Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

So let me get this right, we will have 18% land which will include GCs in it? am i right? or GCs will have the freedom to come settle there when they wish? How will determine which 18% of Cyprus you will give us?

What will be the weight of this governor, and will only TCs elect him in the 18% portion of the island?

Will the 1960 constitutions be in place?

So the equal amount of compromise for the above is our rights under the 1960 agreements to be watered down?

How do you propose to get all the TCs into the 18%?

Isnt this just a return to the 1960s agreements with a designated area for TCs which can be overrun by GCs as it will their right to live in any part of Cyprus, the only differnece is our rights under 1960 agreements will be changed not by Akritas but Piratis plan?

[Piratis]

No problem Viewpoint, get the 100% of your rights and give us the 100% of ours.

So you see how upsetting is for you to discuss even half compromise from your rights? Why do you think we should do it then? Because you have big guns and you can force us?

[Piratis]

I mean seriously, I asked you to give up part of the excessive veto rights in return for what you would get, and you called that an "Akritas plan". Imagine how we feel when you demand from us to give up even some of our basic human rights!

I think you got too used in the idea that a "solution" is about you gaining on our loss.

[Pyrpolizer]

So let me get this right, we will have 18% land which will include GCs in it? am i right? or GCs will have the freedom to come settle there when they wish? How will determine which 18% of Cyprus you will give us?

Of course. And we will have the rest which will also have TCs in it. Everybody can settle anywhere they wish. Your chice to chose the 18% you will administer I suggest you pick an area with the highest concentration of population, perhaps from Kyrenia to north Nicosis extending east and west. You can have other areas too, like a cantonal system.
As for running the risk of losing majority, no there is no such risk. Nobody will return, just like no TC will return. But they will keep ownership of their properties and most propably will a)Either invest and TCs run the investment, or B) sell.

Anything more than 18% will make you run for partition. 29% as per Anan Plan was a very good incentive to run for eventual split from the Anan Confederation. 18% not only is fair, but very difficult to run for partition because that part cannot survive independently. Neither the Gcs will run after Enosis because they will lose a huge part of Cyprus too. Very safe I would say

[Pyrpolizer]

Hayde VP think about it and maybe you can change your plans for partition for a change. And then we will all love you.

[Piratis]

Pyrpolizer, even before the referenda Serdar Denctash and others were talking about the model of Czechoslovakia for how the two "federal" states would split. Later they found the model of Serbia-Montenegro.
So yes, that 29% of the Annan plan was a stepping stone for partition, but only after they would have sucked all our money, create a total chaos and send us 3 decades back. At that point we would ourselves be pleading for partition as we would have already signed away all our rights and we would have no other way out of that mess.

So 18% of land and 18% of coast is really important to limit the risk that TCs would intentionally try to create problems for their own benefit.

[miltiades]

Zan , I have always referred to North Cyprus as the occupied part of Cyprus in line with International protocol , including the UN and the EU. That this part of Cyprus is under the occupation of Turkey is an indisputable fact the world over excluding of course the occupiers nation. I have also stated many times that both the T/Cs and the G/Cs are the victims of their respective leadership of the time , as well the victims of incessant manipulation by schools , religious authorities and nationalistic elements. The efforts of our leaders after independence from Britain should have been directed towards building a nation that mirrored the two communities on equal terms each community sharing the new Cypriot identity. What did they do instead , the G/Cs remained committed to an idea that I personally find repulsive , and the T/Cs also committed to an idea that again I find repulsive.Hense , today , the overwhelming majority of G/Cs have seen the light and ENOSIS today means ANATHEMA even to the most ardent supporters of Greek heritage. Cyprus can flourish as an independent republic member of an ever increasing in influence EU , but I see that you and VP are hell bent on division . I have absolutely nothing against you or VP , I DISSAGREE VEHEMENTLY WITH ANY VIEWS THAT SUPPORT THE PERMANENT DIVISON OF OUR ISLAND. Im a passionate Cypriot and one who also understands that there are T/Cs and G/Cs all making up the Cypriot identity. I understand that it is perfectly reasonable , and expected , that the G/Cs will support the Greek team playing against the Turkish team which will have the support of the T/Cs .NOTHING WRONG IN THAT.
What however would be wrong is Cyprus playing either Turkey or Greece and not enjoying the support off all Cypriots.

Please also note , in none of my 2100 plus posts have deviated from my pronounced stand on the Cyprop.
You along with VP and his entire Cypriot department are my compatriots , I will fight for what is correct not for what is to the benefit of the G/Cs or the T/Cs. The continued isolation of the occupied part does not please me one bit. The alternative , ie recognition , I consider anathema that will in the future lead to conflict pain and suffering for our people , because I know that the overwhelming majority of the Cypriots will not accept the annexation of their island to Turkey.The children of today will be manipulated and made to focus on the part of Cyprus that they will always consider occupied by Turkey. They will grow up with hatred in their hearts and this poison will one day spill out to infect all of Cyprus.
We need to unite , we need our voices to be heard , we need to tell our leaders that what we want is unity not division.

In short what you are saying is that you will side with Piratis and kill those of us that stand up for our rights and our way of thinking, when you get the chance. Your rights for a United Cyprus regardless of what that entails are greater than our rights as a people that have been persecuted for over 40 years. Well in that case unless something changes drastically war is imminent and we must do everything we can to ensure that Turkey stays put. It dose make our job easier to know these truths in that we will be fighting against the GC people in general and not just against the fascists as we had to do since the republic was established. Have you seen my latest thread???

Zan , Zan Please , do not post such crap. Where in my posts have you seen anything about killing Cypriots . I'm right to not want part of my country occupied by a foreign power. I'm right in wanting our people to unite. I'm right in not wanting past bitterness and conflict stand in the way of peace and stability for our future Cypriot generations. I'm right in condemning all who want to sell our island either to Turkey or to Greece.
I'm not a traitor by wanting to see a T/C as the president of Cyprus working for the interests of all Cypriots , when this happens all our problems will have been solved.
You want partition , but the overwhelming majority of Cypriots do not agree.

[zan]

Zan , I have always referred to North Cyprus as the occupied part of Cyprus in line with International protocol , including the UN and the EU. That this part of Cyprus is under the occupation of Turkey is an indisputable fact the world over excluding of course the occupiers nation. I have also stated many times that both the T/Cs and the G/Cs are the victims of their respective leadership of the time , as well the victims of incessant manipulation by schools , religious authorities and nationalistic elements. The efforts of our leaders after independence from Britain should have been directed towards building a nation that mirrored the two communities on equal terms each community sharing the new Cypriot identity. What did they do instead , the G/Cs remained committed to an idea that I personally find repulsive , and the T/Cs also committed to an idea that again I find repulsive.Hense , today , the overwhelming majority of G/Cs have seen the light and ENOSIS today means ANATHEMA even to the most ardent supporters of Greek heritage. Cyprus can flourish as an independent republic member of an ever increasing in influence EU , but I see that you and VP are hell bent on division . I have absolutely nothing against you or VP , I DISSAGREE VEHEMENTLY WITH ANY VIEWS THAT SUPPORT THE PERMANENT DIVISON OF OUR ISLAND. Im a passionate Cypriot and one who also understands that there are T/Cs and G/Cs all making up the Cypriot identity. I understand that it is perfectly reasonable , and expected , that the G/Cs will support the Greek team playing against the Turkish team which will have the support of the T/Cs .NOTHING WRONG IN THAT.
What however would be wrong is Cyprus playing either Turkey or Greece and not enjoying the support off all Cypriots.

Please also note , in none of my 2100 plus posts have deviated from my pronounced stand on the Cyprop.
You along with VP and his entire Cypriot department are my compatriots , I will fight for what is correct not for what is to the benefit of the G/Cs or the T/Cs. The continued isolation of the occupied part does not please me one bit. The alternative , ie recognition , I consider anathema that will in the future lead to conflict pain and suffering for our people , because I know that the overwhelming majority of the Cypriots will not accept the annexation of their island to Turkey.The children of today will be manipulated and made to focus on the part of Cyprus that they will always consider occupied by Turkey. They will grow up with hatred in their hearts and this poison will one day spill out to infect all of Cyprus.
We need to unite , we need our voices to be heard , we need to tell our leaders that what we want is unity not division.

In short what you are saying is that you will side with Piratis and kill those of us that stand up for our rights and our way of thinking, when you get the chance. Your rights for a United Cyprus regardless of what that entails are greater than our rights as a people that have been persecuted for over 40 years. Well in that case unless something changes drastically war is imminent and we must do everything we can to ensure that Turkey stays put. It dose make our job easier to know these truths in that we will be fighting against the GC people in general and not just against the fascists as we had to do since the republic was established. Have you seen my latest thread???

Zan , Zan Please , do not post such crap. Where in my posts have you seen anything about killing Cypriots . I'm right to not want part of my country occupied by a foreign power. I'm right in wanting our people to unite. I'm right in not wanting past bitterness and conflict stand in the way of peace and stability for our future Cypriot generations. I'm right in condemning all who want to sell our island either to Turkey or to Greece.
I'm not a traitor by wanting to see a T/C as the president of Cyprus working for the interests of all Cypriots , when this happens all our problems will have been solved.
You want partition , but the overwhelming majority of Cypriots do not agree.

You are right Miltiades in wanting all of that but you are not right in wanting it no matter what. I asked you to condemn Piratis as you condemn VP. Piratis is ten times more dangerous than \VP could ever be and refused to do so. Piratis will do anything to get what he wants. What are your limits. You ask for peace through aggression if you support his kind.

I had the saddest day ever since I started posting on this forum or any other. I felt a weight on my shoulders that has left me bitter today. You were the cause of it because of your single-minded views on the Cyprus problem. I have been arguing so much with my own brother about the way he thinks and I believe now I owe him an apology. Although he says he does not hate the Greeks, he does not trust a single one of you. He told me time and time again that you guys will do any and I mean anything to get what you want. I have argued that he is wrong. We argued so much that we both refrain from doing so now so that we do not fall apart as brothers. You were my last resort on this argument and although my brother does not know about this, your backing of people like Piratis and Kifeas and all those others that are simply not listening to a word we are saying but instead are on this blind quest to get the Greek agenda to the fore, has finally shown me that my brother is right. If he is reading this.....A very big Sorry Bruv.

[miltiades]

ZAN exhibiting his racist views on his fellow Cypriots. What a tragic shame .

""""""I had the saddest day ever since I started posting on this forum or any other. I felt a weight on my shoulders that has left me bitter today. You were the cause of it because of your single-minded views on the Cyprus problem. I have been arguing so much with my own brother about the way he thinks and I believe now I owe him an apology. Although he says he does not hate the Greeks, he does not trust a single one of you. He told me time and time again that you guys will do any and I mean anything to get what you want. I have argued that he is wrong. We argued so much that we both refrain from doing so now so that we do not fall apart as brothers. You were my last resort on this argument and although my brother does not know about this, your backing of people like Piratis and Kifeas and all those others that are simply not listening to a word we are saying but instead are on this blind quest to get the Greek agenda to the fore, has finally shown me that my brother is right. If he is reading this.....A very big Sorry Bruv. """"""

Let me also take you up on what you consider to be my position as far as Piratis's views are concerned.
If Piratis or any one on this forum has visions of waging war against their fellow Cypriots , who they themselves are the victims of circumstances dictated by fanatics , then I will not associate with any such views since they contradict everything that I stand for. I stand for a united Cyprus to be achieved by peaceful means , by mutual respect in an atmosphere of good will and co-operation. I do not share views of those who think that if and when the balance of power changes , conflict will commence amongst our Cypriot people. I stand by a peaceful solution to our Island's problem. Pleas do not ask me to disassociate my self from views that I neither share nor have ever been associated with. I condemn all who post non constructive views likely to inflame and not reconcile.
I hope I have made my self clear and will not respond to ludicrous assumptions.

[Viewpoint]

Im still waiting miltiades, werent you going to provide us with details of how we were going to bring our dispute to any end? and prove once and fo all that your accusations against me are total lies and unfounded.