Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

@lupus

I really fail to see your point.
I don't agree all moments in history are written with blood. History was also mans landing on moon for example.
Some turns in history are made with struggles and some of the struggles have blood. Even the struggle of workers to earn the right to work only for 8 hours instead from the rise of sun to sundown.

So please clarify what you want to discuss.

[free_cyprus]

lupusdiavoli
fisrt of all an active mind like mine can never be bored secondly cyprus identity is up the spout in terms of no one really knows what the feck they are they are told they are greeks they nod their heads and wave greek flags they are told they are turks they nod their heads and wave turkish flags .................... they never question anything, as for me i have always been free even though i have come across those who wanted me to hate i cannot hate i cannot speak for one side i speak for the whole as i see it they speak for their halfs thats another story i do not buy that story.................. today cyprus is less then one million people and yet it has the biggest army in the world per head combined on both sides of the illligaly devided cyprus.................. cyprus is also filled with greek and turkish flags my question is simple what the feck are they doing in cyprus ................. thirdly all the media that is goverment own continue in propaganda in devide and rule of cyprus be it t v radio stations and newswpapers................not only is this active in cyprus but this policy is active all over the world where there is cypriots regardless what language they speak i rather stand alone as persona none grata then be one of them as the saying goes litera scripta mane

[humanist]

Michalis said

Chrysostomos-referring to everyone as the helenism of Cyprus? This man is sometimes sick he thinks he is the queen of Cyprus

.

Michalis ......... He is the Queen of Cyprus, in drag :)

What is it about these old farts that just don't want to let go of the motherland. Why are we not mature enough to accept and embrace our own unique cypriot identity. Cyprus is no longer and probably has never been helenic. it has been a mixture of maronites, turkish speakers adn greek speaker not to mention English speakers adn other groups.

[lupusdiavoli]

Even landing on moon was no blondless. The vallistic missiles employed for the journey were plans based on the Germans V sery missiles during the WW II invented by Dr Verner Von Brown the father of rocketry (SS officer and later NASA). Not to mention the lifes lost during the decades in the effort to conquer the moon.

History itself is the history of endless fight. The struggle of workers to earn their rights was not blodless either. A whole theory, I mean Marxism employed violence and fight as an essential element in the terms of social classes struggles to allege the need for revolution.

free_cyprus

You were the one who murmured even being an "active mind". Let's say that your argument on the identity issue is valid. Does it rum for the whole planet. Because all the people whatever they are or not, they are told or brought up in terms of some identity.

You have to define the nuclear elements of what an identity is. That is eg. identity is that.... After finding this equation you should test your alleged identity of being a Cypriot to see whether it satisfies those elements.

How can u speak for the whole if you are simply a part. Can the monad determine the whole? OK. I can see that the latter sounds difficult. After all it is considered to be a philosophical problem. Just to show though the paradox of some of your arguments. But an active mind like yours will not hesitate I recon.

I agree. There are people who question nothing. What can yoi not understand about Cyprus. You have those on the one hand who believe they are Turkish and those on the other who feel that they are Greeks. There are also those like you who declare themselfs Cypriots. Is it a matter of flag? The issue is in terms of selfdetermination. You cannot stop people from this.

Even the communism tried and failed. Think of those who honestly believe their entire life that they are simply Soviet people. Where r they now? The national identity prevail at the end whether this I found of my taste or not.

OK Cyprus was cought in this struggle between Turkey and Greece. You want the people to reinvent themselves in a Cypriot manner. This homo Cyprianus is something vague to me. As if before the Cyprus State Turkish or Cypriot there were no people here with a past. If your point is that they should forget about their origin and try to live together is something more straight. The experiment in former Gugoslavia doesnot tell something to you? It is fine analogy u know.

Well I cannot but agree with the argument of policy and whatever goes along with it. But policy and politics dominate history from the begining of time. You cannot annul this. Unless you deny history. Believe me history has lots of people unwanted or persona non grata as you said. History does not care. Policy doesn' t care either. Sometimes employs arguments like yours when there is some need to service. Marxism wanted communism that is a society without classes so it turned against identities of national origin and after a while failed. Just to add even more pages...

of history written in blood.

Pity it was. Reality it is.

[humanist]

Lupus said,

How can u speak for the whole if you are simply a part

Lupus I would like to explore this notion a little further with you if possible. On a philosophcal not political level.

Is it not possible that the part can speak for the whole as it is part of that whole, therefore it's experiences will be that of the whole? ie if we are all part of the great whole that is called God/Universe are we not experiencing ourselves as the God part that has chosen life on this planet?

[pappy_sydney]

free_cyprus wrote:
im a realist not someone who lives in fantasy like most cypriots do thinking they are greeks and turks and that their roots go back to turkey and greece.....................


are you a greek or turk cypriot? you are the most confused person if you believe there is a separate cypriot ethnicity...greek cypriots are ethnically culturally historically greeks or hellenes and turk cypriots are turks ethnically for the most part. this difference is the only way we can move forward as one country....greeks to respect turkish identity and turks to respect greek identity. thats why we greek cypriots use cyprus flag as national flag and greek flag as ethnic flag....we are proud of both....this cypriot identity is as fake as the soviet or yugoslav one...look what happened to both of them....get a life and stop promoting your fake agenda.................we cypriots can live together knowing that cypriots can be either greek or turkish or armenian or watever...after all they did this for hundreds of years...........

[Viewpoint]

Happy Fools Day eoka.

[lupusdiavoli]

humanist,

I do not know whether you had it in mind but your argument echoes thoughts of St. Augustine one of the greatest of catholic church. He was much influenced by ancient christian and grecoroman writers.

To simplify your argument: if my hand feels the pain, where the hand is the part, the whole that is the body realises the pain also. How does this sounds? Let us test it.

The critical word used by you was that of "....experiences..." On my analogy above the hand experiences the pain. Does this mean that the other hand experiences the pain too? Obviously no. It is the center of conciousness after processing which realises the situation of pain.
So unless you have something else to propose there is one common center, that is consiousness able to perceive what's going on on the part, to supervise and draw concepts from experience.

I cannot see how the part, the single person belongs to the whole in that way. Can u identify a single universal consiousness? Then how can u explain that a part of the whole suffers pain generated by other parts?

If u have 100 people in one room. The same experience shall be interpretated in different ways through the different consiousness of each one in the room. Some will be similar but some totally oposite. Look for instance Cyprus experience and the different readings of reality or history...

You have to be able to identify the part being simoultaneously the whole to prove that part can perceive the reality of the whole. Through the adventure of ideas there are indeed wholistic views who support this. Such ideas elaborate from the late greco-roman antiquity and the mystics as called. They came up with complex systems of thoughts to support such ideas. The well known analogy in maths is that the infinitive origins from the monad and each number is part of the whole universe of numbers so what is perceived by monad runs is perceived from the rest too.

But humans are not numbers. It is the need to explore human way of thinking and unless you prefer theology and god/universe like ideas as "humanist" the starting point remains the human.

Let me put it otherwise. Being a humanist you rather believe in humanity. That is the whole sum of humans? Or iis it the idea beyond humans? There both philosophical problems u know. Each one with different set of results. And how can u show that an idea really exists? It took hundred of pages for Plato, the greeks feel so proud of him, a master mind I have to admit, to support his idealistic views. He failed but his beliefs still exist around. I imagine you could easily agree with him on the existence of ideas, particularly that of humanity. The opposite to serve my role is the argument that humanity is just but an artificial term with no existence at all.

[free_cyprus]

pappy_sydney

you bought the idea you are greek or a turk dont sell it to me on the grounds of brainwashed and excepted. you think im confused becouse i put forth an argument that argues the very idea that a person does not belong to the greater of the language one speaks example speaking turkish or greek does not make one turkish or greek but people like you do not have the brains enough to even question this. you have made us hellenic greeks and you have made us turks, without even askign the question is it possible we are neither and we have become to speak these two language through invasion and occupation

[lupusdiavoli]

So what language did u speak before?
Who were the first Cypriots? Those of the palaiolithic period? Can u freeze history?
Who invade when?
Who said that identity is only defined by language?