Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Thanx Miltiades am prepared for the thrushing......

[Viewpoint]

Whats the bottom line? neither side can force the other to do anything and therefore one side has to show the other that a united Cyprus is better than what we have to today. Which side do you think that should be? You are the ones peomoting we are all Cypriots then you have to persuade your government to back you and start acting accordingly, that woudl go some way to putting at rest TC concerns and fears helping to understand that a future united will be better than one divided which to TCs looks like the only way to go taking into account the GC stance.

[humanist]

Sorry VP you have convinced me that you have a victim mentality and there is nothing that I need to do. There are more than two communities in cyprus however there are two that are in conflict the greek speaking and the turkish speaking community. Neither happy with the current situation on the Island. The responsibility is for both communities to ensure they enter into fruitful discussions for a solution to the problem that would be beneficial to both peoples and not the leaderships of either. As you said either side has to show the other that a united Cyprus is better than what we have today. That implies that turkish speaking cypriots are not happy with what we have on the Island today.
Therefore it would mean that the July 8th agreement needs to be honoured by both sides and to begin negotiations asap, so that we can make some changes to the cureent staus quo which as you said above anything different to what we have today will be better.

I am not a politician not do I want to ever become one, because like those few great leaders they all got murdered. I like my life. But as far as I can see a united cyprus will mean that turkish speaking cypriots will enjoy the benefits of living in a recognised EU state sharing the resources and economic wealth of a free trading EU partner and it will mean that there are no refugees on the island of cyprus.

Hopefully on the bigger picture it will mean that ther is no military on the Island hence freedom. It will also mean that the money's used to support the national guard will hopefully be spent in other areas that will benefit all cypriots.

[Viewpoint]

humanist

Sorry VP you have convinced me that you have a victim mentality and there is nothing that I need to do.

Why do you not have to do anything? please clarify a bit further cant really say ı understand this mentality.

There are more than two communities in cyprus however there are two that are in conflict the greek speaking and the turkish speaking community. Neither happy with the current situation on the Island. The responsibility is for both communities to ensure they enter into fruitful discussions for a solution to the problem that would be beneficial to both peoples and not the leaderships of either. As you said either side has to show the other that a united Cyprus is better than what we have today. That implies that turkish speaking cypriots are not happy with what we have on the Island today.

I agree that both sides leadership appear on the surface to be dissatisfied with the current situation, the people appear to display one thing but the politicians they elect do other things that do not encourage cooperation or unity.
I still feel the emphasisis on the GCs as the recognized part of Cyprus to take the initiative and bring the TCs out of the grasp of Turkey, if they do not realize that their current policies create the opposite effect therefore alienating TCs we will not progress. You do not turn away the hand that feeds you (Turkey) unless you can fend for yourself (economic independence).

Therefore it would mean that the July 8th agreement needs to be honoured by both sides and to begin negotiations asap, so that we can make some changes to the cureent staus quo which as you said above anything different to what we have today will be better.

I agree but the timing to tassos to start has raised a lot of suspician and has again served to prove that his intentions are far from sincere towards TCs.

I am not a politician not do I want to ever become one, because like those few great leaders they all got murdered. I like my life. But as far as I can see a united cyprus will mean that turkish speaking cypriots will enjoy the benefits of living in a recognised EU state sharing the resources and economic wealth of a free trading EU partner and it will mean that there are no refugees on the island of cyprus.

Hopefully on the bigger picture it will mean that ther is no military on the Island hence freedom. It will also mean that the money's used to support the national guard will hopefully be spent in other areas that will benefit all cypriots.

We can enjoy those benefits by moving south yet there doesnt seem to be a mass exodus of the TRNC people have to see and sense that the benefits will be real and beneficial to all. Whats the road map?

[humanist]

VP, in my first sentence I meant to say there is nothing I need to do to change that, individuals take responsibility for changing their circumastances, that is at least my belief.

Secondly, I think it is not only the leadership on both sides that appear disatisfied, I think it is also the eople, I am sure you guys hate being economically isolated and our refugees and inclduding me of non refugee status hate the fact that I do not have the choice to move and reside freely within my country.

On your coment re Greek speaking Cypriot government assisting to bring the turkish speaking cyp's out of the grasp of Turkey, it is difficult to achieve this if Talat is not willing to sit in negotiations. Now I appreciate that Papadopoulos did not initially want to do so and that is wrong. Meeting is not by any means recognising the trnc. To this end Papadopoulos in my view was wrong but now he has made it right by asking to meet. Remember two wrongs do not make a right. If Talat now on ego and principle does not meet because three years ago papadopoulos did not want to meet with him, nothing will change. They need to meet and speak about how can we make this work? The sticking point is military on the Island, turkish speaking cypriot fears of violence and discrimination and refugees. I am sure that if we trully wanted unification for our Island we can come up with innovative ways to work around those issues.

Personally I believe there needs to be two states in Cyprus and for debates sake North/ South with a federal government. Both state and federal governement to have equal representation of all ethnic groups in cyprus, the federal governement ought to encourage through scholarships people of various ethnic groups to undertae political studes with view to sitting on governement. To this end I will argue that the two states remain the land size they currently occupy including the town of Varosha.

I toattally agree for absolute demilitarisation of the Island, with solution to the Cyprus problem, Turkeys induction to EU will be the following step. To this end there will be no need for military presence on the Island. Europe will protect its states in time of need.

You are right there isn't a huge exodus, because the political mood in cyrus is still one fused with hostility on both sides. However give it a couple of more years and there will be. Especially if the RoC offers financial assistance to those turkish speaking cypriots who wish to reclaim their properties in the south. the problem of course with this as with greek speaking cypriots, the ones that have an attachment to the land have either died or soon will pass on and their children who were may be in the teens, would not be interested to go back to places they do not have any familiarity with.

The one area that I will lay fault on papadopoulos is that he needs to be more active in receiving church land to re-house those turkish speaking cypiots in the north currently occupying refugee property upon solution. My understanding is that the Church of cyprus owns a lot of land in the north. This land ought to be given to the fedral state of cyprus in case of solution to be used as i mentioned earlier. to this end it allows the turkish speaking cypriots who do not wish to move tothe south for various reasons to stay in the north. Where it is hoped that they will be a majority or at least a high minority, having said that in a few years after uniifcation the young will move everywher to get jobs and there goes majority/ minority. That is a good thing I believe. But then I believe that there should not be a them and us in Cyprus,

Lastly some of the policies developed by the RoC I believe have benefited some turkish speaking cypriots. For example health care provisons and employment opportunities, EU passports etc.


In response to your coment you cannot urn away from the hand that feeds you, yes you are correct at this moment you do not have economic independence to be able to support yourselves, however under unification you will join the European markets under the new Cyprus government identity however that will look like republic of cyprus or United States of Cyprus or whatever we will call this new country of ours. On this point I wish to say that I have sent correspondence to the RoC asking that the government provide tax incentives for turkish speaking business people move to the south and therefore benefit from the trade with eu and international sphere. However, that can also be done if these companies stay in the north but operate under the RoC something that your leadership may not allow.

Anyway I am heading off now. I hope we can continue this fruitful discussion at a later point.

[Viewpoint]

humanist

VP, in my first sentence I meant to say there is nothing I need to do to change that, individuals take responsibility for changing their circumastances, that is at least my belief.

So if GCs re-elect Tasos then the people are happy with the progress he has made on the Cyprus issue over the past 5 years.

Secondly, I think it is not only the leadership on both sides that appear disatisfied, I think it is also the eople, I am sure you guys hate being economically isolated and our refugees and inclduding me of non refugee status hate the fact that I do not have the choice to move and reside freely within my country.

Thats why we are here to see if uniting will be more beneficial than staying divided. The advantages and disadvantages which outweigh the other.

On your coment re Greek speaking Cypriot government assisting to bring the turkish speaking cyp's out of the grasp of Turkey, it is difficult to achieve this if Talat is not willing to sit in negotiations.

Please you have to acknowledge he has been waiting for 3 years and always declared his rediness to meet/talk.

Now I appreciate that Papadopoulos did not initially want to do so and that is wrong. Meeting is not by any means recognising the trnc. To this end Papadopoulos in my view was wrong but now he has made it right by asking to meet. Remember two wrongs do not make a right If Talat now on ego and principle does not meet because three years ago papadopoulos did not want to meet with him, nothing will change. They need to meet and speak about how can we make this work?

Why now do you think? wouldnt you question his motives?

The sticking point is military on the Island, turkish speaking cypriot fears of violence and discrimination and refugees. I am sure that if we trully wanted unification for our Island we can come up with innovative ways to work around those issues.

I agree but talks should not be used to block or delay any positive moves about to be taken by the EU.

Personally I believe there needs to be two states in Cyprus and for debates sake North/ South with a federal government. Both state and federal governement to have equal representation of all ethnic groups in cyprus, the federal governement ought to encourage through scholarships people of various ethnic groups to undertae political studes with view to sitting on governement. To this end I will argue that the two states remain the land size they currently occupy including the town of Varosha.

I agree. Try persuading GCs and see the result.

I toattally agree for absolute demilitarisation of the Island, with solution to the Cyprus problem, Turkeys induction to EU will be the following step. To this end there will be no need for military presence on the Island. Europe will protect its states in time of need.

I agree.

You are right there isn't a huge exodus, because the political mood in cyrus is still one fused with hostility on both sides. However give it a couple of more years and there will be.

Totally disagree.

Especially if the RoC offers financial assistance to those turkish speaking cypriots who wish to reclaim their properties in the south. the problem of course with this as with greek speaking cypriots, the ones that have an attachment to the land have either died or soon will pass on and their children who were may be in the teens, would not be interested to go back to places they do not have any familiarity with.

They would never take such steps.

In response to your coment you cannot urn away from the hand that feeds you, yes you are correct at this moment you do not have economic independence to be able to support yourselves, however under unification you will join the European markets under the new Cyprus government identity however that will look like republic of cyprus or United States of Cyprus or whatever we will call this new country of ours. On this point I wish to say that I have sent correspondence to the RoC asking that the government provide tax incentives for turkish speaking business people move to the south and therefore benefit from the trade with eu and international sphere. However, that can also be done if these companies stay in the north but operate under the RoC something that your leadership may not allow

Without economic independence we cannot tell Turkey to go away and cannot bank on the EU market to keep its word in supporting us they are not very good a keeping their word as we have found out the hard way.

[humanist]

VP .... I don't know why now and I certainly don't know the motive. However, I say better now than in another 32 years.

I am not sure what positive moves you refer too above in relation to EU.


Good to see you agree on demilitarisation of the Island, Turkey though may not agree. It's been a battle to get her troops to move back from Ledra Street, a step that does not benefit Turkish Speaking Cypriot business along the strip. Let alone all of her troops.

You can disagree on my point of exodus of turkish speaking cypriots from Cyprus, but I do not make the things I read up, they come from Turkish Speaking Cypriot writters and schollars. All I can say is I thank the internet as I no longer have to rely on what my parents told me or what others say but I can google searches and get information to assist me in making an informed decision.

I believe that if we decided as an Island nation what we want and if we aim for a unified Cyprus that the RoC will take that step forward to economically assist those turkish speaking cypriots to reclaim their properties in the south. The fact that those properties have been protected for so many years and that it is illegal to sell them goes to show me that there would be a willingness to do that.

I choose not to coment on your last line in relation to economic independence as I have no more to say than what I have said above.

[Pyrpolizer]

For the Gcs the No1 issue in the Cyprus problem is propertries. When Talat and Turkey do NOT WANT to duscuss anything that has to do with properties, there is absolutely no reason to discuss. We are not interested for a solution that will only load us a "bela".