Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Getting back to our fears and very real fears of which any one can happen. Lets just take the rugby scenario happening when we are united. A majority decision. An EU democratic law that allows them to do that. Well, for me, just not standing up is not enough. This would outrage me so much that I would be willing to take up arms and fight this fascist move. With all my rights stripped from me I am now a Terrorist in my own country. I can be persecuted and the so-called legitimate government could call me what ever it wanted. Don't dismiss these as fantasies that will never happen because if that is the case then why are they doing it now. Why not show the way in how to be a real Cypriot.

Zan,

I'm really sorry to hear, that you have so much fear embedded in you. Perhaps it is from your childhood experiences, whether those are the same fears you have today, I don't know.

This is why I believe, a Federal System with 2 States 1 Country solution, is the best way to go. The vast majority of the TC's and GC's will be living in their respective States, with freedom to move and live , any place one wants, with full protection of the Federal Government and Laws, to all citizens and immigrants. State laws will also exist, with their own State Constitution, which may have their own state flag, song, flower and even state anthem, if they wished to, but Federal Laws will overrule state laws, if it goes against the Federal Constitution, that tries to violate individual rights and protections.

There are many ways to form a solution and a lasting peace. It is the "will" that I question. As Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, " The only thing we have to FEAR, is the FEAR itself". We need the "will", to get over our fears.

Lets also take the Rugy match example one step further, you are standing there with a united flag and anthem (taking for granted that we argued and finally agreed) then the players run onto the field the coach is GCs and all the the players are GCs....would you stand up there come on united Cyprus knowing that there are better TCs player available... what would you do and how would you feel? You protest but the tell you its the coaches decision, what will you do Kikapu as TCs?

[Kikapu]

I really wanted to read people's personal experiences during that time and get other peoples' opinions. Ironically actually I remember one of the first threads I read was one about people's experiences during the intercommunal fighting. I remember reading about Kikapus childhood experience and feeling very touched by it, and actually feeling very touched about his attitude, he'd been through sad times in Cyprus yet he just wanted to move on and try and find a fair solution to the Cyprus problem :

Natty,

And I was very touched by you, the first time you sang the song, "Somewhere over the Rainbow".

Well I wanted to prove to you that you'd picked the right person, so I made it extra special..

You know that if you ever want me to sing it to you again, you only have to ask, and I'd be more than happy to give you another rendition!

And I also have to say that I was very touched that you actually chose me as your Dorothy in the first place…In fact I was really touched about that....

(We could do this all day long... )

Oh good lord yes, that we could do this all day long.

The only reason why I chose you as "my Dorothy" was because, of your HUMANITY. You sound like a very "Good Natured" kind of a person, where you feel close to your fellow humans.

I would love to hear you sing "Over the Rainbow" again. I still feel the echos of your voice in the room right now, as I'm writing this post. But I can always go back and reopen the thread of "OZ", and listen to it over and over again, without other members spoiling it, by talking politics.

[pitsilos]

Getting back to our fears and very real fears of which any one can happen. Lets just take the rugby scenario happening when we are united. A majority decision. An EU democratic law that allows them to do that. Well, for me, just not standing up is not enough. This would outrage me so much that I would be willing to take up arms and fight this fascist move. With all my rights stripped from me I am now a Terrorist in my own country. I can be persecuted and the so-called legitimate government could call me what ever it wanted. Don't dismiss these as fantasies that will never happen because if that is the case then why are they doing it now. Why not show the way in how to be a real Cypriot.

Zan,

I'm really sorry to hear, that you have so much fear embedded in you. Perhaps it is from your childhood experiences, whether those are the same fears you have today, I don't know.

This is why I believe, a Federal System with 2 States 1 Country solution, is the best way to go. The vast majority of the TC's and GC's will be living in their respective States, with freedom to move and live , any place one wants, with full protection of the Federal Government and Laws, to all citizens and immigrants. State laws will also exist, with their own State Constitution, which may have their own state flag, song, flower and even state anthem, if they wished to, but Federal Laws will overrule state laws, if it goes against the Federal Constitution, that tries to violate individual rights and protections.

There are many ways to form a solution and a lasting peace. It is the "will" that I question. As Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, " The only thing we have to FEAR, is the FEAR itself". We need the "will", to get over our fears.

Lets also take the Rugy match example one step further, you are standing there with a united flag and anthem (taking for granted that we argued and finally agreed) then the players run onto the field the coach is GCs and all the the players are GCs....would you stand up there come on united Cyprus knowing that there are better TCs player available... what would you do and how would you feel? You protest but the tell you its the coaches decision, what will you do Kikapu as TCs?

what you say was more obvious in south africa, before apartheid, once that was brought down today we see a different attitude. coaches are not put there to chose on the basis of who you are, they are put there to select best players.

in case of a united cyprus, teams will contain a mixture of players, and if a club feels hard done by a selection they will voice their concerns.

[askimwos]

Getting back to our fears and very real fears of which any one can happen. Lets just take the rugby scenario happening when we are united. A majority decision. An EU democratic law that allows them to do that. Well, for me, just not standing up is not enough. This would outrage me so much that I would be willing to take up arms and fight this fascist move. With all my rights stripped from me I am now a Terrorist in my own country. I can be persecuted and the so-called legitimate government could call me what ever it wanted. Don't dismiss these as fantasies that will never happen because if that is the case then why are they doing it now. Why not show the way in how to be a real Cypriot.

Zan,

I'm really sorry to hear, that you have so much fear embedded in you. Perhaps it is from your childhood experiences, whether those are the same fears you have today, I don't know.

This is why I believe, a Federal System with 2 States 1 Country solution, is the best way to go. The vast majority of the TC's and GC's will be living in their respective States, with freedom to move and live , any place one wants, with full protection of the Federal Government and Laws, to all citizens and immigrants. State laws will also exist, with their own State Constitution, which may have their own state flag, song, flower and even state anthem, if they wished to, but Federal Laws will overrule state laws, if it goes against the Federal Constitution, that tries to violate individual rights and protections.

There are many ways to form a solution and a lasting peace. It is the "will" that I question. As Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, " The only thing we have to FEAR, is the FEAR itself". We need the "will", to get over our fears.

Lets also take the Rugy match example one step further, you are standing there with a united flag and anthem (taking for granted that we argued and finally agreed) then the players run onto the field the coach is GCs and all the the players are GCs....would you stand up there come on united Cyprus knowing that there are better TCs player available... what would you do and how would you feel? You protest but the tell you its the coaches decision, what will you do Kikapu as TCs?

Vp do you listen what you are saying mate?

I wouldn't care if all the national team was made up from TCs if these were the best or the best according to the coach. I wouldn't care because I consider TCs as Cypriots.

What is your point here? Are suggesting to implement a 70%-30% split as well so as both communities are represented in the national team? Your complexes are way too severe than I originally thought vp. Be sure that the fans would react if it was obvious that the national team was crap because the coach was descriminating against TC good players. This is only if you view Cyprus as your country and take pride at your national team.

[Kikapu]

Lets also take the Rugy match example one step further, you are standing there with a united flag and anthem (taking for granted that we argued and finally agreed) then the players run onto the field the coach is GCs and all the the players are GCs....would you stand up there come on united Cyprus knowing that there are better TCs player available... what would you do and how would you feel? You protest but the tell you its the coaches decision, what will you do Kikapu as TCs?

VP,

In everything in life and business and politics, we elect or appoint people to do things in their own way, as long as it achieves results, without being Racist and discriminatory. If the GC coach is deliberately and willfully will not allow any TC's to play, then he will be history, because of his actions by not putting the best players on the field. He might get away with it once or twice, but I can assure you, it will be the GC players, that will complain the most, if they are loosing their games, due to a Racist coach, by keeping good TC players, on the bench.

However, if on any given Sunday, I would go to a game, and it so happens, there are only GC players and no TC's, then it would not bother me at all. We must not have an "affirmative action" or "quotas" in everything divided 80%-20% VP.

I don't know when you left the UK, to return back to Cyprus VP, but I remember the first black player for England to play football. It was in 1979, and the player was Viv Anderson. For years UK had a racist policy of keeping the blacks out of the National team. Guess what, it all came to an end. In time, all will also fall in their rightful place, in Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

Getting back to our fears and very real fears of which any one can happen. Lets just take the rugby scenario happening when we are united. A majority decision. An EU democratic law that allows them to do that. Well, for me, just not standing up is not enough. This would outrage me so much that I would be willing to take up arms and fight this fascist move. With all my rights stripped from me I am now a Terrorist in my own country. I can be persecuted and the so-called legitimate government could call me what ever it wanted. Don't dismiss these as fantasies that will never happen because if that is the case then why are they doing it now. Why not show the way in how to be a real Cypriot.

Zan,

I'm really sorry to hear, that you have so much fear embedded in you. Perhaps it is from your childhood experiences, whether those are the same fears you have today, I don't know.

This is why I believe, a Federal System with 2 States 1 Country solution, is the best way to go. The vast majority of the TC's and GC's will be living in their respective States, with freedom to move and live , any place one wants, with full protection of the Federal Government and Laws, to all citizens and immigrants. State laws will also exist, with their own State Constitution, which may have their own state flag, song, flower and even state anthem, if they wished to, but Federal Laws will overrule state laws, if it goes against the Federal Constitution, that tries to violate individual rights and protections.

There are many ways to form a solution and a lasting peace. It is the "will" that I question. As Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, " The only thing we have to FEAR, is the FEAR itself". We need the "will", to get over our fears.

Lets also take the Rugy match example one step further, you are standing there with a united flag and anthem (taking for granted that we argued and finally agreed) then the players run onto the field the coach is GCs and all the the players are GCs....would you stand up there come on united Cyprus knowing that there are better TCs player available... what would you do and how would you feel? You protest but the tell you its the coaches decision, what will you do Kikapu as TCs?

Vp do you listen what you are saying mate?

I wouldn't care if all the national team was made up from TCs if these were the best or the best according to the coach. I wouldn't care because I consider TCs as Cypriots.

What is your point here? Are suggesting to implement a 70%-30% split as well so as both communities are represented in the national team? Your complexes are way too severe than I originally thought vp. Be sure that the fans would react if it was obvious that the national team was crap because the coach was descriminating against TC good players. This is only if you view Cyprus as your country and take pride at your national team.

This is a real concern for many Tcs just ridiculing and ignoring will not make it go away it will just perpetuate it, do you not realize this? The discrimination is a reality which we should try to ensure does not happen just claimingg we are all Cypriots doesnt cut it...as I for one would never trust a GC coach to make a decision purely on ability as this is "Cyprus" were there is a deep ingrained past where similar situations were lived and the fear of allowing them to rear their ugly heads is a real nightmare shared by many in our community. The mechanism has to ensure that it will not allow such discrimination, the chosen players could be screened by a board of mixed experts to ensure the best players have been chosen without any ethnic discrimination.

[Kikapu]

This is a real concern for many Tcs just ridiculing and ignoring will not make it go away it will just perpetuate it, do you not realize this? The discrimination is a reality which we should try to ensure does not happen just claimingg we are all Cypriots doesnt cut it...as I for one would never trust a GC coach to make a decision purely on ability as this is "Cyprus" were there is a deep ingrained past where similar situations were lived and the fear of allowing them to rear their ugly heads is a real nightmare shared by many in our community. The mechanism has to ensure that it will not allow such discrimination, the chosen players could be screened by a board of mixed experts to ensure the best players have been chosen without any ethnic discrimination.

This is one discrimination, no coach is ever going to be able to hide, if that is, what's he is doing.

A committee to choose players to play for each game......boy, talk about red tape and bureaucracy.


Any way, what makes you think, that the Coach will be a GC. The way things are done today, Coaches come from anywhere and everywhere.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

In everything in life and business and politics, we elect or appoint people to do things in their own way, as long as it achieves results, without being Racist and discriminatory. If the GC coach is deliberately and willfully will not allow any TC's to play, then he will be history, because of his actions by not putting the best players on the field. He might get away with it once or twice, but I can assure you, it will be the GC players, that will complain the most, if they are loosing their games, due to a Racist coach, by keeping good TC players, on the bench.

Man this is Cyprus and the above statement show you have lived abroad for far to long, you do not know GCs at all. They would explain away any obejections backing it up with EU and Unn directives rubber stamped by our Mongolian tribesmen if meant keeping TCs out.

However, if on any given Sunday, I would go to a game, and it so happens, there are only GC players and no TC's, then it would not bother me at all. We must not have an "affirmative action" or "quotas" in everything divided 80%-20% VP.

This isnt what I am saying maybe a screening system or another alternative just to ensure this does not happen, having no TCs in the team would bother me greatly as Im sorry but Nicos or Yannis just do not refpreent me as Ahmet or Mustafa, the joint effort I would support until the end but having just Gc players in a united Cyprus team is no different than standing to see a United Cyprus play and listening to Greeces national athem. We have to feel we are part of that team not outsiders.

I don't know when you left the UK, to return back to Cyprus VP, but I remember the first black player for England to play football. It was in 1979, and the player was Viv Anderson. For years UK had a racist policy of keeping the blacks out of the National team. Guess what, it all came to an end. In time, all will also fall in their rightful place, in Cyprus.

Did the black people in the UK ever own the UK? I cannot throw my children into that racist arena where I know my son can play better than nay player on the pitch but will never get picked because he is a TC, I do not want to put his future into the hands of purely GCs without a safety net.

[Viewpoint]

This is a real concern for many Tcs just ridiculing and ignoring will not make it go away it will just perpetuate it, do you not realize this? The discrimination is a reality which we should try to ensure does not happen just claimingg we are all Cypriots doesnt cut it...as I for one would never trust a GC coach to make a decision purely on ability as this is "Cyprus" were there is a deep ingrained past where similar situations were lived and the fear of allowing them to rear their ugly heads is a real nightmare shared by many in our community. The mechanism has to ensure that it will not allow such discrimination, the chosen players could be screened by a board of mixed experts to ensure the best players have been chosen without any ethnic discrimination.

This is one discrimination, no coach is ever going to be able to hide, if that is, what's he is doing.

A committee to choose players to play for each game......boy, talk about red tape and bureaucracy.


Any way, what makes you think, that the Coach will be a GC. The way things are done today, Coaches come from anywhere and everywhere.

It works both ways that goes without saying oyu are just trying to side step the issue, the coach can pick the players he wants for the team but the safety net would be a review by a mixed board of experts that will not only act as a deterrant for the coach but ensure that the best players do get picked irrelevent of ethnic origin.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

In everything in life and business and politics, we elect or appoint people to do things in their own way, as long as it achieves results, without being Racist and discriminatory. If the GC coach is deliberately and willfully will not allow any TC's to play, then he will be history, because of his actions by not putting the best players on the field. He might get away with it once or twice, but I can assure you, it will be the GC players, that will complain the most, if they are loosing their games, due to a Racist coach, by keeping good TC players, on the bench.

Man this is Cyprus and the above statement show you have lived abroad for far to long, you do not know GCs at all. They would explain away any obejections backing it up with EU and Unn directives rubber stamped by our Mongolian tribesmen if meant keeping TCs out.

However, if on any given Sunday, I would go to a game, and it so happens, there are only GC players and no TC's, then it would not bother me at all. We must not have an "affirmative action" or "quotas" in everything divided 80%-20% VP.

This isnt what I am saying maybe a screening system or another alternative just to ensure this does not happen, having no TCs in the team would bother me greatly as Im sorry but Nicos or Yannis just do not refpreent me as Ahmet or Mustafa, the joint effort I would support until the end but having just Gc players in a united Cyprus team is no different than standing to see a United Cyprus play and listening to Greeces national athem. We have to feel we are part of that team not outsiders.

I don't know when you left the UK, to return back to Cyprus VP, but I remember the first black player for England to play football. It was in 1979, and the player was Viv Anderson. For years UK had a racist policy of keeping the blacks out of the National team. Guess what, it all came to an end. In time, all will also fall in their rightful place, in Cyprus.

Did the black people in the UK ever own the UK? I cannot throw my children into that racist arena where I know my son can play better than nay player on the pitch but will never get picked because he is a TC, I do not want to put his future into the hands of purely GCs without a safety net.

OK VP, you asked the questions and I have answered you. But you really do not want answers, just an argument. I'm not interested, sorry.