Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

French parliament recently passed a resolution that calls the imprisonment of a person that simply states that he/she disagrees that the Armenian deaths in 1915 was a genocide...

No Murataga it was not for imprisonment. It was for prosecution.And not for keeping a personal opinion but for trying to pass it pto others. Do you know why? because exactly the same law exists in France for those who deny publicly the Jewish holocaust.

So once again do you understand why those laws passed? Do you understand they passed because those who deny those things are offending terribly those who survived the genocide?

Just to give you an analogy: In Cyprus someone denying the massacre at Tochni and propagandising for it. Should that someone be let do it within his rights of "freedom of speech"?

[free_cyprus]

Simon
all i ask that cyprus should be left alone to self determin e themselves without greece or turkey but we seem to have both of them in cyprus right now is that soo wrong for me to ask of my birthplace my cyprus and my people..................... i do not and never will except the fact that we have anything to do with greece or turkey apart from the language we speak and the fact that they invaded cyprus time and time again in history and ruled us against our will not only greece and turkey but many other powers in history over 17 times we have been invaded and occupied and ruled ........... now you tell em we are still greeks and turks when everyone who had power came along and fecked us

[Pyrpolizer]

Simon- French parliament recently passed a resolution that calls the imprisonment of a person that simply states that he/she disagrees that the Armenian deaths in 1915 was a genocide... In Germany it is illegal to wear, carry or decorate with the Swastika, which is a widely-used sacred symbol in Dharmic religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism), hence a signifcant violation of the religious freedom of some people in Germany, and there are many others like this... So, I suggest that you be very careful before preaching us about the EU. Any one who wishes to criticize both Turkey or Ataturk freely does it (and believe me that there are many) both in Turkey and in TRNC, have no concern over that, as long as it is within a framework of reason and ethical boundaries.

you said-

many are denied their human rights due to the Turkish occupying regime

I`m sure that you would wish that this would be the reality. However, born and raised in the TRNC I say to you loud and clear: IT IS NOT! Having lived two years in the U.S. I have no hesitation in proudly saying that TRNC has not and does not denied or deny to its people any freedom or right which the U.S. grants to her citizens. So, becareful that you do not confuse realities with how you want things to be.

Are GC newspapers allowed to be sold/circulated in the "trnc"? Were they ever allowed?

If not then why? Too many TCs would like to read them if they had the chance...


So Murataga, it is not just the things you personally see that makes democracy. It is also things , which you personally might not be interested to have them, but others would.

[Simon]

People are not denied their human rights by the Turkish occupying regime Murataga? I suppose you have conveniently forgotten the 200,000 people that were forcibly removed from their homes and not allowed to return; while Turkey brings in illegal immigrants to fill their land.

Anybody can freely criticise Turkey you say? What planet are you living on? Have you heard about the harassment and prosecutions journalists have encountered in Turkey for doing just that.

Please do not confuse reality with how you want things to be.

[Simon]

Free_Cyprus whether you like it or not you are going to have to accept that the people of Cyprus feel a close affiliation with Greece and Turkey. You may not like it, but its true and you will not immediately change that, especially not with your rants and insults. That does not mean that we cannot be an independent country, hopefully, we can. However, the fact is we can't just ignore them, as Turkey occupies Cyprus, and therefore, we need to speak to them to end this; and Greece can also contribute to a solution; as an ally of Cyprus, and a huge financial and cultural contributer to Cyprus. I know you're not going to accept this but facts are facts I'm afraid.

[Sotos]

So even when there is PROOF that somebody is an unethical crook some TCs in this forum still support him. I think this is a proof that they are like him. They are also unethical crooks and they feel Fanos is one of them. They are all bloody thieves like him!

[shahmaran]

I understand your point and of course there has to be some limit on freedom of speech; however, for the Turks, the freedom of speech bar is set far too low, and cannot even be called freedom with its necessary limits. I mean you can't even criticise Turkey or Ataturk? That is third world, ancient laws.

Bullshit!

Those are pretty much the only things you are not allowed to criticise, and i tell you no real Turk would criticise them unfairly either, everything else is open for shots, so i dont know where you guys get all this crap from, Turkey is a country with a majority of uneducated religious arseholes, so unfortunately they have to have certain limits (which country doesnt?), i might hate the current government and happily criticise them without having to fear anyone, but i am definitely not planning to insult Ataturk or Turkishness anytime soon, and if you wish to do so you can fuck off elsewhere where you are allowed to do it because you are not wanted amongst us!

I have been to Greece and to many European countries and i tell you, Greece has gotta be by far the least "Eruopean" out of the whole lot!

[pitsilos]

I have been to Greece and to many European countries and i tell you, Greece has gotta be by far the least "Eruopean" out of the whole lot!

so let me get this straight. you saying that greece is the least european and you would mean the country right? and if the majority in turkey are uneducated religious arseholes, can i ask where it places turkey in the list to be considered aleast european?

so now the truth comes out shahmaran, the turks themselves are a majority of uneducated religious arseholes? so are you proposing death by firing squad, or maybe a quick bath in boiling water?

ps. i am open for suggestions.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Those are pretty much the only things you are not allowed to criticise, and i tell you no real Turk would criticise them unfairly either, everything else is open for shots, so i dont know where you guys get all this crap from, Turkey is a country with a majority of uneducated religious arseholes, so unfortunately they have to have certain limits (which country doesnt?), i might hate the current government and happily criticise them without having to fear anyone, but i am definitely not planning to insult Ataturk or Turkishness anytime soon, and if you wish to do so you can fuck off elsewhere where you are allowed to do it because you are not wanted amongst us!

Even this guy is another Turkish nationalist asshole.

Shamone, its this mentality you have that is quite scarey. You say no 'real Turk' would criticize Ataturk - so does that mean to be accepted as a Turk, you must obey this rule in Turkish society? In a country where being a non-Turk is more or less looked down upon, it doesnt say much for freedom of speech does it.

Just that law about not being a Turkish citizen without a Turkish name goes along way about showing what Turkish society thinks of non-Turks.

Its this mentality that is keeping Turkey from joining the EU, not racism is you like to put it. Turks need to grow up out of this Nazi mentality and check themselves.

[BirKibrisli]

I have spend a lot of time in Turkey in the past 38 years,and I was married to a Turkish woman for 7 years,so I know a thing or two about the Turkish society and culture. One thing I can assure you,it is a very complex and very fractured society,approaching dangerous levels of dicotomy and double standards...The social fabric is continually streched between the minority city-dwelling Westernised elite and their protectors,the military,and the poorly educated,religious, and nationalistically brainwashed majority who live in small towns and the rural areas. This is the product of Ataturk's topdown reforms over a relatively short period,and the remnants of the authoritative and fatalistic Ottoman mentality. Nothing is black and white in Turkey. I get continually surprised by the goodness and generocity of the spirit of the rural people,who can turn on you in an instant if you put a wrong foot on their cherished and inflexible sensibilities,usually religious, nationalistic,or moralistic kind.Most parts of the country is a dangerous forest where even someone as well versed in their culture and tradition as myself can get into serious trouble...To avoid serious trouble in Turkey one must never question the existance of God,the infallability of Ataturk's life and reforms,and the assumed superiority of Turkishness...In other words,if you are an intellectual who believes in doubting and testing every belief or tradition,and if you are not a Turkish nationalist,your life will be very difficult in Turkey.The difficulty is doubly increased because fanatically adverse reaction can come from all quarters,including the so-called westernised city elite...You are literally walking on eggshells every time you step foot in Turkey. Life in Turkey is not good for one's individuality or sense of self...It is almost impossible to be true to yourself if you are not one of the flock...