Cyprus-Forum.com

[karma]

I have spend a lot of time in Turkey in the past 38 years,and I was married to a Turkish woman for 7 years,so I know a thing or two about the Turkish society and culture. One thing I can assure you,it is a very complex and very fractured society,approaching dangerous levels of dicotomy and double standards...The social fabric is continually streched between the minority city-dwelling Westernised elite and their protectors,the military,and the poorly educated,religious, and nationalistically brainwashed majority who live in small towns and the rural areas. This is the product of Ataturk's topdown reforms over a relatively short period,and the remnants of the authoritative and fatalistic Ottoman mentality. Nothing is black and white in Turkey. I get continually surprised by the goodness and generocity of the spirit of the rural people,who can turn on you in an instant if you put a wrong foot on their cherished and inflexible sensibilities,usually religious, nationalistic,or moralistic kind.Most parts of the country is a dangerous forest where even someone as well versed in their culture and tradition as myself can get into serious trouble...To avoid serious trouble in Turkey one must never question the existance of God,the infallability of Ataturk's life and reforms,and the assumed superiority of Turkishness...In other words,if you are an intellectual who believes in doubting and testing every belief or tradition,and if you are not a Turkish nationalist,your life will be very difficult in Turkey.The difficulty is doubly increased because fanatically adverse reaction can come from all quarters,including the so-called westernised city elite...You are literally walking on eggshells every time you step foot in Turkey. Life in Turkey is not good for one's individuality or sense of self...It is almost impossible to be true to yourself if you are not one of the flock...

U forgot something, it is the unique country on earth where the poor vote for the rightist and the rich for the leftist parties
Can any1 explain me this??

[BirKibrisli]

I have spend a lot of time in Turkey in the past 38 years,and I was married to a Turkish woman for 7 years,so I know a thing or two about the Turkish society and culture. One thing I can assure you,it is a very complex and very fractured society,approaching dangerous levels of dicotomy and double standards...The social fabric is continually streched between the minority city-dwelling Westernised elite and their protectors,the military,and the poorly educated,religious, and nationalistically brainwashed majority who live in small towns and the rural areas. This is the product of Ataturk's topdown reforms over a relatively short period,and the remnants of the authoritative and fatalistic Ottoman mentality. Nothing is black and white in Turkey. I get continually surprised by the goodness and generocity of the spirit of the rural people,who can turn on you in an instant if you put a wrong foot on their cherished and inflexible sensibilities,usually religious, nationalistic,or moralistic kind.Most parts of the country is a dangerous forest where even someone as well versed in their culture and tradition as myself can get into serious trouble...To avoid serious trouble in Turkey one must never question the existance of God,the infallability of Ataturk's life and reforms,and the assumed superiority of Turkishness...In other words,if you are an intellectual who believes in doubting and testing every belief or tradition,and if you are not a Turkish nationalist,your life will be very difficult in Turkey.The difficulty is doubly increased because fanatically adverse reaction can come from all quarters,including the so-called westernised city elite...You are literally walking on eggshells every time you step foot in Turkey. Life in Turkey is not good for one's individuality or sense of self...It is almost impossible to be true to yourself if you are not one of the flock...

U forgot something, it is the unique country on earth where the poor vote for the rightist and the rich for the leftist parties
Can any1 explain me this??

I will try...The poor vote for the rightist parties because they are ill educated and easily led by the empty promises those parties dish out.
Sometimes they dish out more than empty promises,like food and heating coal or similar essentials.

The rich vote for the leftist parties to assuage their guilty consciences.
They know they are not rich by legitimate means,because in Turkey capitalism means "who can screw who harder without getting caught!!!"

[cypezokyli]

U forgot something, it is the unique country on earth where the poor vote for the rightist and the rich for the leftist parties
Can any1 explain me this??

well the story is more or less like this:
the turkish army tried to destroy communism in the 80 with the last and most significant coup. in order to achieve that they decided to use islam to counter balance the communist un-ethik.
with the collapse of the soviet union the left was in practise eliminated.
just like other places in the middle east, in the absemce of a left the poor turned to islam.

now they are afraid that the islamist are trying to attack the secularist state... which is rediculous actually bc 1. the rise of islam was their creation 2. erdogan will not attack the secular state 3. turkey is not as secular as it likes to believe it is.


moreover , the party system in turkey is a client-based system. people vote for them who promises to them access to public funds / contracts etc. dont epect too much ideology in their decision. besides , there is no real left in turkey for people to vote for.

[karma]

U forgot something, it is the unique country on earth where the poor vote for the rightist and the rich for the leftist parties
Can any1 explain me this??

well the story is more or less like this:
the turkish army tried to destroy communism in the 80 with the last and most significant coup. in order to achieve that they decided to use islam to counter balance the communist un-ethik.
with the collapse of the soviet union the left was in practise eliminated.
just like other places in the middle east, in the absemce of a left the poor turned to islam.

now they are afraid that the islamist are trying to attack the secularist state... which is rediculous actually bc 1. the rise of islam was their creation 2. erdogan will not attack the secular state 3. turkey is not as secular as it likes to believe it is.


moreover , the party system in turkey is a client-based system. people vote for them who promises to them access to public funds / contracts etc. dont epect too much ideology in their decision. besides , there is no real left in turkey for people to vote for.

thx cype, reasonable explanation, I remember many people voted for Tansu coz she was dressing nice..
As for the left in Turkey, it reminds me the movie ''my left foot''

[Kikapu]

I remember many people voted for Tansu coz she was dressing nice..

.....and half of America voted for George Bush, twice, because of his intellectual excellence.

[miltiades]

Ask ZAN , he knows a great deal about Turkey , the new modern world he says !!!

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

just a swift scan through your bullshit post, ARSEHOLE, says nothing but the fact that you have never stepped foot in Turkey

I have never stepped foot in America either but its society has been well documented to the point where you can get a feel for its social makeup. Same goes with Turkey too.

its weird that you talk about racism while blaming Turkey for having a Nazi mentality, you are such an utter fucking moron its actually funny

Not only me that is likening Turkey to a Nazi state. The whole Turkey-trying-to-get-into-the-EU thing is making people look into Turkish society and its rise of 'ultra-nationalism and neo-ottoman ideals' (not my words but someone who wrote an article in The Guardian newspaper last week Monday) is beginning to stand out. Your previous post about people not liking Ataturks ideologies should leave Turkey is just a fine example. You can throw words about and call me a moron but im sure most sensible people with common sense, who read your facist post, would switch such a label onto you. Whats funny is that you, like a few other Turks in this forum, are so indenial about being brainwashed when the examples of Turkish brainwashing has been well documented by people such as Birkibrisli being an example.

Birkibrisli has done a great job in depicting the reality here but i can assure you that its not half as bad as he makes it out to be...

Yeah, if your a nationalist Turk - it must be great fun.

[seleucus Nicator]

moreover , the party system in turkey is a client-based system. people vote for them who promises to them access to public funds / contracts etc. dont epect too much ideology in their decision. besides , there is no real left in turkey for people to vote for.

The client-based system is also working in Greece the clients (voters) go to the politicians asking personal favors (mostly to get a job as a public servant)
I think this is common ottoman tradition (like baksheesh)

[karma]

moreover , the party system in turkey is a client-based system. people vote for them who promises to them access to public funds / contracts etc. dont epect too much ideology in their decision. besides , there is no real left in turkey for people to vote for.

The client-based system is also working in Greece the clients (voters) go to the politicians asking personal favors (mostly to get a job as a public servant)
I think this is common ottoman tradition (like baksheesh)

it is more rushvet than baksheesh...in Greece , it is colour-based system..''the blue kids'' and ''the green kids''

[seleucus Nicator]

moreover , the party system in turkey is a client-based system. people vote for them who promises to them access to public funds / contracts etc. dont epect too much ideology in their decision. besides , there is no real left in turkey for people to vote for.

The client-based system is also working in Greece the clients (voters) go to the politicians asking personal favors (mostly to get a job as a public servant)
I think this is common ottoman tradition (like baksheesh)

it is more rushvet than baksheesh...in Greece , it is colour-based system..''the blue kids'' and ''the green kids''

Not only the blue and the green kids but also the area that you are coming from or the family .This is the reason that many Athenians travel in the ancestry area to vote because there they have more close contact with the politicians and the provincial caciques .
The problem for the parties are the people that don't have nothing to gain personally (like me ) and expecting some improvement to their life from general policies .These people are undetermined (about 600000 in Greece) and ... they are leaving one party for the other .