Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Has the Turkish government pulled in line Kivrikoglu on his actions and disrespect towards Soyer. Kivrikoglu acted innappropriately towards a statesman yet his action goes unquestioned. That is innappropriate and disrespectful behaviour.

Soyer has stood by his values and support for his people, yet his treated like a criminal. Kivrikoglu is C _ _ T and ought to be sacked immedately. Talat needs to act on this immediately and call for Kivrikoglu's resignation.

[pitsilos]

Kivrikoglu is the ultimate leader in the north. talat better start growing some cojenes apart from the one on his shoulder, coz the one on his shoulder doesn't count.

[Pyrpolizer]

Humanist,

We 've just witnessed the "deep state" in action. The Army in Turkey and in the Occupied is a state within a state. And much more powerful than whatever puppet called Talat or Soyer.

[humanist]

In this case we need to act in support of the turkish speaking cyriots, the RoC needs to pus for the north to be inducted in the EU asap so that they can free themselves from turkey. And then the turkish and greek speaking cypriots can negotiate unification away from turkeys interests.

[zan]

In this case we need to act in support of the turkish speaking cyriots, the RoC needs to pus for the north to be inducted in the EU asap so that they can free themselves from turkey. And then the turkish and greek speaking cypriots can negotiate unification away from turkeys interests.

If you are saying what I think you are saying then....Boy oh boy are you in for a basting from the likes of those two above.

[Pyrpolizer]

In this case we need to act in support of the turkish speaking cyriots, the RoC needs to pus for the north to be inducted in the EU asap so that they can free themselves from turkey. And then the turkish and greek speaking cypriots can negotiate unification away from turkeys interests.

The question is how when
1) The TCs themselves are split between partitionists like VP and Zan and the majority of them 70% support the Turkish army.
2) The TC leadership want our help to translaqte to recognition.
3) The occupied is flooded with settlers who outcast the TCs and the setlers don't want reunifiction because that's against their interests and the free lands and properties they got.
4)There do not want to sign an agreement that they will stop building and selling our stolen properties.

[humanist]

I am certainly not putting a case forth for recognition of trnc however support and protection of the turkish cypriot people and culture, (though I question the notion of culture), and certainly not supporting the loss of refugee property. These are two separate issues, ther is a whole part of our cypriot culture and future history that will be lost if the mainland turks and the army conitnue to push turkish speaking cypriots towards immigration, as an antrhopologist I have rerl concerns of the ethical dilemas that mey arise from allowing part of our people to near point of extinction as it were. As they are seeking refuge to foreign lands.

I have posted in the past many a times about the support of refugeee right of return. However at the same time I realise and know from personal friends storries that many will not return and will be hapy to accept compensation for their properties to this end it may nassist the north state to exist with majority of turkish speaking cypriot population. With Varosha returned to mostly greek cypriots and to te control of a south stae, then the rest will be pretty mauch an equl number of inhabitants. Therefore allowing for a very small number of situations to be negotiated.

Pyr am not sure about point 4 of your post however I believe that if there is to be a unification plan that the north is propozing and willing to explore then I believe that it is important for Talat and his administartion to put in place mechanisms to ensure the non sale of refugee properties, if this does not occur then I have only to conclude that Talat i s neither intersted or genuine aput unification adn his aim is partition, in which case he is fucking his own people over before that may occue as the new generation greek speaking cypriot is not interetsed in the cyprus problem at the same time neither will the new generation turkish speaking cypriot, and the people who miss out an suffer are the people who were in the early adulthood in the 70's.

NO SALE OF REFUGEE PROPERTY, TURKEY OUT OF CYPRUS

[Jerry]

The problem is even if the GCs succeed in settling their differences with the TCs Turkey will insist on keeping some or all of her conquest in the north. Turkey has already bullied the EU into partial submission over the ports access problem, she will only yield to serious pressure from the US and I can't see that happening.

[skipper]

Not going to reply to points 1 & 2 because I dont have time, but regarding

on point 3, there really needs a distinction on what a "settler" is, if you mean people who migrated immediately after '74 then their number are something like 40,000 and the children where both parents are from turkey around 20,000. The vast majority of what is politically called a settler by the GC are workers and students, these people are here temporarily and do not have an automatic right to permenent residency even under the TRNC. Infact even if there was a solution tommorow we'd still need these people, even the most ardent mainland turk hating TC would admit that the north would grind to a standstill if these people disappared in the same way that the south would collapse if the tourists and foreign workers were not present.

again with regards to point 3 and land given to settlers, most of the land given was farming land. Any settler that had been given prime real estate would have sold up and left cyprus long ago, to live "like a king" in whatever obscure village they came from. How many GC's would want to come back to the north to persue a life in farming I dont know, but I'd wager its not a large proportion.

finally, the reason Talat wont stop construction on GC land is that he (and most TCs) believe that if he does the GC's would have no incentive to negotiate as other than the refugee issue this is where there is real pressure being exerted by GC's population to do something. meanwhile the economy of the north would go into immediate recession and there would be no guarrentee that a solution would be negotiated in a quick time frame based on past experiences, so as a poltician Talat would be mad to such a risk.

[Jerry]

Not going to reply to points 1 & 2 because I dont have time, but regarding

on point 3, there really needs a distinction on what a "settler" is, if you mean people who migrated immediately after '74 then their number are something like 40,000 and the children where both parents are from turkey around 20,000. The vast majority of what is politically called a settler by the GC are workers and students, these people are here temporarily and do not have an automatic right to permenent residency even under the TRNC. Infact even if there was a solution tommorow we'd still need these people, even the most ardent mainland turk hating TC would admit that the north would grind to a standstill if these people disappared in the same way that the south would collapse if the tourists and foreign workers were not present.

again with regards to point 3 and land given to settlers, most of the land given was farming land. Any settler that had been given prime real estate would have sold up and left cyprus long ago, to live "like a king" in whatever obscure village they came from. How many GC's would want to come back to the north to persue a life in farming I dont know, but I'd wager its not a large proportion.

finally, the reason Talat wont stop construction on GC land is that he (and most TCs) believe that if he does the GC's would have no incentive to negotiate as other than the refugee issue this is where there is real pressure being exerted by GC's population to do something. meanwhile the economy of the north would go into immediate recession and there would be no guarrentee that a solution would be negotiated in a quick time frame based on past experiences, so as a poltician Talat would be mad to such a risk.

So what will happen when there is no more Greek land to sell, will the economy collapse then? The TCs are living in an artificial false economy propped up by the sale of stolen goods.