Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

One of the stories I use to hear right after the Turkish invasion of 1974 was about how the invading Turks could have been stopped dead in their tracks had we made one military decision or the other differently, or had such and such circumstance been different, such as the Greek coup preoccupation etc.

At the time I didn’t think much of these claims and would swiftly dismiss them as the working class’ softening of the blow but decades later I was to be enlightened thanks to documents previously held from public domain.

Just after the Turkish invasion of 1974 the United States Senate sent a team of investigators to Cyprus to write up a report on the invasion’s consequences which included a section titled “COSTS OF THE INVASION TO TURKEY”. A portion of that section follows…

"Nearly 10% of Turkey's military force is now stationed on Cyprus, and there have been heavy logistical and support requirements. Civilian "technicians" and others have also gone to the island. Moreover, there were considerable losses during the invasion. According to responsible military sources in the field, the performance of Turkey's armed forces during the first phase of the invasion was very poor. Although Turkey apparently employed a basic plan its general staff had drafted and perfected over a period of several years, military observers say there was poor operational planning, inadequate communications, and a near total failure of joint operations among Turkish air, sea, and ground forces.

As a result, through tactical errors Turkey lost an estimated 15 aircraft during the invasion. It sank one of its own destroyers. Casualties were considered light, but included some 300 men killed and another 500 wounded. Had there been any substantial Greek Cypriot forces and tanks in the northern part of the island, casualties undoubtedly would have been considerably higher. One military observer suggested, for example, that because the Turkish airborne assault came at too high an altitude, a better organized and equipped Greek Cypriot army could have easily eliminated an entire Turkish airborne regiment swinging helplessly in the air.”

Regards, GR.

[EUropean666]

well, the invasion could stop if nireas submarind would have attackedon teh first boats but orders from teh junta in athens were clear "help the turks"

however turkey's army like all other asian armies are poor, it is their fate. pray to hallah for better performance.

[pitsilos]

anyone read the clinton book and the conversation between ciller about the imia crisis? worth reading

[observer]

I think that it has always been known that the Turkish invasion was chaotic. In part this was because of the very small time allowed for detailed preparation. Although the report says "Turkey apparently employed a basic plan its general staff had drafted and perfected over a period of several years, military observers say there was poor operational planning, inadequate communications, and a near total failure of joint operations among Turkish air, sea, and ground forces", it is a different thing to go from a basic plan to the detailed plans for each ship to do a certain thing, or a specific army unit to know it has to attack a certain part, prepare for it, and train for it. The chaos that happened tends to undermine GCs who argue that Turkey had always intended to invade Cyprus at the first excuse.

Equally, however, the report indicates that GC forces were in chaos. They too are likely to have had a basic plan to defend the island, but it seems that specific units did not know what they were meant to do, and had not trained for it. There is less excuse in defending when your soldiers know the ground, than for an attacking force who do not know the ground and have only been told where they were going to attack at the last minute. On the GC side, however, there was some chaos because of the coup.

I have also been told (and am the first to admit that I have no evidence so accept it as a second-hand story which you can believe or not believe as you choose) that there were cases of Greek officers leading units leaving very quickly. Why shouldn't they, not their country.

[DT.]

I think that it has always been known that the Turkish invasion was chaotic. In part this was because of the very small time allowed for detailed preparation. Although the report says "Turkey apparently employed a basic plan its general staff had drafted and perfected over a period of several years, military observers say there was poor operational planning, inadequate communications, and a near total failure of joint operations among Turkish air, sea, and ground forces", it is a different thing to go from a basic plan to the detailed plans for each ship to do a certain thing, or a specific army unit to know it has to attack a certain part, prepare for it, and train for it. The chaos that happened tends to undermine GCs who argue that Turkey had always intended to invade Cyprus at the first excuse.

Equally, however, the report indicates that GC forces were in chaos. They too are likely to have had a basic plan to defend the island, but it seems that specific units did not know what they were meant to do, and had not trained for it. There is less excuse in defending when your soldiers know the ground, than for an attacking force who do not know the ground and have only been told where they were going to attack at the last minute. On the GC side, however, there was some chaos because of the coup.

I have also been told (and am the first to admit that I have no evidence so accept it as a second-hand story which you can believe or not believe as you choose) that there were cases of Greek officers leading units leaving very quickly. Why shouldn't they, not their country.

after the treason on the island by the junta, all the ammunition dumos were locked up by the Greek officers and the Cypriot soldiers couldn't get any weapons or ammunition to fight back. Thats not chaos thats a betrayal.

[observer]

DT

"after the treason on the island by the junta, all the ammunition dumos were locked up by the Greek officers and the Cypriot soldiers couldn't get any weapons or ammunition to fight back. Thats not chaos thats a betrayal."

I hadn't heard that one, and I'm sure that there were cases (though with a bit of initiative couldn't someone break down the door or tear the bars out of the windows?). It is not 100% true though, and some GC units did fight well. Just not enough to stop the invasion.

[reportfromcyprus]

One of the stories I use to hear right after the Turkish invasion of 1974 was about how the invading Turks could have been stopped dead in their tracks had we made one military decision or the other differently, or had such and such circumstance been different, such as the Greek coup preoccupation etc.

At the time I didn’t think much of these claims and would swiftly dismiss them as the working class’ softening of the blow but decades later I was to be enlightened thanks to documents previously held from public domain.

Just after the Turkish invasion of 1974 the United States Senate sent a team of investigators to Cyprus to write up a report on the invasion’s consequences which included a section titled “COSTS OF THE INVASION TO TURKEY”. A portion of that section follows…

"Nearly 10% of Turkey's military force is now stationed on Cyprus, and there have been heavy logistical and support requirements. Civilian "technicians" and others have also gone to the island. Moreover, there were considerable losses during the invasion. According to responsible military sources in the field, the performance of Turkey's armed forces during the first phase of the invasion was very poor. Although Turkey apparently employed a basic plan its general staff had drafted and perfected over a period of several years, military observers say there was poor operational planning, inadequate communications, and a near total failure of joint operations among Turkish air, sea, and ground forces.

As a result, through tactical errors Turkey lost an estimated 15 aircraft during the invasion. It sank one of its own destroyers. Casualties were considered light, but included some 300 men killed and another 500 wounded. Had there been any substantial Greek Cypriot forces and tanks in the northern part of the island, casualties undoubtedly would have been considerably higher. One military observer suggested, for example, that because the Turkish airborne assault came at too high an altitude, a better organized and equipped Greek Cypriot army could have easily eliminated an entire Turkish airborne regiment swinging helplessly in the air.”

Regards, GR.

What's your point, that the GC will do better next time round? Give me a break.

Nobody gains from war, well performed or otherwise.

[MR-from-NG]

well, the invasion could stop if nireas submarind would have attackedon teh first boats but orders from teh junta in athens were clear "help the turks"

however turkey's army like all other asian armies are poor, it is their fate. pray to hallah for better performance.

Oh for gods sake. If this, if that. Well if my grandmother had balls shed be my grandfather.

You got your ass kicked from here to kingdom come and you still come up with such garbage. You people need to get a life.

[DT.]

well, the invasion could stop if nireas submarind would have attackedon teh first boats but orders from teh junta in athens were clear "help the turks"

however turkey's army like all other asian armies are poor, it is their fate. pray to hallah for better performance.

Oh for gods sake. If this, if that. Well if my grandmother had balls shed be my grandfather.

You got your ass kicked from here to kingdom come and you still come up with such garbage. You people need to get a life.

well done mrfromng...you guys were better than us. You won fair and square, you managed to kill more of us than we did of you. You won that land due to overpowering force and now have every right to it cause we couldn't fight back well enough...as you say we got our ass kicked from here to kingdom come.

So the only thing thats left now after we had more dead and wounded than you and lost 1/3 of all our homes is to go and get a life now.

[Get Real!]

What's your point, that the GC will do better next time round? Give me a break.

My point is that technically we could have defended our country well, had it not been for the internal mess, from an invasion of hopeless illiterate anatolian peasants.