Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

I have only read the first pages of this thread but now since I noticed my name being mentioned I will give some answers. Better to PM me if you talk about me in discussions I don't participate.

I hope that you are going to afford the same stingent law to Piratis' confession Miltiades.
Piratis wrote:

Who have no shame are those that occupy our country and those traitors that help them. If you thought we would just sit and watch your paid propaganda engine fill in the forum with crap and not react to them then you are mistaken.

Come on Piratis give us some names. Or were you closed down at the last moment. Anger can sometimes give you away.

What "confension" are you talking about and what exactly is the point of highlighting the "we" word? If it was not clear to you, "we" are the people who were fed up with the paid propaganda crap of Fanos. Anything else?

In short what you are saying is that you will side with Piratis and kill those of us that stand up for our rights and our way of thinking, when you get the chance. Your rights for a United Cyprus regardless of what that entails are greater than our rights as a people that have been persecuted for over 40 years. Well in that case unless something changes drastically war is imminent and we must do everything we can to ensure that Turkey stays put. It dose make our job easier to know these truths in that we will be fighting against the GC people in general and not just against the fascists as we had to do since the republic was established. Have you seen my latest thread???

You can have the 100% of your rights. What you can not have is what is not your rights and is on the expense of our rights.
So,
Do we have the right to return to Kerynia, Famagustga, Morfou and all the other places currently under Turkish occupation? YES
Do you have the right to stop even one of us from returning NO

Does Turkey have the right to occupy the north part of Cyprus? NO
Do TCs have the right for a separate country in Cyprus achieved by means of ethnic cleansing? NO
Does Republic of Cyprus have the right to defend its sovereignty? YES

So no, nobody will harm you for standing up for your rights, just be sure to know what your rights are. And no, your rights are not whatever Turkey says, we are not living in the times of the Ottoman empire. Today there is international law, democracy and human rights, and thats where your and my and everybodies rights are.

[Viewpoint]

How far have those laws gotten you Piratis? when will you realize that no one gives a toss about GCs and their rights. You have not progressed 1 inch in 33 years waiting for those rights to kick in. When will you realize that negotiations and compromise are the only way forward?

[Piratis]

How far have those laws gotten you Piratis? when will you realize that no one gives a toss about GCs and their rights. You have not progressed 1 inch in 33 years waiting for those rights to kick in. When will you realize that negotiations and compromise are the only way forward?

The only thing you are willing to negotiate is our capitulation because you believe you "won the war". We have negotiated for years and we know that very well already. Sorry, it will not happen.

Cyprus will be liberated when the balance of power will change. And when (not if) it does, the international law and our rights will be very very useful for the liberation of our country, so don't hope we will sign them away for peanuts in some capitulation agreement.

When you are ready to also make equivalent compromises from your rights as those that you ask from us to do, then come again to talk about negotiations.

[Viewpoint]

How far have those laws gotten you Piratis? when will you realize that no one gives a toss about GCs and their rights. You have not progressed 1 inch in 33 years waiting for those rights to kick in. When will you realize that negotiations and compromise are the only way forward?

The only thing you are willing to negotiate is our capitulation because you believe you "won the war". We have negotiated for years and we know that very well already. Sorry, it will not happen.

Cyprus will be liberated when the balance of power will change. And when (not if) it does, the international law and our rights will be very very useful for the liberation of our country, so don't hope we will sign them away for peanuts in some capitulation agreement.

When you are ready to also make equivalent compromises from your rights as those that you ask from us to do, then come again to talk about negotiations.

Is BBF capitulation?

[Piratis]

How far have those laws gotten you Piratis? when will you realize that no one gives a toss about GCs and their rights. You have not progressed 1 inch in 33 years waiting for those rights to kick in. When will you realize that negotiations and compromise are the only way forward?

The only thing you are willing to negotiate is our capitulation because you believe you "won the war". We have negotiated for years and we know that very well already. Sorry, it will not happen.

Cyprus will be liberated when the balance of power will change. And when (not if) it does, the international law and our rights will be very very useful for the liberation of our country, so don't hope we will sign them away for peanuts in some capitulation agreement.

When you are ready to also make equivalent compromises from your rights as those that you ask from us to do, then come again to talk about negotiations.

Is BBF capitulation?

You asked me if BBF is acceptable just days ago. Here is my answer again:

As long as it is a true a federation as it exists in other federal countries (e.g. USA, Russia etc), the territory of the states is proportional to the population (18%-82%) and TCs make a compromise of equivalent magnitude from their 1960 rights to match this compromise from our side, then yes.

BBF is a proposal and if both sides make mutual compromises of equivalent magnitude from their rights in order to achieve it then why not?

However it seems that a BBF solution acceptable to both sides can not be reached, and therefore what remains is the only legal thing that existed since 1960, the RoC constitution and everybody is obligated to respect that along with the sovereignty of independence of Cyprus. The fact that we are discussing the possibility of changing the constitution and the structure in Cyprus doesn't give the right to anybody to violate international law and human rights of 100s of thousands of people.

[Viewpoint]

What compromise do you expect from the TCs in the same magnitude? The return of land whereby the TC are reduced to 18%? or to accept becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs? Please tell me how you see our role in a BBF?

[Piratis]

First of all I don't want any compromise from TCs. I say let us have the 100% of our rights and the 100% of our land, and you get the 100% of your rights and the 100% of your land.

Now if you insist that we make compromises from our rights then you should also be willing to make compromises from your rights. The 36% of land that you illegally occupy is not your right.

So the question is: Are you willing to make compromises from your rights? If you are not (which I know you are not) then we come to the same conclusion that negotiations for you mean to negotiate our capitulation and it is not about mutual compromises but about the amount of gain you will have on our loss.

So, there are three ways:
1) Everybody gets the 100% of his rights
2) Mutual compromises from those rights are made so nobody wins on the loss of another,

and, if you insist that you have to gain on our loss because you "won the war"

3) We remain enemies and we wait for the next shift of balance of power for the next round

the option "force GCs to sign a capitulation agreement" simply does not exist.

[Viewpoint]

First of all I don't want any compromise from TCs. I say let us have the 100% of our rights and the 100% of our land, and you get the 100% of your rights and the 100% of your land.

Now if you insist that we make compromises from our rights then you should also be willing to make compromises from your rights. The 36% of land that you illegally occupy is not your right.

So the question is: Are you willing to make compromises from your rights? If you are not (which I know you are not) then we come to the same conclusion that negotiations for you mean to negotiate our capitulation and it is not about mutual compromises but about the amount of gain you will have on our loss.

So, there are three ways:
1) Everybody gets the 100% of his rights
2) Mutual compromises from those rights are made so nobody wins on the loss of another,

and, if you insist that you have to gain on our loss because you "won the war"

3) We remain enemies and we wait for the next shift of balance of power for the next round

the option "force GCs to sign a capitulation agreement" simply does not exist.

Get to the nitty gritty what are your proposals? how do you see TCs in a real BBF?

[Pyrpolizer]

Administrating 18% of Cyprus whereas everybody gets his properties back either those lay in the TC Fed state or oin the GC Fed state, and the Central Fed is a real Fed not a confed.

[Piratis]

18% of land were they are the majority and therefore have the voting power to elect the governor that they want, the governor should have more or less the powers that a governor in the USA has since we are talking about Federation.

This is what TCs could get in addition to their rights, in order to have the BBF that they want.

In return they should give up something of equal importance from their rights, e.g. the excessive veto rights that they have according to the 1960 agreements. They can still keep some veto rights, but only for fundamental issues (e.g. changes in constitution etc)

So this I think is a balanced change from the 1960 agreements. You can call it a win-win. In this spirit I would be open for other balanced proposals if you have any.

Of course you are not obligated to accept this or anything else. You always have the right to just demand the 100% of your legal rights, but of course you should accept that we should have the 100% of ours as well.