Cyprus-Forum.com

[free_cyprus]

there is no cypriot identity there is just what people try to preserve turkish and greek identity feck that for a laugh how stipid can cypriots be i wonder with amazment sometimes..................

[Piratis]

TCs have suffered just as much as the GCs, I wish you would accept that!

Of course I accept that TC suffered, never claimed the opposite.

You have prospered while TCs have been stuck in a time warp without nowhere but Turkey to turn to whilst you constantly blame and punish them for trying to survive when you've never given them no other option. As people have said before "let them rot".

How about the option of returning to legality, and accepting democracy and human rights for all?

There is NO WAY that the TCs would/could of had the chance to even consider unification under Denktashs rule. It was impossible, unthinkable and at worst suicidal. Since we got rid of him now we're facing an equal nightmare with your own facist "president".

I am sorry, but today is 2007 and I can count the TCs that I met that support a truly united Cyprus in the fingers of one hand. TCs supported the Annan partition plan, not unification.

Tpops is blatantly a Turk hater and when the GCs actually advise the TCs in joining them in the RoC it makes me sad that they could even suggest such a thing knowing full well what this man and our history is like. Can you imagine TCs asking you to go live with them with Denktash as president?

Papadopoulos was elected with just a bit more than 50% of the votes. If the 18% of TCs do not like him then in a democracy there is a perfectly legal and democratic way to throw him out of power, and I would have no objection to that. I don't remember asking from you to have as a president somebody that GCs alone voted. TCs returning to RoC would automatically mean new elections.

TCs aren't stupid. We got rid of Denktash, if you were to get rid of Tpop and someone trustworthy were to be your president then I think you would eventually start getting some of the TCs backing the RoC all be it slowly (I say that because I don't think TCs will be enticed to do something so risky unless theres trust which would take a long time to build and Tpop just doesn't have the slightest chance in gaining this from the TCs now). For the time being the fact remains this man had something to do with EOKA and Aktiras, that could be the end of argument right there for TCs, yet he also calls people sympathetic to TCs "Turk lovers", he preaches Hellenism above all else and has even had the audacity to claim that not one TC was killed by the GCs. That alone is enough not to trust him or those who support him. If you can't understand that then there is something seriously wrong with you.

I think you have been reading too much anti-Papadopolos propaganda. The man has his faults, and if you consider that we are currently in war with Turkey I don't think you could expect a pro-Turk president in RoC.
Is Erdogan, Talat or any other of your leaders pro-Greek Cypriot when they support the occupation of Cyprus and the "trnc"?

Papadopoulos is just the latest excuse for Turkey. Cleredes was also supposedly involved in the Akritas plan, why didn't they make the same stories against him? Because he was cooperating for the capitulation of Cyprus?

Denktas was not easy to get rid of, I remember a lot of people wishing he would just die, he survived many heart attacks much to the dismay of alot of the TCs (I feel bad writing that but it is the truth and I heard many people say things along those lines, people were sick to death of Denktash), this is the same Denktash who had to import mainlanders in order to stay in power (Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation), It got to the point where TCs had to print a letter to him on the front page of Kibris newspaper pleading with him to resign...not to mention the massive protests.

And then one day Ankara decided to change and to put on her European disguise and Denctash didn't match with it. So Talat came along, which is basically the same thing. Just another puppet of Ankara.

The TCs have always wanted a better peaceful future but this has been denied to them (without choice) by people with extremist views like Denktas and made 1000X worse by people in RoC government hell bent on "letting them rot" trying to get back at Turkey in the expense of your "compatriots" in the North while pouring fuel up Denktas' already flaming ass. I seriously doubt there is ANY trust left in the RoC government after all this, there is NO WAY that I would personally ever choose to go live in the RoC.

Come on T_C. Don't tell me that the majority of TCs didn't agree with the occupation, with the declaration of "trnc", with our ethnic cleansing and all that.
You know once I though that TCs didn't agree with the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey but they had no other option. Then one day I woke up and realized that this was not the case.

I want there to be peace in Cyprus, and also want GCs to get their properties and 100% humans rights in the whole of Cyprus, however till the RoC government grasps, appreciates and understands the concerns of the TCs then we will be more than happy with the no solution because I nor they believe that the RoC is sparing a serious thought for our (very serious) concerns.

But t_c, this is what YOU one person says. How many TCs do you think agree with you? How many TCs have you heard in here accepting that GCs should have their properties and human rights back? If TCs agreed that nobodies human and democratic rights should be sacrificed things would be much different.

I think the properties issue is being used as a disguise for the fact that Tpop and the rest of the RoC government just want to control the whole island and I believe that the TCs are justified in not wanting that given problems in the past. I'm sure you guys don't see it this way as you are GCs but I suppose you're not suprised I say that because I am a TC. I understand that you say "that was the past" but a part of me judging by RoC governments actions and their views just doesn't believe it. They definately are not worried at all about TCs, it's all about land, control and nothing else, anyone trying to tell me any different I consider trying to take me for a fool because I am not stupid enough to believe Tpop or anyone up there is thinking about the well being of TCs. I am just being honest. I have no problems what so ever with GCs but I do not feel like I can trust their government at all. If they were sincere I think they would of been pleading with the TCs, (begging if needs be) and doing all they could to get them into the Republic instead of playing games and delay tactics with Turkey which prove to me that TCs are not in the slightest interests of the RoC.

T_C, everybody cares most about his own problems. It is not a crime to think about your own problems first. What is a crime is when you act illegally and violate the human rights of others. So you are right if you think GCs care about their own problems first. But at the same time, and this is important, we don't want to violate any of your rights either. If TCs thought in the same way then things would be much better.

And about your concerns, tell me if non of the things bellow, that I suggested many times, would satisfy your concerns:

1) a TC to be the president of RoC at least once every 5 terms and to start the "new RoC" with a TC president.

or, if you misstrust us that much:

2) To start with a federation of mostly autonomous states within EU with the proportional ratio of 18%-82% of land, where the majority of the north state will be TCs and the majority of the south state GCs, but except from this restriction people to be free to move and settle anywhere they like within Cyprus. Then every 10 years to have referenda to ask people if they want to integrate further.

Is there any concern of yours that could possibly not be answered by any of the above? For me it is clear that those that reject even such kind of proposals have no interests in a fair solution but they just use their "concerns" as excuses to gain on our loss.


turkish_cypriot, that was a good post from you and although I don't agree with everything that you said I perfectly understand your perspective. What is unfortunate is that I don't see many TCs that care for unification and accept that a solution can not be one that violates the human rights of people. What I see mostly are people who are hell bent on partition and the only thing they care about is how to excuse their illegal and unfair demands against our human rights and land.

[Piratis]

Absolute cracker of a post turkish_cypriot. Although things have begun to get a little out of hand on the talking front with some on this board, that is exactly what we have all been saying from day one.

I am sorry Zan, but I never saw you posting something like:

I want there to be peace in Cyprus, and also want GCs to get their properties and 100% humans rights in the whole of Cyprus

On the contrary all your posts are made to excuse the human rights violations and illegalities against us.

[zan]

Absolute cracker of a post turkish_cypriot. Although things have begun to get a little out of hand on the talking front with some on this board, that is exactly what we have all been saying from day one.

I am sorry Zan, but I never saw you posting something like:

I want there to be peace in Cyprus, and also want GCs to get their properties and 100% humans rights in the whole of Cyprus

On the contrary all your posts are made to excuse the human rights violations and illegalities against us.

Oh! Give it a break Piratis. You remind me of a friend of mine that finally got into a golf club, that he was refused into several times, and then he became such a snob. The term human rights did not exist for you until you got into the EU and now you stick your nose in the air as if it has been part of your make up all the time. The club you belong to is not the be all and end all of the civilized world. Every week I see examples of what is waiting just around the corner for my people that you have no shame in promoting. There is a B&Q on Seven Sisters road where hordes of eastern European men sit in the car park waiting for a man in a van to come along and use them as tax free cheap labor to line their own pockets. So please stop all this bullshit about our troubles will be over as soon as we subscribe to your club. I have the opportunity to correct these wrongs at ground level and I will not go into this with my eyes open knowing full well what is waiting for us. You guys have filled your pockets while we have sat and waited for some morsel to come to us but nothing..... Sure some of the top people got paid to sit around and do nothing simply because there was nothing to do but the majority of people, like my aunts, uncles, cousins and one case in particular, my brother in-laws brother drove his truck to destruction to feed his family. Once the truck was gone, so was his lively hood. He is now digging up roads at the age of 53. So this Human rights shit you are throwing at us like some golden Challis is just full of shit.

[kalahari]

Piratis

Once again we have a Greek Cypriot bemoaning his lot, and going on about the human rights violations and illegalities against themselves.

Having spoken to a number of Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus, I came to the conclusion some time ago that the TCs want the Turks there as much as the GCs do. The only reason they fear them leaving is because of a minority of rabid GCs who are still looking for revenge and Hellenism.

I can understand the TCs' point of view.

But while people like you, Piratis, continually dance round your same old totem of "I want my stuff back" nothing will move any further forward – not until you lighten up a bit – or leave this mortal coil.

Yes, there is a very real possibility that the Cyprus problem will only pass on with the generation that experienced it and continue to stoke it.

As far as individuals with violated human rights go, your lot is not so bad, Piratis, let's face it. It's about keeping things in perspective.

There is a certain amount of water you will just have to let slide under the bridge – and you need to accept this. So many Cypriots from both sides of the wall have accepted this. And good for them.

Turkish Cypriots have an infinitely worse time of it than any Greek Cypriot, and this too is a fate imposed upon them by the Turks and their disgraceful TC politician puppets (of which Denktash was the prime example and deserved to be hung from a lamp-post by his countrymen).

Of course Talat is of the same mould – as you quite rightly point out, Ankara would not have it any other way.

Is Papadopoulos as bad? There is a strong pro-Hellenic lobby in the south, and Makarios is still revered as a saviour – so he must pay lip service to that in order to survive as a politician.

Which makes him fatally flawed and corrupt – but hey, that's the territory. You show me a politician who isn't flawed and corrupt. Why do you think Gandhi and Mandela were so widely admired?

For my money, the solution has to come out of the left field. Somebody with no axe to grind for the pro-Hellenics or the Turks. We could be looking at a foreigner leading the Cypriot nation into true independence.

The Turks have to leave before anything can be solved – and they should take their "settlers" with them.

The next stage might well then be a divided Cyprus, with UN troops in place to reassure both sides that the atrocities of the past will not, can not, flare up again. Antagonists, known hate-mongers, would have to be jailed or deported for the sake of the peace.

Once the trust has been re-established, then and only then could the island be re-integrated, and people could start to get their stuff back.

Oh, and any Brits, Russians or Germans etc in the north that have bought stolen property should get their asses kicked out immediately. They're the worst of the lot, trying to hide their greed behind a fake naivety.

[Piratis]

Zan I told you before. You fight us we fight you. Give us back our rights, take back yours. You don't give us back our rights? We will continue to fight for them. Simple?

As far as individuals with violated human rights go, your lot is not so bad, Piratis, let's face it. It's about keeping things in perspective.

And what is the perspective of a British in this case? The ones that would come here and moan because their dog was poisoned or they had to pay 1 pound more for something.

What would be your reaction if you were screwed over and when you complained they told you "in Afghanistan is worst so shut the fuck up"?

[free_cyprus]

Piratis
what fecking human rights are you talking about in cyprus who has any human rights in cyprus as long as they do as they are told you hve human rights you call that human rights.............. if we had any fecking human rights in cyprus today we would not have turkish flags flying in cyprus we would not have greek flags flying in cyprus we would not have turkish history being taught in cyprus we would not have greek history being taught in cyprus................................................................. and we wouldn not have people we elect to represent us to go to bed with greece and turkey that tell them waht to do and how to do it and your talking about human rights feking hell men where the feck you coming from

[kalahari]

Piratis

Moderator? I sense very little moderation in your tone.

Would I moan if my dog was poisoned? Well, yes I would. I think most reasonably civilised people would. Would I moan if I had to pay £1 more for something? That all depends on what it was.

If I were to be screwed over tomorrow, then yes I would complain. On the other hand, as a man in his late forties I have been "screwed over" many times in my life. I will not bore you with the details. Unfortunately, you will continue to bore everybody on this forum with your details, ad nauseum.

Move on, Piratis, and stop stirring it. Peace will never come until people like you pack it in.

You have over 6,000 posts to your name. How much positive energy has come out of those posts? 6,000 posts of poison. Take a look at yourself, man. You still have some life in your body, for your sake, start living it.

To make my position quite clear – I am not a Turk sympathiser, although I have little doubt you are thinking that I am, if not a Turkish infiltrator posing as British, as our old friend Malaka once accused me.

I equally, I cannot sympathise with you while you rattle your sabre.

But then, I do not suppose for a moment that you actually care what I think. After all, I am a Brit – and therefore I do not count in your version of democracy.

Oh that you could wind the clock back to 1974. And if you could? What then would you do, Piratis? Assassinate Makarios? Stand in Nico's place, but stop Makarios slipping out of the back door?

How would you have stopped the wheels that Makarios set in motion? How far would you have gone to protect the land you moan about now? How would you have stopped the Turkish fleet from setting sail?

And while you consider this, with the advantage of 30 years of hindsight, ask yourself what any other man, TC or GC would have done that Makarios could not have side-stepped.

[Piratis]

The wheels were set in motion by the British who instead of giving Cypriots the choice of decolonization that they wanted ( http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm ) they instead forced on us a problematic constitution with several undemocratic and unfair parameters.

Now you seriously expect us to accept something even worst? Get serious.

Peace is good, but there are things higher than peace that they worth fighting for, and thats what we will do either it suits some or not. What good is peace if it comes on the expense of your human rights, democracy and the sovereignty of your country? During WWII everybody should have just surrendered to the Nazis and have peace then. Why they did not?

[kalahari]

Where do you live, Piratis? I cannot believe you live in Cyprus – not the Cyprus I have been to, anyway. You talk as if war is the only answer left to you.

The wheels were set in motion by the British who instead of giving Cypriots the choice of decolonization that they wanted ( http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm ) they instead forced on us a problematic constitution with several undemocratic and unfair parameters.

There was very little unfair or undemocratic about the Cypriot consitution as far as I can make out. Please put me right on this.

The problem was that Makarios genuinely believed he, as a leader of an independent state, could push Henry Kissinger around. He was an idiot. He also wanted to cede "your human rights, democracy and the sovereignty of your country" over to a Greek Military junta.

You will fight, will you? Whether that suits some or not.

Well, long live the mad democracy of Piratis. Long live the lunatic human rights of a man who is prepared to plunge a bouyant, successful, thriving civilised country back into the jaws of war, just so that he can stand in the same back yard he stood in as a boy. Is this the higher thing than peace to which you refer? As bad as the Turkish army of occupation is, as disgraceful as it is, as abhorrent as it is, it is no Nazi Third Reich.

That you compare your comfortable, complacent and healthy lot with that of the jewish holocaust brings shame upon you and all those who you claim to represent.

Be ashamed, you shallow man.