Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

militiades-
How dare you threaten us with stating that the only solution is being "one people" ? Should I give up my heritage, my culture, my tradition, my language, my religion, deny my ancestry and ethnicity to please you? Is this the price tag you have for us to make peace; to deny what we are? We are all Cypriots but we are definitely NOT one people.

There is no Cypriot nation and there has never been one. This might well be the curse of Cyprus but nevertheless it is a reality that all parties must acknowledge. There are GCs, who are of Greek ethnicity, speak Greek and are predominantly Orthodox Christians and than there are the TCs who are of Turkish ethnicity, speak Turkish and are predominantly Sunni Muslims. The fact that intermarriage of these two communities have not prevailed for centuries, that they have lived in separate villages, even those living in same ones had neighborhoods forming based on communal backgrounds are perfect evidence of the distinction between the two communities. An important common feature is that both have arrived to Cyprus from other places at different times. Forcing TCs to forget about their origins, their language, culture and adopt a synthetically generated “Cypriot culture” based predominantly on Greek heritage is nothing but a severe violation of human rights.

[zan]

militiades-
How dare you threaten us with stating that the only solution is being "one people" ? Should I give up my heritage, my culture, my tradition, my language, my religion, deny my ancestry and ethnicity to please you? Is this the price tag you have for us to make peace; to deny what we are? We are all Cypriots but we are definitely NOT one people.

There is no Cypriot nation and there has never been one. This might well be the curse of Cyprus but nevertheless it is a reality that all parties must acknowledge. There are GCs, who are of Greek ethnicity, speak Greek and are predominantly Orthodox Christians and than there are the TCs who are of Turkish ethnicity, speak Turkish and are predominantly Sunni Muslims. The fact that intermarriage of these two communities have not prevailed for centuries, that they have lived in separate villages, even those living in same ones had neighborhoods forming based on communal backgrounds are perfect evidence of the distinction between the two communities. An important common feature is that both have arrived to Cyprus from other places at different times. Forcing TCs to forget about their origins, their language, culture and adopt a synthetically generated “Cypriot culture” based predominantly on Greek heritage is nothing but a severe violation of human rights.

Well put Murataga. Check your mail.

[askimwos]

Nobody said to deny your turkish cypriotness and I do not think that the majority of GCs want to be denied the Greek Cypriotness. However, you make one BIG mistake, language and religion alone don't make one Turk or Greek. There are countries in the world that have multiple languages and religions but this does not make the multiple "peoples".
In Cyprus there are traditions and folklor elements shared by both communities that cannot be found anywhere in the world, Greece and Turkey included.

I cannot understand either your statement about TCs being asked to adopt a syntheticaly generated "Cypriot Culture" based predominatly on Greek culture. What do you mean? This synthetically generated Cypriot culture that you despice has been on the island for centuries and is not Greek based either but rather a unique culture of Cyprus. How can you be forced to accept a Greek based culture, can this really be done? It didn't happen for centuries, how can it happen now?

As for the issue regarding constantly refering to the past I think that the people that tend to do this are the same people that support either TCs capitulising to GCs or TCs that want partition. In both cased these people do not offer anythng towards reconciliation especially when they do this in a way to say "see what happend? do you want the same to happen again?" These are the same people that promote hatred and try to discredit any positive developments to the Cyprob.

[Murataga]

askimwos- Yes, I agree that there are common traditions and folklore but no more than a few dance figures and dishes in the kitchen, so let’s not exaggerate. Yes, there are countries where people of different language and religion live together, but just as importantly there are many others that don’t. In international relations and corresponding sociological phenomenon there are very seldom two cases that are alike; and each situation has its own unique circumstances as does the Cyprus. More importantly, people with much more common traditions and folklore between GCs and TCs such as Canadians of Canada and English of Great Britain, New Zealanders of New Zealand and Australians of Australia, Pakistanis of Pakistan and Indians of India, and etc… have separate countries. You can not ask or force two communities to live as one when there is a strong will against doing so from either one or both of the communities. Consider Greeks of Greece and Turks of Turkey for example… Greece was effectively an Ottoman province for many centuries, where all subjects of the Ottomans lived together. Whether they may like it or not, whether they may accept it or not, the people of Greece share more traditions and folklore with their neighboring Turks than perhaps any other EU member country today. Furthermore, with a population of a little more than 10 million, the population of Greece to Turkey in terms of percentage corresponds to the population of TCs to GCs. Given all these criteria, Greece should dismantle their state and become ONE with the Turks again according to your mentality.

In conclusion, there are two distinct communities in Cyprus that have in the past and will in the future endure problems when put under each other’s administration or sovereignty and forced to live as ONE. Yes, we share some common attribute, but we are not ONE and never have been. Far more importantly, we don’t want to be. Both communities have jealously preserved their distinction and it is only natural for each community to want to be administered by people from their own community. We want to be friends, we want to be partners, we want to be colleagues, but not One. There is a huge difference. I want my 1 year old son to go to a TC school where he is taught that Turkey is where we came to Cyprus from, Turkey is the country that saved us from illegal and lethal violence we were subjected to between 63-74, and that his grandparents were able to survive because of the aid and assistance Turkey sent them when GCs had them under siege. I don’t want him to go a school where he is thought that Turkey is an illegal and barbaric invader. I am not telling you that we should live in the past. I am all for putting it behind us, make no mistake about it. However, you must accept that history is a part of culture and folklore, and what makes us who we are today. You can not ask me to act like it did not happen and that I can not tell it to my kids the way I lived it or the way his grandparents lived it. Peace in the island is not through becoming one, it is through partnership. Partnership is not partition, don’t confuse them. Partnership is respect to the existence of our communities in Cyprus, it is the recipe for peace, it is a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation where neither of the communities are allowed explicitly or implicitly their extend their will or sovereignty over the other.

[Piratis]

Murtaga, maybe you should ask for a separate country in a part of Bulgaria, a part of Greece, a part of Germany and a part of every other country that a Turkish minority exists? Wait a second, maybe every part once ruled by the Ottomans should now have a separate Turkish country in it? Or maybe not, because some of them were smarted and kicked out all the Turks when they were liberated from them so now the Turks can not have claims on their countries.

You are more than welcome in Cyprus as equal Cypriot and EU citizens. But you don't own any particular part of the island. The northern part that you currently illegaly occupy is the homeland of 200.000 GCs and just 50.000TCs, how the hell do you dare call it Turkish? Because you have the big guns of Nazi turkey that can invade and occupy foreign countries?

You considering yourself as a separate people doesn't give you the right for ethnic cleansing and land grab. We are not in the Ottoman era anymore. Consider yourselves whatever you want, thats your right. But you have absolutely no right to violate our human rights and international law.

If you are so racists that you can not live with us, then you have the right to move out. Maybe you can ask from Turks in Turkey to give you their homes and land so you can have your own separate country there.

[LENA]

LET ME GET THE POINT OF ALL THIS??

STUCK IN THE PAST???

How many times we will discuss about the past? Does anyone disagree that both sides suffer since 1959? Does anyone say that one of the 2 sides didnt have dead people? Does anyone refuse that we listen and taught only the one side, hear propaganda stuff, lies and that politicians try to lead our minds and make us fanatics?

The aim here is to post facts and stories? Say how many people die? How many innocent children and women was killed? How many raped women suffer? Count the weapons, the bombs? Count the tears? Is that our aim here?

[Piratis]

Intercommunal Violence, 1963-67

Yeap, as I always said the Intercommunal conflict was over by 1968 and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Turkish invasion that came a whole 7 years later. The excuse for the invasion was the coup.

However the Turks in order to add one more lame excuse to the crimes and illegalities they are commiting they added that to the mix as well.

So what we have here is the Turks, who have butchered GCs by the 1000s for centuries as recently as 1974, and ethnically cleansed 200.000 people, come here and try to excuse the crimes they insist committing today using a tiny selective part of history that they distort to suit their propaganda and at the same time they forget everything else.

[Pyrpolizer]

The fact that intermarriage of these two communities have not prevailed for centuries, that they have lived in separate villages, even those living in same ones had neighborhoods forming based on communal backgrounds are perfect evidence of the distinction between the two communities.

Your perfect evidence is not perfect at all. When the British came here the mouslims suddenly dropped from 25% to 18%. So more than 1/3 of the mouslims at any given time were not Turks but converted Greeks. Now span this percentage over the 300 years of Ottoman rule to realise that what makes CYPRIOTS. Cypriots is a very much bastardised nation of Greeks and Turks. The reason why the TCs are so distant from relegion (contrary to the Gcs and contrary to the mainland Turks) is exactly THAT. A converted person does it for the money and is never likely to be closed to either his previous or new relegion.

[Pyrpolizer]

On the other hand I accept that language and relegion by themselves are so strong elements (especially language) that can turn any person feeling separate than the other who speaks a different language. I accept the TCs must have an area to administer themselves in whatever partnership a Federal state means.
The problem as I see it, is because both the majority of TCs think they are Turks, but ALSO the majority of GCs think they are Greeks and the others are Turks etc.

In other words because the vast majority people of Cyprus, like the vast majority of people of the whole planet, are actually fools, but who cares. This is how an inferior creature of the creation functions.

Hey don't worry. Humans already had 65 interventions to their genetic code, the next one is due by 2012.

[Get Real!]

militiades-
How dare you threaten us with stating that the only solution is being "one people" ?

There is no place for illiterate Turkish fools like you on Cyprus so stop wasting your breath.