Cyprus-Forum.com

[free_cyprus]

i agree we should be one people in cyprus get rid of turkish language get rid of greek language have a new language get rid of all history of turkey and greece from cyprus............. lets start a new feck when i hear about your heritage and your ancesters and so forth feck we were all slave you morons we been fucked over and over again and you guys have the cheek ehre to talka bout your ancesters and your ethnic originas what ethnic originas are you lot talking about we an island of bastards raped repeadetly in history by any country that had power and all of a suddenly we have become greek and turkish................................ i defy anybody to show me writen records lol of where they originated from since we keep arguing about the fact that our roots lie in turkey and greece i challange anyone in this forum to come forth ....................jeeeeeeeeeeeeee only fifty years ago 85% of cypriots couldnt read or write where the hell is your brains how can you defend being turkish or greek. i speak english i write english right now am i english jeeeeee lets be real people open up your minds and see things as they are in this forum

[Pyrpolizer]

FC mother language cannot be "got rid" don't fool yourself.

And unfortunately in this part of the world language in some peoples brains means ethnicity. What if we have DNA studies proving we are not Turks nor Greeks? It doesn't matter for the vast majority of Cypriots. Look how Zan and Aga-Murat think (!!!! even his nick he thinks he is Ottoman ) And I can assure you many GCs think exactly the same.

[Murataga]

Reaction to realities from GCs on the forum… quite typical but most unfortunately rather sad. I do not have the time to answer all of you; and I will certainly not answer some of you with the awe of the logic in my statement have chosen to respond with personal insults.

Pyrpolizer- first argued that TCs are not Turks and than went on to name all Cypriots “bastardized”. So, will leave him alone as we all need some entertainment from time to time on the forum. However, I owe him an explanation regarding the nickname. Murataga is the name of one of the villages where 88 TCs were massacred and put into mass grave in 1974 by GCs.

Piratis- in his typical approach to arguments he can’t answer has tried to divert the subject of my initial post (which was simply stating that we are not “one” people) by starting to type his “magical” numbers on the Cyprus conflict and attempted to pose some of his pathetic analogies. Piratis first asked:

maybe you should ask for a separate country in a part of Bulgaria, a part of Greece, a part of Germany and a part of every other country that a Turkish minority exists?

First of all this has nothing to do with what I initially posted. I was simply stating that there are two distinct communities in Cyprus that have in the past and will in the future endure problems when put under each other’s administration or sovereignty and forced to live as ONE. As far as your looser and demagogue question is concerned… Of course we do not ask this and your examples mean absolutely nothing. The history, the population, the political circumstances, the legal establishment, international agreements and etc. of the situation in all of these are completely different than the one in Cyprus. This state was established on a partnership status. TCs are the partners of this state. In this state innocent TCs were attacked and murdered when they resisted giving up their legal rights as partners. TCs were put under a siege and placed under an embargo when they resisted giving up their legal rights as partners. And when they gather in a zone to protect themselves out of pure instinct for survival against lethal violence directed at them you claim that they stole GC property. This is no different than throwing the first punch in someone’s face and than blaming him for property damage because the blood from his nose spilled on your carpet.

because some of them were smarted and kicked out all the Turks when they were liberated from them so now the Turks can not have claims on their countries

This racist and hateful comment is nothing different than someone saying to YOU that perhaps the Ottomans should have “kicked out” (by whatever means necessary) all the GCs from Cyprus when they had the chance so that GCs can not claim anything today. Surely, you realize how simple such a task would have been for the Ottomans given the balance of power in that era. Yet, peculiarly in your next sentence you try to label TCs as racists… Such comments are both meaningless and shallow; so I suggest that don’t repeat them for the sake of whatever credibility you have left.

Yeap, as I always said the Intercommunal conflict was over by 1968 and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Turkish invasion that came a whole 7 years later. The excuse for the invasion was the coup.

No, the conflict was not over in 68, it had only transformed to a further stage which was at least inhumane and illegal as the pre-68 period. TCs were forced to hide in enclaves to survive. By 1968 TCs had already been muscled out of the government, GCs had hijacked the title of the government of Cyprus ; under this illegal and hijacked title they were passing resolutions on international platforms against TCs where TCs were not even being given a hearing; under this illegal and hijacked title they had sieged the TCs and placed the TCs under an embargo that brought them to the brink of starvation and extinction had it not been for the aid of Turkey. Perhaps you might be right to claim that not as many shots were fired after 68, but why bother with the ammunition when you can starve them to death, right?

The first and foremost illegality belongs to GCs for initially depriving TCs from their legal rights in the state, murdering them for resisting to this deprivation, murdering them in the lunatic crusade for ENOSIS, and putting them under a siege to starve to death.

[Murataga]

Reaction to realities from GCs on the forum… quite typical but most unfortunately rather sad. I do not have the time to answer all of you; and I will certainly not answer some of you with the awe of the logic in my statement have chosen to respond with personal insults.

Pyrpolizer- first argued that TCs are not Turks and than went on to name all Cypriots “bastardized”. So, will leave him alone as we all need some entertainment from time to time on the forum. However, I owe him an explanation regarding the nickname. Murataga is the name of one of the villages where 88 TCs were massacred and put into mass grave in 1974 by GCs.

Piratis- in his typical approach to arguments he can’t answer has tried to divert the subject of my initial post (which was simply stating that we are not “one” people) by starting to type his “magical” numbers on the Cyprus conflict and attempted to pose some of his pathetic analogies. Piratis first asked:

maybe you should ask for a separate country in a part of Bulgaria, a part of Greece, a part of Germany and a part of every other country that a Turkish minority exists?

First of all this has nothing to do with what I initially posted. I was simply stating that there are two distinct communities in Cyprus that have in the past and will in the future endure problems when put under each other’s administration or sovereignty and forced to live as ONE. As far as your looser and demagogue question is concerned… Of course we do not ask this and your examples mean absolutely nothing. The history, the population, the political circumstances, the legal establishment, international agreements and etc. of the situation in all of these are completely different than the one in Cyprus. This state was established on a partnership status. TCs are the partners of this state. In this state innocent TCs were attacked and murdered when they resisted giving up their legal rights as partners. TCs were put under a siege and placed under an embargo when they resisted giving up their legal rights as partners. And when they gather in a zone to protect themselves out of pure instinct for survival against lethal violence directed at them you claim that they stole GC property. This is no different than throwing the first punch in someone’s face and than blaming him for property damage because the blood from his nose spilled on your carpet.

because some of them were smarted and kicked out all the Turks when they were liberated from them so now the Turks can not have claims on their countries

This racist and hateful comment is nothing different than someone saying to YOU that perhaps the Ottomans should have “kicked out” (by whatever means necessary) all the GCs from Cyprus when they had the chance so that GCs can not claim anything today. Surely, you realize how simple such a task would have been for the Ottomans given the balance of power in that era. Yet, peculiarly in your next sentence you try to label TCs as racists… Such comments are both meaningless and shallow; so I suggest that don’t repeat them for the sake of whatever credibility you have left.

Yeap, as I always said the Intercommunal conflict was over by 1968 and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Turkish invasion that came a whole 7 years later. The excuse for the invasion was the coup.

No, the conflict was not over in 68, it had only transformed to a further stage which was at least inhumane and illegal as the pre-68 period. TCs were forced to hide in enclaves to survive. By 1968 TCs had already been muscled out of the government, GCs had hijacked the title of the government of Cyprus ; under this illegal and hijacked title they were passing resolutions on international platforms against TCs where TCs were not even being given a hearing; under this illegal and hijacked title they had sieged the TCs and placed the TCs under an embargo that brought them to the brink of starvation and extinction had it not been for the aid of Turkey. Perhaps you might be right to claim that not as many shots were fired after 68, but why bother with the ammunition when you can starve them to death, right?

The first and foremost illegality belongs to GCs for initially depriving TCs from their legal rights in the state, murdering them for resisting to this deprivation, murdering them in the lunatic crusade for ENOSIS, and putting them under a siege to starve to death.

[pitsilos]

under this illegal and hijacked title they were passing resolutions on international platforms against TCs where TCs were not even being given a hearing;

the first question here is, and according to you, if it was deemed an illegal state and a hijacked one at that, how come then to this very date is still recognized as the only legal state on the island and a fully fledged member of the EU?

the second question is, where was turkey all this time as all the resolutions were condemning her, i mean one after the other? you saying she wasn't getting legal sound advice and trying to defend her self? or she was not invited to the party at the un?

I think the bulk of the resolutions were against Turkey and not the tcs

[askimwos]

Murataga, your posts looks like small essays, though you must have been told that in order to promote an argument and be respected you have to present both sides of the coin. Canningly you avoid that and this is the main reason you get all these counter-arguments coming towards you so don't complain. You have said that no two countries in the world are similar cases and you chose to present the UK environment as an example. What you failed to do though is to say that pakistanis and indians in the Uk are in fact ecomomic immigrants who emigrated to the Uk the last century. What about the Australians, surely none of those call themselves British even though they are very very similar to the British, how about the whole of Latin America? Argentinians, Mexicans, Colombians, Venezuaellans, all speak spanish and all are catholics, should they call themselves spanish and be split to natives and of spanish decent? According to your logic, the Basces should be allowed a seperate state, the Scotish a seperate country and India should be split in 30 or so different countries. What about the Kurds then, should they be allowed a seperate state within Turkey because Turkey has been oppressing them for the last centuary or so? I don't think that you accept this either.
You see Muratanga there are always two sides of a coin. Yes there have been atrocities in the past and TCs were somehow opressed but don't be fooled, TMT put their hand into all this as well. Does this justify the de facto division of an independent country? What justified Turkey satying on the island for 32 years now. Why don't they withdraw their troops and let the UN or an international force patrol and protect the TC then?
You also keep iteriting the events of 1963-68as the cause of all bad things that followed and you repeatetly mention the suffering of the TCs during that period in order to justify Turkey's barbaric acts in 1974. As you present yourself to be one that felt the plight of the TC people, in order to be HUMAN and not an animal you should also feel the plight of the GC people that were kicked out of their houses.
I agree with you that BBF is the way forward but you have to bear in mind that this should be a real federation which should unite people under a powerful and comanaged federal administration and not one that divides them. This solution should mean a trully independend country and not a protectorate of any of the motherlands or UK. If you can accept that then this is the way forward.

PS: Piratis is right to what he is talking about in most of the cases. However, I do not agree with the notion of the CypProb being an issue of any legal system. The CyProb is a political problem as well and should be seen and analysed taking into account the bigger picture.

[Pyrpolizer]

No, the conflict was not over in 68, it had only transformed to a further stage which was at least inhumane and illegal as the pre-68 period. TCs were forced to hide in enclaves to survive. By 1968 TCs had already been muscled out of the government, GCs had hijacked the title of the government of Cyprus ; under this illegal and hijacked title they were passing resolutions on international platforms against TCs where TCs were not even being given a hearing; under this illegal and hijacked title they had sieged the TCs and placed the TCs under an embargo that brought them to the brink of starvation and extinction had it not been for the aid of Turkey. Perhaps you might be right to claim that not as many shots were fired after 68, but why bother with the ammunition when you can starve them to death, right?

Nonsense. Not even 1/3 of TCs were in enclaves and life in mixed or unmixed villages was as normal as it could be. All these are fairy tales the feed you, thank God there are people who were old enough those times to know and have seen with their own eyes. With the excemption of Nicosia enclave which was inside the walls all other enclaves could be watched from a distance. TC people were living in enclaves / ghettos were kept there by force or threads waiting for the Turkish ships to come for partition. You could see people getting in and out, you could see the shops and coffee shops at the outskirts of the ghettos, nothing was even near to what one can call "starvation". It was life of people in and out of ghettos, nothing else.

As for life of people in mixed or unmixed villages go ask them yourself, you will realise that in every village there was a MAINLAND TURKISH GENERAL watching them and punishing them if they had any relations or commerce with GCs.

Everything was preplanned, your isolation and sufferring was pre-planed , and you have been educated to exagerate everything to a degree that becomes a LIE.

[askimwos]

Here is a question for you zan and Vp..

Weren't TC punished or even killed by TMT if they were found to trade and have any kind relation with their GC compatriots?

Please leave the usual crap aside and answer the question. Let the everyday TC know the whole truth and not just the one that suits your propaganda cause.

[Pyrpolizer]

The were absolutely terrified to do it askimwos. I saw it with my own eyes. They were hiding from fear because if any other TC would see them, they would be in trouble.

[askimwos]

I know that Pyr, however the question was directed to zan and Vp.
Still no answer though, I wonder why!