandchildren? Do you want them to suffer as you suffered? Put them into your position ... put your memories as their memories...do you want that? Partition is the way to keep us divided and the way that will keep the hater in our hearts. Is the way that will lead us to another war.
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Postby zan » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:34 pm

LENA wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:We are unable to agree unification, why?

Whats the alternative?

Why is division such a bad word? Look at Europe for examples of division as an alternative soluton eg Serbia Montenegro.


I know that unification is not an easy thing. I know that at the moment we are not so able to agree on a solution that will benefit both of us. I know that division happen in Europe as you said.

But I dont accept any alternative solution for my country. We already have the partition...THE ISLAND IS DIVIDED ILEGALLY. I am not accepting to make that legal. That is my island as it is your. Why you want to treat your country as a puzzle toy? Is that how much you love your country? I am sorry but I dont care what other countries have done. I care about mine.

Let me share with you some things from my research back home during East vacation. I talked to several young people from both sides...at ages of 18 to 26. You know what? I saw that we are leading to the unification ... I am so glad that I saw young people telling me there feelings either that was bad for me or good. But soon or later...you we will be united. The only thing that I am sure now ... is that! It will take years but it will happen!

Lets play a little game like I used to do with children. Lets say that you have 2 kids. One boy and one girl. You grow them up together, you gave them the same bread, they slept at the same house, they have been raised by the same parents. But they are so different. One is older than the other, over-weighted and he is male. The other one is short and thin, younger and female. When they grow up, they had a big fight that almost kill each other. So they left from the house, they live alone and away from each other. You as their father, what do you want to do? Keep them away and visit them every now and then or bring them back again to you house. After all they are your kids. I wonder VP...what you will do with your kids?



Lena

VP and I have never argued with the fact that if all things were equal that we would argue against unification. The fact of the matter is that so much work has to be done in order to get to a point when either of us could see it as being a viable solution. We see every day and more and more is being done to the detriment of unification that common sense says that that is the only option left. As you say the idea that it could happen is many years away and we can only talk for what is going on today. As quickly as you made up your mind, by speaking to a few young people that it is possible, we have come to our conclusion after, in my case, three years of talking to people on both sides. I am more than happy to accept your version of an isolated event that you experienced and am more than happy for it to happen, it is just that my experience tells me different. Miracles can happen though. I am also more than happy for you and people that think like you not to lose your hope because I have seen too many people turn from how you think to toeing the party line that is sure to impose partition on you whether you like it or not.


The problem I have with many that refuse to see the TC part of this is that you guys have no fear of losing your culture and your identity. At most you are losing a house or a piece of land. We are fighting for our very existence here and the term "Cypriot" simply does not cover this. Whether people like it or not there is no "Cypriot" as a single entity. Yes we have many similarities but we also have many unique qualities that say I am a Turkish Cypriot. Nothing can change that and I don't want it to. No one can take away the fact that the Turkish part of my Cypriotness exists. By taking that word and my identity away dose no justice to who and what I am. You can only add to that as in now, I am a British-Turkish- Cypriot. If I move to the US, I will be an American-British-Turkish-Cypriot and so on. You cannot take away but only add.
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Postby LENA » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:22 am

zan wrote:Lena

VP and I have never argued with the fact that if all things were equal that we would argue against unification. The fact of the matter is that so much work has to be done in order to get to a point when either of us could see it as being a viable solution. We see every day and more and more is being done to the detriment of unification that common sense says that that is the only option left. As you say the idea that it could happen is many years away and we can only talk for what is going on today. As quickly as you made up your mind, by speaking to a few young people that it is possible, we have come to our conclusion after, in my case, three years of talking to people on both sides. I am more than happy to accept your version of an isolated event that you experienced and am more than happy for it to happen, it is just that my experience tells me different. Miracles can happen though. I am also more than happy for you and people that think like you not to lose your hope because I have seen too many people turn from how you think to toeing the party line that is sure to impose partition on you whether you like it or not.


The problem I have with many that refuse to see the TC part of this is that you guys have no fear of losing your culture and your identity. At most you are losing a house or a piece of land. We are fighting for our very existence here and the term "Cypriot" simply does not cover this. Whether people like it or not there is no "Cypriot" as a single entity. Yes we have many similarities but we also have many unique qualities that say I am a Turkish Cypriot. Nothing can change that and I don't want it to. No one can take away the fact that the Turkish part of my Cypriotness exists. By taking that word and my identity away dose no justice to who and what I am. You can only add to that as in now, I am a British-Turkish- Cypriot. If I move to the US, I will be an American-British-Turkish-Cypriot and so on. You cannot take away but only add.


No pain, no gain. Zan I agree that there are lots of thing that we need to do. But we have to do them …not sit there and argue because we have to do those things.

You are talking about facts. Well the fact is that GC are more than the TC…that is a fact. What you want us to do…stop getting married, having children and wait for the TC until they become equal with us? Tell me when the TC was equal with GC…and I am only talking in the matter of numbers…TC was a minority in Cyprus since ever

As many years as I have to wait and fight I will sacrifice them but I will not accept the partition…I prefer to stay like that than give up from my country. Because is that how I feel accepting the partition. I am not going to accept the legal division of my country. You can call me too optimistic, dreamer, stupid…anything you want … but that’s how I feel…and since I talk with other compatriots of mine and agree with me…yes I will not change my mind and I will keep dreaming. I usually like to think about the present and what I have at the moment…but I am not going to ignore the future. I will do everything that I can for the best of my country…and trust me I am working on something in my area…If I succeed, I will let you know. But the whole idea of unification, if it will happen one day, we have to work from now. Get along with each other from now. It will be difficult to accept each other one day from one day to the other.

By the way is not the first time that I talk or heart stories and opinion from TC and GC. I lived all my life with GC talking about those things and my dad has lots of TC friends and he is a refugee and he used to invite them home…and he still does since the “borders” opened. But I didn’t pay much attention then. And we have a friendly TC family that live in Potamia…that village has lots of TC. So I had lots of TC around me for years now. But I am talking about young people, the future citizens of Cyprus. People like Shah and some GC friends make me believe that things was more difficult than I was hopping but now my hopes are even more stronger and I believe that one day I might see my dreams come true.

You know what Zan I am Cypriot and in Cyprus we have 3 languages. Greek, Turkish and English. I know two of them…and as Cypriot I decided that I have to learn Turkish as well. That doesn’t mean that I will become Turkish more now than I was before. I don’t change my Cypriotness as you said but I don’t add anything else. I live in UK at the moment and I do speak their language …. That doesn’t add the British part on my nationality, even if I was living here for years. I didn’t born here, I didn’t grow up as British and I will never change the Cypriot part of me…whenever I go. I am sorry but for me there is the Cypriot nation. And I am part of it.
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Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:22 am

Zan is feeding you a line Lena. The last time I read a post from him, he said he doesnt care if the Turkish Cypriot culture disapears into the larger Turkish mainland one because he see's himself as a Turk. This thing about Turkish Cypriot culture being consumed into the greater Greek Cypriot culture is NOT OUR PROBLEM. Its a stupid excuse to keep Greek Cypriots from their homes and ethnically cleanse them.

Debating with Zan is a waste of time - he's a staunch Turkish nationalist and ATCA participant.
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Postby LENA » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:40 am

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:Zan is feeding you a line Lena. The last time I read a post from him, he said he doesnt care if the Turkish Cypriot culture disapears into the larger Turkish mainland one because he see's himself as a Turk. This thing about Turkish Cypriot culture being consumed into the greater Greek Cypriot culture is NOT OUR PROBLEM. Its a stupid excuse to keep Greek Cypriots from their homes and ethnically cleanse them.

Debating with Zan is a waste of time - he's a staunch Turkish nationalist and ATCA participant.


My dear I read a lot in here and especially from old TC members like Zan and VP...I saw worst post than that...and what I keep tell to Zan, VP and Shah is that they dance a lot. One time is like that and the other is opposite...depend on the shoes they wear. But I am glad that I can see TC like T_C, Bir and Kikapu that they can see both sides and what is best for Cyprus and not the Turkey.

But hey... thanks for the advice...its been appreciated!!!
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Postby shahmaran » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:04 am

Well i have been away and there are too many rubbish attempts here to discredit my views for me to even bother replying all, so all i can say is:


Some of you GCs are SO one sided, uber-nationalistic, and so utterly full of shite, it gives me the creeps i tell you!

Leaving years of relentless attempts to kick us out of our own home, followed by numerous other attempts to bring us down with your lies in front of the whole world with the uncountable amounts of web pages designed to spread anti-Turk propaganda's, trying to block everything that is being done in the TRNC or under the name of (including scientific events), you shameless bastards come here and bitch about us putting a bloody flag up on the mountains?!? What makes you think that we have to ask YOUR permission for anything, do you ask us? They are our mountains too no?

If there was really a hell, a lot of you would definitely belong there that's for sure... :roll:

(except Lena coz she is just too naive :lol:)
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Postby zan » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:28 am

LENA wrote:
zan wrote:Lena

VP and I have never argued with the fact that if all things were equal that we would argue against unification. The fact of the matter is that so much work has to be done in order to get to a point when either of us could see it as being a viable solution. We see every day and more and more is being done to the detriment of unification that common sense says that that is the only option left. As you say the idea that it could happen is many years away and we can only talk for what is going on today. As quickly as you made up your mind, by speaking to a few young people that it is possible, we have come to our conclusion after, in my case, three years of talking to people on both sides. I am more than happy to accept your version of an isolated event that you experienced and am more than happy for it to happen, it is just that my experience tells me different. Miracles can happen though. I am also more than happy for you and people that think like you not to lose your hope because I have seen too many people turn from how you think to toeing the party line that is sure to impose partition on you whether you like it or not.


The problem I have with many that refuse to see the TC part of this is that you guys have no fear of losing your culture and your identity. At most you are losing a house or a piece of land. We are fighting for our very existence here and the term "Cypriot" simply does not cover this. Whether people like it or not there is no "Cypriot" as a single entity. Yes we have many similarities but we also have many unique qualities that say I am a Turkish Cypriot. Nothing can change that and I don't want it to. No one can take away the fact that the Turkish part of my Cypriotness exists. By taking that word and my identity away dose no justice to who and what I am. You can only add to that as in now, I am a British-Turkish- Cypriot. If I move to the US, I will be an American-British-Turkish-Cypriot and so on. You cannot take away but only add.


No pain, no gain. Zan I agree that there are lots of thing that we need to do. But we have to do them …not sit there and argue because we have to do those things.

You are talking about facts. Well the fact is that GC are more than the TC…that is a fact. What you want us to do…stop getting married, having children and wait for the TC until they become equal with us? Tell me when the TC was equal with GC…and I am only talking in the matter of numbers…TC was a minority in Cyprus since ever

As many years as I have to wait and fight I will sacrifice them but I will not accept the partition…I prefer to stay like that than give up from my country. Because is that how I feel accepting the partition. I am not going to accept the legal division of my country. You can call me too optimistic, dreamer, stupid…anything you want … but that’s how I feel…and since I talk with other compatriots of mine and agree with me…yes I will not change my mind and I will keep dreaming. I usually like to think about the present and what I have at the moment…but I am not going to ignore the future. I will do everything that I can for the best of my country…and trust me I am working on something in my area…If I succeed, I will let you know. But the whole idea of unification, if it will happen one day, we have to work from now. Get along with each other from now. It will be difficult to accept each other one day from one day to the other.

By the way is not the first time that I talk or heart stories and opinion from TC and GC. I lived all my life with GC talking about those things and my dad has lots of TC friends and he is a refugee and he used to invite them home…and he still does since the “borders” opened. But I didn’t pay much attention then. And we have a friendly TC family that live in Potamia…that village has lots of TC. So I had lots of TC around me for years now. But I am talking about young people, the future citizens of Cyprus. People like Shah and some GC friends make me believe that things was more difficult than I was hopping but now my hopes are even more stronger and I believe that one day I might see my dreams come true.

You know what Zan I am Cypriot and in Cyprus we have 3 languages. Greek, Turkish and English. I know two of them…and as Cypriot I decided that I have to learn Turkish as well. That doesn’t mean that I will become Turkish more now than I was before. I don’t change my Cypriotness as you said but I don’t add anything else. I live in UK at the moment and I do speak their language …. That doesn’t add the British part on my nationality, even if I was living here for years. I didn’t born here, I didn’t grow up as British and I will never change the Cypriot part of me…whenever I go. I am sorry but for me there is the Cypriot nation. And I am part of it.



Lena
I am sorry but you accuse me of not seeing both sides of the story when it is you that are guilty of that fact. You seem to have accepted that the island of Cyprus is a Greek based one and I should just become part of it as a Cypriot. The history of this island is far too complicated for me to do that and as I stated many times before I am fed up of explaining to people that I am not Greek because I come from Cyprus. You are far too eager to put us into a minority status with Greek values. We have been living for nearly half a century as proud Turkish Cypriots and for us to give that up at the toss of a hat is something that is not going to happen. The fact that if events of the 60s did not happen then there would be much more Turkish speaking Cypriots still on the island is a fact that many have tried to deny but I believe that that would have been the case so the numbers of today are a distorted reality that must be addressed. I also take great offence to you saying that I dance to different tunes. There is only two ways that anything will be decided in Cyprus within peaceful means and that is either our proper place within the infrastructure of Cyprus with all the past events catered for or a slow but steady push for recognition of the TRNC/KKTC by us. The other option is war coming from the RoC side. We have no aspirations to take over the whole island but the RoC has and that is the direction that war will come from just like in the 60s.
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Postby LENA » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:49 am

shahmaran wrote:
Lena, get a life because you are incredibly dull, try sticking to the Jokes section dear madam

Some of you GCs are SO one sided, uber-nationalistic, and so utterly full of shite, it gives me the creeps i tell you!

Leaving years of relentless attempts to kick us out of our own home, followed by numerous other attempts to bring us down with your lies in front of the whole world with the uncountable amounts of web pages designed to spread anti-Turk propaganda's, trying to block everything that is being done in the TRNC or under the name of (including scientific events), you shameless bastards come here and bitch about us putting a bloody flag up on the mountains?!? What makes you think that we have to ask YOUR permission for anything, do you ask us? They are our mountains too no?

If there was really a hell, a lot of you would definitely belong there that's for sure... :roll:

(except Lena coz she is just too naive :lol:)


As I never done in my life…I will not ask you my dear Shah what I am going to say, where I am going to post and what generally I will do in my life. Thank you for understanding that.

As you see I am still here…not scare from you or crying in my corner because you called me dull and naive…that is you opinion my dear. And it’s your problem. By the way I will stick around just to see you getting upset…you know I love when men get upset about me or close to me… :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

As for your post…I really enjoyed it. Made me laugh a lot…:lol: Thanks for that.

Look whose talking about nationalism!
Now you share YOUR mountains! How generous!
Kick you out of your own homes…. :lol: :lol: :lol: I just love your posts…keep posting my dear.
You don’t have to ask us about anything or take our permission about anything but we have to do that…we are so shameless….

Shah can you tell me a reason why Turks put the flag in the mountain? Why they spend all that money to do that? By the way try to convince me that it was a really good reason ok?

Oh and this time try to do something better with your compliments, I am not impressed any more from you!

By the way ... Iyi gunler!
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Postby shahmaran » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:01 am

Oh come on lady! Now why would i want to make you upset Lena, you are the most angelic being around here, it would be nothing but criminal!!

Me as the humble creature I can only try to impress you while failing miserably but never the less i shall not give up EVER!

Sanada iyi gunler canimin ici! ;)
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