Cyprus-Forum.com

[bigOz]

Unfortunately, everyone involved in this discussion from "left" to "right" have got the whole issue wrong. Everyone seems to know something during some stage and have their own views but the error is when they are trying to evaluate everything from their own perspective rather than within the whole world politics of the time. Please allow me to styate some facts:

1. Makarios was originally a founder member of EOKA, whose sole aim was the expulsion of Turks from the island and union with Greece.

2. When the republic was declared, he was forced against his wishes, by the British, to form a single republic recognising the existance of Turks. I shall not offend anyone to go into details of how he was forced by the British secret services (recently disclosed on a BBC documentary lasty year), but it did involve some strong evidence concerning his sexual preferences.

3. 1963-1967 EOKA, under the command of general Grivas attacked and destroyed many ethnic Turkish Cypriot villages, burying their inhabitants in mass graves.

4. When Turkish jets bombed Koccina - Mansura region (I believe during 1967) to save the inhabitants of the Turkish villages in the area that included few hundred ethnic Turkish Cypriot students who were dumped by Turkey in that region, it was a big blow to Grivas and Makarios who until then believed Turkey could not intervene.

5. Makarios realised the danger and decided to make a U turn in his political views, for the sake of Cypriot people. This conversion became more and more apparent over the next 5-7 years. Although a founder member, he no longer identified himself with EOKA and started to believe in a united Cyprus Republic. So much so, between 1968 and 1974, he ordered the removal of all border controls and barricades facing the Turkish enclaves, allowing Turkish Cypriots to cross freely into the Greek side.

I remember as a very young boy, I used to ride my bicycle accross the checkpoint into the Greek side and ride round Nicosia with friends. Hence, he was aware that Turkish ethnic minority were no threat.

6. Makarios' changing political views and unwillingness to be a part of Greece gained a lot of support from the Greek Cypriot left parties - especially AKEL. The Greek Cypriots, being on the side of the persecutors rather than the persecuted, quickly embraced the idea of a united Cyprus and support for the left grew tremendously during early 1970s.

In general, because of the freedom they enjoyed Greek Cypriots were more politically educated than the "once bitten - twice shy" Turkish side, where the nationalists had a lot to refer to when claiming it was dangerous to live with the Greek Cypriots.

7. At the time it was the "cold war" era, with USA and Russia posing a constant threat to each other. Cyprus was invaluable to NATO and the West because of its strategic position and closeness to hotspots in Middle East.

8. During 1973 AKEL (the left party) won a lot of the local elections and was on course to win a general election. Flirting with Russia, this was unacceptable to USA. Makarios had to be got rid of and what better than the Greek Junta in Greece (part of NATO) to do it.

9. The Greek junta and mainland Greek military helped EOKA overthrow Makarios to be replaced by the IDIOT Nikos Sampson. The only unlikely scenario (and the unpreffered one) was that Turkey mightinvade - but so what? They were also NATO!

THE REST IS HISTORY MY FRIENDS - You can now go back to the drawing board and evaluate things accordingly... See you all on Monday!

[Nikephoros]

I posted why the National Guard overthrew Makarios. Because he planned to reduce the National Guard to such a low personnel level that even Turkish Cypriots would have had more men in arms than the National Guard. There was dichasmos in the Greek Cypriots community between enosis supporters who respected the National Guard and Grivas and the leftists traitors who manned the paramilitary leftist militas and Epikouri paramilitary force to protect Makarios and his regime.

[askimwos]

Unfortunately, everyone involved in this discussion from "left" to "right" have got the whole issue wrong. Everyone seems to know something during some stage and have their own views but the error is when they are trying to evaluate everything from their own perspective rather than within the whole world politics of the time. Please allow me to styate some facts:

1. Makarios was originally a founder member of EOKA, whose sole aim was the expulsion of Turks from the island and union with Greece.

2. When the republic was declared, he was forced against his wishes, by the British, to form a single republic recognising the existance of Turks. I shall not offend anyone to go into details of how he was forced by the British secret services (recently disclosed on a BBC documentary lasty year), but it did involve some strong evidence concerning his sexual preferences.

3. 1963-1967 EOKA, under the command of general Grivas attacked and destroyed many ethnic Turkish Cypriot villages, burying their inhabitants in mass graves.

4. When Turkish jets bombed Koccina - Mansura region (I believe during 1967) to save the inhabitants of the Turkish villages in the area that included few hundred ethnic Turkish Cypriot students who were dumped by Turkey in that region, it was a big blow to Grivas and Makarios who until then believed Turkey could not intervene.

5. Makarios realised the danger and decided to make a U turn in his political views, for the sake of Cypriot people. This conversion became more and more apparent over the next 5-7 years. Although a founder member, he no longer identified himself with EOKA and started to believe in a united Cyprus Republic. So much so, between 1968 and 1974, he ordered the removal of all border controls and barricades facing the Turkish enclaves, allowing Turkish Cypriots to cross freely into the Greek side.

I remember as a very young boy, I used to ride my bicycle accross the checkpoint into the Greek side and ride round Nicosia with friends. Hence, he was aware that Turkish ethnic minority were no threat.

6. Makarios' changing political views and unwillingness to be a part of Greece gained a lot of support from the Greek Cypriot left parties - especially AKEL. The Greek Cypriots, being on the side of the persecutors rather than the persecuted, quickly embraced the idea of a united Cyprus and support for the left grew tremendously during early 1970s.

In general, because of the freedom they enjoyed Greek Cypriots were more politically educated than the "once bitten - twice shy" Turkish side, where the nationalists had a lot to refer to when claiming it was dangerous to live with the Greek Cypriots.

7. At the time it was the "cold war" era, with USA and Russia posing a constant threat to each other. Cyprus was invaluable to NATO and the West because of its strategic position and closeness to hotspots in Middle East.

8. During 1973 AKEL (the left party) won a lot of the local elections and was on course to win a general election. Flirting with Russia, this was unacceptable to USA. Makarios had to be got rid of and what better than the Greek Junta in Greece (part of NATO) to do it.

9. The Greek junta and mainland Greek military helped EOKA overthrow Makarios to be replaced by the IDIOT Nikos Sampson. The only unlikely scenario (and the unpreffered one) was that Turkey mightinvade - but so what? They were also NATO!

THE REST IS HISTORY MY FRIENDS - You can now go back to the drawing board and evaluate things accordingly... See you all on Monday!

Couldn't agree more.

[askimwos]

I posted why the National Guard overthrew Makarios. Because he planned to reduce the National Guard to such a low personnel level that even Turkish Cypriots would have had more men in arms than the National Guard. There was dichasmos in the Greek Cypriots community between enosis supporters who respected the National Guard and Grivas and the leftists traitors who manned the paramilitary leftist militas and Epikouri paramilitary force to protect Makarios and his regime.

So the leftists were traitors because they wanted to respect the constitution and did not want enosis!!!

[Nikephoros]

So the leftists were traitors because they wanted to respect the constitution and did not want enosis!!!

Yes they were and are traitors. They keep bitching about Greece being responsible for the Turkish invasion! Greece did not tell the leftist idiots and Makarios to sabotage their only viable military institution: the National Guard. Greece did not tell you idiots to never secure diplomatic support and instead have Makarios galavant around the Third World Movement. You cannot blame Greece at the 11th Hour for these things. If you had actually built the kind of military necessary to secure independence from outside forces such as Turkey and if you actually secured diplomatic support, the situation we have today would never exist.

[askimwos]

So the leftists were traitors because they wanted to respect the constitution and did not want enosis!!!

Yes they were and are traitors. They keep bitching about Greece being responsible for the Turkish invasion! Greece did not tell the leftist idiots and Makarios to sabotage their only viable military institution: the National Guard. Greece did not tell you idiots to never secure diplomatic support and instead have Makarios galavant around the Third World Movement. You cannot blame Greece at the 11th Hour for these things. If you had actually built the kind of military necessary to secure independence from outside forces such as Turkey and if you actually secured diplomatic support, the situation we have today would never exist.

Makarios a leftist!!! How retarted can you be?

At least do some research before making your self looking like a clown.

[Nikephoros]

Makarios came to rely on leftists for his political support, since like I said the enosis supporting rightists respected more Grivas than Makarios. Makarios came to rely on the Epikouri and leftists militias who only protected Makarios and leftists; who in turn soiled their panties when it came to fight the Turkish invasion. But the ancestors of these Ethiopian styled militias meant to protect the regime of his holy black robed Makarios have made no cessation in their lies against the true protectors and defenders of the Greek Cypriot nation: the National Guard.

[pappy_sydney]

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bigOz said

1. Makarios was originally a founder member of EOKA, whose sole aim was the expulsion of Turks from the island and union with Greece.

This is nonsense, there was no plan to expell Turks from Cyprus, The Turks would of been a minority on the island in the event of enosis enjoying full citizenship rights. EOKA made sure the Turks were not harmed in any way during the fight against the British, leaflets in Turkish were sent to them to make sure they knew this. Once the British stirred up trouble for their own selfish imperialist reasons than tension was created between the 2 communities. Turkey and Britain both wanted to show the 2 communities couldnt live together eg.
A Turkish terrorist bombed the Turkish Press office in Nicosia, Guenyeli incident, Kemal attaturk residence bombed by a Turkish secret service agent in Thessaloniki

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3. 1963-1967 EOKA, under the command of general Grivas attacked and destroyed many ethnic Turkish Cypriot villages, burying their inhabitants in mass graves.


This is obvious Turkish propaganda, EOKA did not exist in the 60s. If you are referring to Greek Cypriot irregulars yes there were atrocities but there were also atrocities against the Greek Cypriots ( you dont mention TMT or Vulkan ). 100's were killed on both sides during the 60's in intercommunal violence, revenge attacks etc. However 1000's of Greek Cypriots were killed by the Turks within days of the Turkish invasion in 1974. Lets not mention how many have been killed since 1570.

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6. Makarios' changing political views and unwillingness to be a part of Greece gained a lot of support from the Greek Cypriot left parties - especially AKEL. The Greek Cypriots, being on the side of the persecutors rather than the persecuted, quickly embraced the idea of a united Cyprus and support for the left grew tremendously during early 1970s.

Makarios was a realist who believed that an independent Cyprus under the circumstances was the only solution at the time, he still believed in enosis though if it was a viable option. The Greek Cypriots were not the persecutors, again more propaganda to justify the current situation. Remember AKEL wanted enosis too but did not want to identify themselves with the Right wing junta in Greece or to achieve it by violent means. Lots of Cypriots believed Makarios was steering the right course for them.

[humanist]

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Seriously now Nikephoros take this from a NON LEFTIST:

Both the coup and the Invasion in Cyprus were staged and agreed between the Greek Junta-CIA-and Turkey to achieve double Enosis, i.e part of Cyprus to get annexed to Greece and part to Turkey.
What went wrong is that Turkey got more than what was agreed. Famagusta was not in any plan that's why until today it is kept vacant.

The thousands of GC soldiers who tried to fight in 1974 witnessed this treason to all its extend. All you have to do is speak with some of them. Mainland Greek officers even had maps with them showing exactly where the Turks would stop. Soldiers were denied ammunition, reservists were denied to even get guns, heavy weaponry tanks-artillery etc were ordered to hold their fire, critical post conquered by commandos with huge sacrifices were ordered to withdraw. St hilarion castle was captured 3 times do you know that? It was all treason my friend, within a weak every single soldier was abandoning his position and telling everybody "einai ola prodomena"/everything is treasoned.

I really urge you to talk with GC soldiers who did participate in 1974 war...

Pyr this is a story that I have certainly heard of, over and over .... at this stage it is a very highly likely scenario.