Cyprus-Forum.com

[bigOz]

Let me tell you something, TRNC does exist and it WILL be recognised soon if fools like you and Epsilon are in the mistaken belief that Europe or any other economic power really gives a fuck about Cyprus' 50 year old on going problem. My problem is, I shall miss the look on your faces when that day comes!

GCs had lost a lot in the past because of their false belief that things would not happen because other nations will not let it or protect them. Prior to 1974 invasion, GC fanatics used to taunt the TCs singing songs that incorporated words like "I have been waiting but you have not showed up...", and making jokes cartoons about it. The biggest GC national guard military camp in Famagusta had it written in huge letters: "IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS, COME AND GET IT!"

So what happened? Turkey invaded, the same camp is now used by the TC military and the writing has been changed to "I HAVE THE BALLS, I'VE COME AND I'VE GOT IT!". And when you wake up every morning in Nicosia, you see the image of the TRNC flag on the mountains staring at you - recognised or not! Carry on with your over confident belief that TRNC will never be recognised and refuse all proposals for a federal solution and you'll soon get another message that will shock you!

We are very much aware of Turkey's size, manpower, and military expenditure, etc, so when push goes to shove I think it will be Turkey that will have the most surprises as she is the one that underestimates the RoC.

Most wars don't last longer than a month and the RoC can muster around 100,000 men, have stockpiles of modern firepower including the ability to strike deep into southern Turkey (and they would be stupid if they didn’t), and have every reason to fight to the end as they have nowhere else to go anyway.

On the other hand, Turkey’s fragile political nature coupled with the shock of fierce resistance and that of the fight spilling onto Turkish soil with civilian casualties could make the Turkish regime capitulate from embarrassment and scurry to the negotiating table as they will most likely be expecting a re-run of July 1974!

GR! Please do not interpret my post as threatening or a reflection of what I personally wish to happen. I respect your confidence in your own military, and it is a good value for anyone who has faith in his people. But, I cannot take such suicidal beliefs too seriously. What we feel or think of our military strengths or numbers is of no significance - discussing them here will prove nothing either!

All I can say that, as long as you are in the mistaken beliefs expressed in such posts, the Turkish army will be made more welcome in the North then ever. And there will never be a solution in terms of "one island one nation" policy. That I believe, some GCs prefer to have - so I do not agree that all GCs think like Epsilon...

[Diogenes]

Dear Rain,

thanks for your kind words, and for keeping the discussion into a civilized and polite level (unlike some others...).

Now, regarding your points:

The view that those that "believed that they are from the Mainland Turkey or Greece have left the Island during the British take over of the Island", as you said, is nothing but a theory. It at least contradicts the several census the British took in the 1900's, which identifies Greeks and Turks.

Of course there might have been Islamic structures prior the Turks, etc. We had wars with Arabs too, so it doesn't strike me as a surprise...

Finally, regarding the book you mentioned, i looked for it and i can't find it anywhere, so i will be a bit reserved on my comments on it. But, if i take your words on what it suggests, in other words that "Smyrna Greeks were Christian Turks..." , etc, then i find the author's claim completely ridiculus and out of touch from reality. Or at least pure propaganda, not counting real evidence. For example, was my aunt (recently died at 95) who came from Smyrna in the 1922, after the disaster there, a Turk??? I don't think so.
(Please do give me the author's name, though, if you have it. I would like to look the book more closely before i get into more deep critisism)

I do not doubt that there could be large number of Greek speaking Turks, just as there were Greek speaking Romans, etc, because those were for a long part of history greek territories, but that does not prove that no real Greeks lived there. The historical evidence, monuments, names, etc, are overwhelming.

Also, regarding the alphabet analogy, as you said "it could be", but i find it very unlikely, since there are NO evidence to back it up.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas, knowing I do not access the computer at the weekends you are putting a very brave fight against my posts few days old rather than reply to them at the time. That speaks volumes to me!

bigOz, not knowing who Kifeas is, thinks that I have the slightest fear in answering back to his ranting in this forum since the day he arrived here! He is such an arrogant, who, just because he read a couple of books, believes he knows everything regarding the issue of Cyprus, whereas in reality he only has a partial and mostly one-sided understanding! Unfortunately, I have limited time -and this only during the weekends, otherwise I would have easily ridiculed most of his posts!

Let me tell you something, TRNC does exist and it WILL be recognised soon if fools like you and Epsilon are in the mistaken belief that Europe or any other economic power really gives a fuck about Cyprus' 50 year old on going problem. My problem is, I shall miss the look on your faces when that day comes!

Let me tell you something, “TRNC” will never be recognized as long as we are alive! Only over our dead bodies will it ever become recognized, simply because we have locked this option out as far as the EU is concerned! We have locked it out once and for good, with the treaty of Cyprus' accession into the EU, and it can only be unlocked with our signature! Only! Go and read the treaty of accession, and if you have the minimum understanding of how the EU functions, then you will realize what I am talking about! Now, because the possibility of“TRNC” non-recognition by the EU, or by any one individual member of it, has been secured with a legal international agreement such as the treaty of accession, the possibility of “TRNC” recognition by the UN has also been secularly waved! If anyone here believes that the UN SC or the GA will ever adopt a resolution contrary to the EU aqui, when two permanent members of the SC, are also EU members (France and the UK,) then he is a fool of the highest magnitude! Furthermore, there is at least another one UN SC permanent member, China, which doesn’t even want to hear of such a scenario, just because of it own issues with Taiwan.

In a nutshell, unless the sun rises from the west and sets in the east, forget about any essential recognition of an entity called “TRNC!” Perhaps some third world Islamic countries may opt for such a thing, should they wish to forget about their relationship with the EU and /or China!

GCs had lost a lot in the past because of their false belief that things would not happen because other nations will not let it or protect them.

Do not look at what the GCs have lost in the past and for what reasons! Look only, and cry, for what your community has lost, and what it will lose in the near future, just because of arrogant and misguided attitudes like yours! Just look and cry (like I do,) my arrogant friend, for the fact that your community is disappearing from Cyprus as a cultural entity! In a few years, when more TCs will emigrate, and more Anatolian settlers from Turkey will take their place, your identity as a TC will have no place and no basis of reference! You will only exist in the neighborhoods of north London and nowhere else! Cry for what you have lost, and leave the GCs aside, for their existence as a cultural entity is not threatened by anyone!

[Diogenes]

Dear Kifeas,

nicely said, and thanks for keeping the discussion into a civilized level (unlike some others...). But, as i said in a previous post, sometimes it's a waste of time talking to BigOz, with arguments, evidence, etc...He never responds to those things. He only presents emotional cries, he is provocative, and speaks only his side of the story. No analysis what-so-ever....

Last time, he was claiming that TC's have ancestors the Chirokitians !! Can you believe that?????? Well, i thought that i heard everything, but...
And we explain to him, 3-4 times, that that claim is historically impossible, but he wouldn't get it.

Just to add on your point, as i mentioned last time, TC's cannot sustain independence, since Turkey will never allow them true autonomy.
So, they are way behind in the discussion when they are trying to use that as an argument against the GC's, in order to scare them. The Turks know that, the Greeks know that, everybody know there is no true independent state for the TC's, except themselves.

You said: "GCs aside, for their existence as a cultural entity is not threatened by anyone!"

I would agree with the "entity", but not so much the "cultural". GC's are quite culturally corrapted too, as many-many times they truly forget that they are Greeks. But again, Greeks from Greeks do that too in, perhaps, even higher degrees. Look at the aniversary calendars: No Greek today (and it's a total SHAME) celebrates, or knows about, the Battle of Marathon, but they do celebrate the most anti-Greek people ever, the 3 Hierarchs (John, Gregorios, Basilios). We honor almost everything Hebraic, Jewish, etc (under the mask of "Christian"), but nothing of our own TRUE history. I am glad to see, though, that lately (especially young GC's) are distancing themselves from the church, religion, etc, as they realized the hypocricy of it.

[bigOz]

Kifeas, knowing I do not access the computer at the weekends you are putting a very brave fight against my posts few days old rather than reply to them at the time. That speaks volumes to me!

bigOz, not knowing who Kifeas is, thinks that I have the slightest fear in answering back to his ranting in this forum since the day he arrived here! He is such an arrogant, who, just because he read a couple of books, believes he knows everything regarding the issue of Cyprus, whereas in reality he only has a partial and mostly one-sided understanding! Unfortunately, I have limited time -and this only during the weekends, otherwise I would have easily ridiculed most of his posts!

Let me tell you something, TRNC does exist and it WILL be recognised soon if fools like you and Epsilon are in the mistaken belief that Europe or any other economic power really gives a fuck about Cyprus' 50 year old on going problem. My problem is, I shall miss the look on your faces when that day comes!

Let me tell you something, “TRNC” will never be recognized as long as we are alive! Only over our dead bodies will it ever become recognized, simply because we have locked this option out as far as the EU is concerned! We have locked it out once and for good, with the treaty of Cyprus' accession into the EU, and it can only be unlocked with our signature! Only! Go and read the treaty of accession, and if you have the minimum understanding of how the EU functions, then you will realize what I am talking about! Now, because the possibility of“TRNC” non-recognition by the EU, or by any one individual member of it, has been secured with a legal international agreement such as the treaty of accession, the possibility of “TRNC” recognition by the UN has also been secularly waved! If anyone here believes that the UN SC or the GA will ever adopt a resolution contrary to the EU aqui, when two permanent members of the SC, are also EU members (France and the UK,) then he is a fool of the highest magnitude! Furthermore, there is at least another one UN SC permanent member, China, which doesn’t even want to hear of such a scenario, just because of it own issues with Taiwan.

In a nutshell, unless the sun rises from the west and sets in the east, forget about any essential recognition of an entity called “TRNC!” Perhaps some third world Islamic countries may opt for such a thing, should they wish to forget about their relationship with the EU and /or China!

GCs had lost a lot in the past because of their false belief that things would not happen because other nations will not let it or protect them.

Do not look at what the GCs have lost in the past and for what reasons! Look only, and cry, for what your community has lost, and what it will lose in the near future, just because of arrogant and misguided attitudes like yours! Just look and cry (like I do,) my arrogant friend, for the fact that your community is disappearing from Cyprus as a cultural entity! In a few years, when more TCs will emigrate, and more Anatolian settlers from Turkey will take their place, your identity as a TC will have no place and no basis of reference! You will only exist in the neighborhoods of north London and nowhere else! Cry for what you have lost, and leave the GCs aside, for their existence as a cultural entity is not threatened by anyone!

Kifeas! bigOz doesnt give a toss who the hell anyone under an avatar with a user name in a forum is? From what I see in your posts there is not much to know about you or your knowledge, so we'll pass on that one.

For the same reasons mentioned above - your flawed claim that I may have read couple of books is total nonsense! What do you know about me to make such a bold (and stupid) statement? Shall we start listing here, the books we have both read and see who has read more? THE ONLY ONE CRYING ARE THE LIKES OF YOU WHO ALWAYS RETORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS TO MAKE BELIEVE THEIR POINT IS MORE VALID!

I do not chat shit like most do and always support my claims with quotes from dependable sources - something well observed by many others in this forum! So making such silly comments will not make your arguments more credible!

TRNC is there and exists over the dead bodies of many from both sides. International recognition is a different matter - you carry on being in a state of denial and see how far it will take you. AND who cares about EU or what Europe might think? Who died and made them Gods? Or is your knowledge in world politics so poor this is the best argument you can come out with?

How many countries does it take to recognise a state to be a country? What is your definition of a "third world country"? Do you classify all Muslim states as "third countries"? What makes you so sure that TRNC will never be recognised as a country, if GCs persist in refusing a federal solution proposed by the UN?

For your information, below are the requirements for the recognition of a state as a country:

1. Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).

2. Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.

3. Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.

4. Has the power of social engineering, such as education.

5. Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.

6. Has a government which provides public services and police power.

7. Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.

8. Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.

Any fool can see that TRNC has all the necessary ingredients for the first 7 conditions, but the last one, which is not exactly impossible, even if the recognising ones are "third world countries" as you like to put it.

Try answering my questions above and have good look at the criteria for recognising a state as a country and see just how sorry your "emotion filled" argument is!

I CHALLENGE YOU TO REDICULE ANY OF MY POSTS! AND I PROMISE TO MAKE YOU THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS FORUM!

[DT.]

[quote="

bigOzFor your information, below are the requirements for the recognition of a state as a country:

1. Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).

2. Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.

3. Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.

4. Has the power of social engineering, such as education.

5. Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.

6. Has a government which provides public services and police power.

7. Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.

8. Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.

Any fool can see that TRNC has all the necessary ingredients for the first 7 conditions, but the last one, which is not exactly impossible, even if the recognising ones are "third world countries" as you like to put it.

Try answering my questions above and have good look at the criteria for recognising a state as a country and see just how sorry your "emotion filled" argument is!

I CHALLENGE YOU TO REDICULE ANY OF MY POSTS! AND I PROMISE TO MAKE YOU THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS FORUM! [img]http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6131/yapmaabino0.gif[/img

][/quote]

ahem...No 7...no other country has [power over the country's territory?? Ahem once more Mr 40,000 foreign troops gauranteeing your "property"

and No 1 is not right for you either "Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK). "

overall you are 5 out of 8 which isn't too bad....you can probably qualify as an official town.

[bigOz]

[quote="

bigOzFor your information, below are the requirements for the recognition of a state as a country:

1. Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).

2. Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.

3. Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.

4. Has the power of social engineering, such as education.

5. Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.

6. Has a government which provides public services and police power.

7. Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.

8. Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.

Any fool can see that TRNC has all the necessary ingredients for the first 7 conditions, but the last one, which is not exactly impossible, even if the recognising ones are "third world countries" as you like to put it.

Try answering my questions above and have good look at the criteria for recognising a state as a country and see just how sorry your "emotion filled" argument is!

I CHALLENGE YOU TO REDICULE ANY OF MY POSTS! AND I PROMISE TO MAKE YOU THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS FORUM! [img]http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6131/yapmaabino0.gif[/img

]

ahem...No 7...no other country has [power over the country's territory?? Ahem once more Mr 40,000 foreign troops gauranteeing your "property"

and No 1 is not right for you either "Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK). "

overall you are 5 out of 8 which isn't too bad....you can probably qualify as an official town.

I am eternally grateful for your generosity DT!

However you are wrongggg again! TRNC boundaries including its airspace and coast are internationally recognised and are under TRNC control! You are confusing the recognition of TRNC with that of its boundaries I am afraid - an easy mistake I guess! But try telling that to all the aircraft travelling through our airspace and reporting to ERCAN ATC, and all the maps of the world Atlases showing TRNC boundaries...

You are also wrong about point 7. The whoile of Europe and the rest of the world are aware that TRNC is a democratic self-governing state! They have elections where they are even able to vote againts a party that supports partitions and vote for a party that supports unified Cyprus and subsequent withdrawal of Turkish troops.

They are so free that they could aven vote to join EU against Denktash and Turkey's wishes. I did not see any of the 40,000 Turkish troops taking up arms against the TCs in either of above scenarios - did you? That being said, who else has any power over the area controlled by the TRNC?

So I guess we are back to 7 out of 8 and, in my books that is "at the third stroke it will be five... to TRNC"

[zan]

[Diogenes]

BigOz told Kifeas:

"I CHALLENGE YOU TO REDICULE ANY OF MY POSTS! AND I PROMISE TO MAKE YOU THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS FORUM!"

The tragic irony here is that BigOz ridicules himself with his posts, and he didn't realized that yet...

The only laughing stock of this forum is YOU BigOz, so wake up...
(Thanks for entertaining us, we love you...)

[bigOz]

BigOz told Kifeas:

"I CHALLENGE YOU TO REDICULE ANY OF MY POSTS! AND I PROMISE TO MAKE YOU THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS FORUM!"

The tragic irony here is that BigOz ridicules himself with his posts, and he didn't realized that yet...

The only laughing stock of this forum is YOU BigOz, so wake up...
(Thanks for entertaining us, we love you...)

It is a shame they removed my new post dedicated to you yesterday. IT PROVED BEYOND DOUBT WHAT A SENILE OLD FOOL YOU ARE!

You have clearly confused me with someone else and started meaningless attacks. YOU HAVE ALREADY MADE A LAUGHING STOCK OF YOURSELF SO PLEASE GIVE IT A BREAK!

This is what your original post said yesterday:

it's a waste of time talking to BigOz, with arguments, evidence, etc...He never responds to those things. He only presents emotional cries, he is provocative, and speaks only his side of the story. No analysis what-so-ever....

Last time, he was claiming that TC's have ancestors the Chirokitians !! Can you believe that?????? Well, i thought that i heard everything, but...
And we explain to him, 3-4 times, that that claim is historically impossible, but he wouldn't get it.

I never speak without analysis or quotes and never express my own emotions as such. I always respond with a quote from a reliable source that is nor GC neither TC.

I NEVER CLAIMED ANYTHING ABOUT CHIROKITIANS AND YOU CERTAINLY NEVER EXPLAINED ANYTHING TO ME IN ANY POST! Can you show where we had these conversations?

The above clearly demonstrates who is a waste of time and a fool. Just stop ridiculing yourself because that is what happens when you mess with bigOz!