Cyprus-Forum.com

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Zan how can you believe such BULLSHIT written by that Rachel Salomen girl and not feel ashamed. Its blatent propaganda!! Do you have no shame??

Again - show me in your arsenal of credible websites about Cyprus where it says that there was a genocide against Turkish Cypriots - im still waiting.

Zan, its all good posting a random pieces from that Hellenic Empire blog.spot - but what are you trying to prove to me. What in that article backs up your outrageous and false claims about Cyprus?? It seems the only websites that do so are ones written by the 'TRNC" office! lol

By the way - did you actually READ the main narrative of the Cyprus Conflict report??

[Piratis]

A thousand years ago the Turks were somewhere in Mongolia living in caves and eating roots. We had no problem with the Turks back then.

Although i realise youre trying to simply insult us, a bit of history at this time is probably needed. A 1000 years ago approx, we were nowhere near mongolia, but actually in 1091 fighting at the battle of manzikert. second, although mongolians were close cousins of the first turkic tribes, we had a separate language to them, and ultimately to make a long story very brief we started moving towards the middle east because of them and a number of other factors which finally lead to the islamisation of these tribes who had very superior fighting capabalities to the arabs in the region. Which is why ultimately the caliph of baghdad recruited them as millitary slaves and by the tenth century islam was firmly rooted among the turks despite them maintaining their racial identity and culture (separate from the arabs that is). Luckily for us, by the 11 century the Seljuks a turkish dynasty had reveresed the role of us being millitary slaves and become sultans in baghdad and by the end of their dynasty from central asia to egypt, at quite remarkable speed, was larqely ruled by turks, something that was considered phenomenonal within the muslim world. If you wish me to continue with what we were doing a thousand years ago, i will be more than happy to continue piratis. Happy easter btw.

Why continue? The only important things in Turkish history is how the Turks butchered others and stole their land. Only bloodthirsty barbarians would be excited by hearing such stories. So please tell those stories to those that like them, not to us. We experience the turkish barbarity first hand and thats more than enough.

And since apparently the Turks can not become civilized and they continue trying to take from us our land, our only option is to fight them until we send them from where they came from.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Once again...


ZAN SHOW ME A CREDIBLE AND BALANCED INFORMATION SOURCE THAT SAYS THERE WAS A GENOCIDE COMMITED AGAINST TURKISH CYPRIOTS IN THE LAST HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY OR ANY OTHER TIME IN CYPRUS????

[zan]

A thousand years ago the Turks were somewhere in Mongolia living in caves and eating roots. We had no problem with the Turks back then.

Although i realise youre trying to simply insult us, a bit of history at this time is probably needed. A 1000 years ago approx, we were nowhere near mongolia, but actually in 1091 fighting at the battle of manzikert. second, although mongolians were close cousins of the first turkic tribes, we had a separate language to them, and ultimately to make a long story very brief we started moving towards the middle east because of them and a number of other factors which finally lead to the islamisation of these tribes who had very superior fighting capabalities to the arabs in the region. Which is why ultimately the caliph of baghdad recruited them as millitary slaves and by the tenth century islam was firmly rooted among the turks despite them maintaining their racial identity and culture (separate from the arabs that is). Luckily for us, by the 11 century the Seljuks a turkish dynasty had reveresed the role of us being millitary slaves and become sultans in baghdad and by the end of their dynasty from central asia to egypt, at quite remarkable speed, was larqely ruled by turks, something that was considered phenomenonal within the muslim world. If you wish me to continue with what we were doing a thousand years ago, i will be more than happy to continue piratis. Happy easter btw.

Why continue? The only important things in Turkish history is how the Turks butchered others and stole their land. Only bloodthirsty barbarians would be excited by hearing such stories. So please tell those stories to those that like them, not to us. We experience the turkish barbarity first hand and thats more than enough.

And since apparently the Turks can not become civilized and they continue trying to take from us our land, our only option is to fight them until we send them from where they came from.

And of course the Helenic Empire was built on love and repect for the original settlers that have somehow disappeared from the face of the earth Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Murataga]

Piratis wrote-

I have noticed that the typical TCs (Zan, VP Murtaga etc) have gone into a barrage of one of the same old propaganda to excuse their illegalities and crimes against Greek Cypriots.

Basically they selectively take the one side of a story that didn't last even for a decade, they exaggerate it as much as possible, they spice it up with lots of lies, and they keep talking and talking about their distorted version of that tiny part of history with a single aim: To argue that Greek Cypriots deserve to punished with illegalities and crimes against them due to what happened in the past.

If you notice the threads that Zan, Viewpoint and some others start, thats always the theme.

So basically there was an intercommunal conflict several decades ago that lasted for 5 years were both sides harmed each each other and each side had some 100s of victims. These Typical TCs of our forum take only one side of that story (the GC aggression, not the TC aggression. The TC victims, not the GC victims. The GC mistakes, not the TC mistakes, etc) exaggerate it to the maximum (e.g. by talking for hours about each casualty they had), they spice it up with several lies created by the Turkish propaganda, and thats all they talk about.

So OK, the sum of all that is that TCs suffered for a few years (a drop in the ocean compared to the suffering they caused and continue to cause to us) and had some 100s of casualties (again a drop in the ocean compared to the 10s of thousands of GCs they butchered).

So what is the bill they demand from us to pay for what we did to them? According to them the 32 years of occupation and the 200.000 refugees are not enough. They want to use that drop in the ocean events to keep punishing as in eternity.

What they don't know however, is that nothing can last for an eternity. The balance of power will one day shift. And since the TCs in here seem unwilling to discuss any peaceful solution based on human rights for all and democracy, and they only care to discuss about punishments, I thought it is a good idea to start discussing about what the punishment for TCs should be.

I think the bill to TCs should be fair, and we should not charge the TCs more than what they charge us. We already know that the "bill" for a decade of suffering and some 100s of victims is at least 6000 dead, 200.000 ethnically cleansed and 32 years of occupation. I say at least because according to the TCs what we paid so far is not enough, and we have to pay even more. So maybe they should enlighten us as to what the exact "bill" we have to pay is, so it would be easier for us to calculate the bill they have to pay using the same rate, to be fair.

And here is a small sample of what the bill to TCs will include.
Lets start from the beginning:

Quote:
Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.


Quote:
During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


The bill will also include 3 centuries of oppression, over 3 decades of occupation, 100s of victims during the intercommunal conflict, the ethnic cleansing of 200.000 people, 6000 dead during the invasion etc.

So roughly I would say that the bill TCs should pay, based on the rate they charge us, should be at least 100 times more expensive from what they force us to pay.

Those that insist that what is fair is to punish GCs based on selectively choosing tiny, one sided distorted versions of history, they should be prepared because sooner or later the day will come that it will be their turn to pay the full bill plus the tips.

The quite unfortunate title of the thread given by Piratis reveals the mind set that we the TCs have been fighting against since 1963: “How can the Turks be punished, how can they be ejected, how can they be removed, what should we charge them, and etc….”. These destructive, rather than constructive, and racist arguments further deepen tensions and alleviate distrust among the two communities. However, one must accept these outbursts with some tolerance, for some of these individuals have been presented with the side of the Cyprus problem they have not been told. To observe the awe of these individuals at the site of documents specifically chosen from those of non-TC authorship have been worth my efforts to search them. Fortunately, some with common sense and analytical mind sets choose to question themselves and what they have been thought and unfortunately some choose to deny, swear, cuss and threaten (and I have come to observe that this last one is the favorite of the individual of concern) rather than come up with anything making sense.

To his deepest frustration and panic against arguments and evidence presented opposing his version of the Cyprus conflict, this individual has desperately chosen to take a path with a dead end: dig up thousands of years of past to seek some comfort for his ego. To base present claims on first occupation is ludicrous, historistic, romantic and certain to create discord. There have been large movements in the world, some by emigration, others by conquest, and they have to be accepted as facts of the contemporary world. Like the German and the Scandinavian peoples who wrested England from the Celtics, like the American colonists, or like the Scots and English who settled North Ireland, the Ottoman Turks colonized their conquered land. Not to mention that the land belonged to the Venetians and the Ottomans fought the Venetians for Cyprus not Gcs. The accusations that the Ottomans slaughtered GCs for fun is nothing but senseless myth from ultranationalist Greek websites. Those who follow my posts will observe that I carefully select my references from those with international and scientific backgrounds and GCs, not Turkish. Although there are also many credible Turkish sources, I know that they will stamped automatically as "propaganda". Hence, I again present from a book by an author that has written his piece in favor of the GC side of the Cyprus problem (from The Rise and Fall of the Cyprus Republic by Kyriacos C. Markides, Yale University Press). I ask all to read with an open heart and a clear conscience:

“The Turkish Cypriot conquest can be thought of as a turning point in the evolution of Cypriot society. Its effects were tantamount to a true revolution, but a revolution imposed from the outside. The conquest brought about three fundamental changes in the Cypriot social structure whose effects are still deeply felt: (1) the destruction of European feudalism (mainly by Franks and Venetians) (2) the restoration of the Greek Orthodox church to its former position of dominance, and (3) the settlement on Cyprus of a sizable Turkish minority.

The Turks once they conquered Cyprus, either killed or expelled the European nobles. The feudal system was abolished and land was distributed to the former serfs, who were Orthodox Christians, and to the newly arrived Muslim settlers. The Turkish conquest, furthermore, created ethnic heterogeneity. Turkish migrants settled in Cyprus, and gradually a sizeable Turkish community was formed, eventually composing 18 percent of the total population.

Last, and the most significant, the Turkish conquest restored the Greek Orthodox church to its former princely status and endowed it with unprecedented secular and spiritual powers. The authority vacuum created by the abolition of the aristocratic order was filled by the church, which became the most central institution in Greek Cypriot society. The Turks recognized only Orthodoxy as the official non-Muslim religion of the island, and they persecuted the Catholics. In short, the Turks reversed the situation that existed under feudalism. In addition, the sultan vested the church with special administrative privileges, such as collecting state taxes and officially representing the Orthodox Greek s in Istanbul. The archbishop was elevated to the status of Ethnarc, national leader or political spokesman for the Greek population. Consequently, the church of Cyprus became under Turkish rule the most authoritative and powerful institution on the island. It has been said that during the eighteenth century the archbishop’s political authority was almost equal, if not superior, t that of the Turkish Governor (Ref. below)”

Claude D. Cobham, Exerpta Cypria (Cambridge, Eng.: Cambridge University Press, 1908), pp. 458-59

It would certainly be one-sided and erroneous to claim that everything that the Ottomans have done was just and correct and I have no intention of doing so. Ironically, it was the Ottoman dynasty that brought the Turkish people of Anatolia to the brink of annihilation against the attacks of Greeks and European nations during the begining of the 20th century with their fossilized and backwarded rule. However, the discussion of who ruled who many centuries ago should be evaluated within the context of the times which they occurred. Empires waged war with each other for land and wealth. Greeks have done this aswell. Some succeeded, and some did not at different times. Nothing more, nothing less. Do not confuse this with the recent history of the Cyprus conflict which initiated when TCs were muscled out of the RoC to achieve subjection of Cyprus to another state rather than its independence.

[Sotos]

I think the Turks should be removed from Cyprus. They killed many 10000s Cypriots already. They had the whole island under occupation of 3 centuries and now again for 3 decades. They kill kill kill and steal steal steal! We suffered so much from them I think we had enough. They will never change and stop the crimes. When we have th opportunity we should throw them all out from our island. Thats the only way for peace to come to Cyprus. Turks and peace are two things that don't go together. I know best, my home is occupied by those fucking thieves

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

And of course the Helenic Empire was built on love and repect for the original settlers that have somehow disappeared from the face of the earth Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Zan your stuck for an answer and being a vague cunt again lol.

Answer my embolded question please!! - then if you can handle it (which im sure you cant) we will try and see how good your knowledge on the ancient Greek world is.

[zan]

I think the Turks should be removed from Cyprus. They killed many 10000s Cypriots already. They had the whole island under occupation of 3 centuries and now again for 3 decades. They kill kill kill and steal steal steal! We suffered so much from them I think we had enough. They will never change and stop the crimes. When we have th opportunity we should throw them all out from our island. Thats the only way for peace to come to Cyprus. Turks and peace are two things that don't go together. I know best, my home is occupied by those fucking thieves

Now this I can appreciate because we can see who you really are. The other underhanded attempts and making us feel as if you want us is what I cant stand.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

It would certainly be one-sided and erroneous to claim that everything that the Ottomans have done was just and correct and I have no intention of doing so. Ironically, it was the Ottoman dynasty that brought the Turkish people of Anatolia to the brink of annihilation against the attacks of Greeks and European nations during the begining of the 20th century with their fossilized and backwarded rule. However, the discussion of who ruled who many centuries ago should be evaluated within the context of the times which they occurred. Empires waged war with each other for land and wealth. Greeks have done this aswell. Some succeeded, and some did not at different times. Nothing more, nothing less. Do not confuse this with the recent history of the Cyprus conflict which initiated when TCs were muscled out of the RoC to achieve subjection of Cyprus to another state rather than its independence.

It would be VERY easy to say that the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey was another act of Turkish conquest in modern times - also like The Republic of Hatay. TC's mainly muscled themselves out of the RoC and Turkey's invasion was a modern form of colonial expansion.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Zan answer my question!