Nihat Ilhan Speaks Out about Bath Murders
by Viewpoint » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:27 pm
Ho no was it Turkish sperm or TC sperm or GC sperm did they do any DNA testing for all the claimed rape cases?? were these people raped at all, how much bruising was there? why didn't they say no? maybe they are just making it up or did the GC soldiers just have sex with them just to blame the other side... Ah I know they did it to make the Turkish Army look bad.
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by askimwos » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:39 pm
As I said I do not believe that the incidence did not actually happened by GCs. The aricle below from today's Politis newspaper which I translated may shed some light to th events:
Three Witnesses shed light at the incidence of 24 December 1963
"Tasos Markou saved TC captives"
Not only Tasos Markou hadn't had any involvement in the Bath Tub massarcre against the wife and the 3 children of the Turkish officer Nihat Ilhan, but he in fact protected civilian TCs who have been captured on the 24th December 1963. This is revealed by an interview given to Politis newspaper by the 67 year old retired officer Savvas Sieli from Pegia, Pafos. Mr Sielis is the author of the book "Tasos Markou" and "Thiseas" of EOKA A and gives another dimension to the principles of Tasos Markou. The whole issue has created a public upset in the occupied areas as the editor of Africa newspaper, Sener Levent, said after a series of articles in the TC press.
More information about the issue raised regarding Tasos Markou is given in newspaper Kibris (Monday 12.03.2007), in page 8 from the TC journalist Ahmet Tolgay who quoted a statement by an ex-chief of TMT who asked to stay anonymous. Accordind to mr Ahmet Tolgay, the ex-chief of TMT stated that during that the river attack was carried out by 150-160 GCs under the command of a Greek officer under the code name "Terezopoulos" and that the commander of the team of 30 GCs that attacked the turkish neibourhood was the legendary EOKA A member Tasos Markou...
Savvas Sielis
Not only Tasos Markou hadn't had any involvement in the Bath Tub massarcre against the wife and the 3 children of the Turkish officer Nihat Ilhan, but he in fact protected civilian TCs who have been captured on the 24th December 1963. "The bath tub massarcre did not happen in the bathroom! And it was not carried out by Tasos Markou. I was always by the side of Tasos Markou that night and I went everywhere he went that night. After that I was wounded and I was taken to the hospital" Savvas Sielis told Politis that he was later informed about the bath tub incident: "one of the teams that took part in the operation that night entered the house firing their weapons, they pushed a door and found resistance by someone that was behind the door. They then fired at the door and they then left the house. The bodies were propably moved in the bath tub by the Turks in order to take the well known pictures. One thing is for sure though, it was clearly not a cold blood execution" me Sielis said.
Ishan Ali
Savvas Sielis also noted that: "Tasos Markou has absolutely no link with the incidence. In fact he was very strict with his soldiers, especially on issues of mistreating unarmed citizens. That day we captured a lot of prisoners and there wasn't even a nose bleeding. One of the prisoners was the daughter of Ishan Ali who after some time he contacted me and thanked me for helping his daughter. Tasos Markou was a great man and officer, and would never sent his soldiers to places that he wouldn't go himself, he was a man of principles and he would not allow his soldiers to do things that he wouldn't do. Both the unarmed citizens and the prisoners were for him and matter of principles and he wouldn't allow anybody to touch them. Something that most people don't know is that Makarios asked hime to be commander in chief of the Presidential Guard (formed to fight EOKA B) but he refused........"
The phonecall
I asked Mr Sieli what happened to the TC prisoners who were captured that night. "Tasos Markou made sure that nothing bad happend to them" however, because he was wounded and was carried to the hospital he was couldn't say what exactly happened to them. Regarding this issue, yesterday Politis received a call from a 73 year old who during that night he was on guard duty at hotel "Cornaro", however, he was there when Tasos Markou and his men arrived "Nicosia Club" with a group of TC prisoners on the morning of 25 December 1963. The 73 year old man asked not to reveal his identity, however, that he has no objection to mention his codename in EOKA A, "Thiseas" so that people don't presume that he chose to say things anonymously because of anykind of fear. "Tasos Markou brought with him around 200 prisoners, men, women and children. He then called the Epitelio and asked what he sould do with the prisoners. We heart him saying "minister, we finished the operation and I have a lot of prisoners" The minister according to "Thiseas" told him to seperate the men from women, children and the elderly and take the "piss"... Then Tsos Markou with on a furious tone said: "I am a GC officer of Evelpidon School, I don't do such things" He hanged up the phone and through the telephone cursing and shouting. "Thiseas" also mentioned that he was impressed by the reaction of Tasos Markou and that even now he considers hime to be a real man of the ones that you don't meet very often.
Were did they take them?
The question of where the prisoners were taken, was answered by Panos Myrtiotis with whom Politis spoke yesterday. Panos Mirtiotis who wrote the book "Tasos Markou:an idol of greek character" wrote in the section of his book titled "The protector of prisoners": "returning from that operation, captain Markou brought with him a lot of TCs unarmed citizens with the objective of protecting them. Those days there have been a number of executions of GC unarmed citizens and Tasos Markou was worried for revenge counteracts by GCs. for this purpose he personally took responsibility for the absolute safety of the TCs captives. Very enlightening is the personal experience of Mr Michalakis Triantafillides, ex-Attorney General, who had personal experience of those events: " The morning of Christmas of 1963 I was at the house of my uncle Stelios Pavlides on Evagorou Avenue, where today is the Zena Canther Palace. At some point there was a noise comeing from the street. I noticed that the building of the Pantheon cinema which was oposite was being fortified with sandbags and that armed guards were positioned on it.
I went closer to see what exactly was happening, worrying whether the Turks have advanced towards our side and were threatening the neighbourhood with GC population. There I met Tasos Markou, whom I new from before, who was overseeing the fortification and was giving directions. The captain informed me that he was trying to create a safety place for the TCs captives whom he brought with him in order to protect them from revenge attacks. Tasos Markou had the ethos of the real soldier and considered unacceptable the victimisation of unarmed civians. From what I an aware of, Tasos Mrkou personally informed Makarios, who gave the order to take the prisoners at the Kykkos Gymnasium where they would receive health treatment. Moreover, Makarios asked the minister of Justice Stella Souliotis and the Minister of Finance Renos Solomonides to tay close to the TCs and make sure that they are safe and treated well. The next days and after the fightings have subsided it was arranged that the TC prisoners were taken with the help of Red Cross to the TC section of Nicosia"
What happened before
During the night of the operation, Tasos Markou personally called the Command Offices and asked for reinforcements and amunition as Panos Mirtiotos states: "His objective was to clean the mchineguns positions in the area and with a cyclical manouvre to unify Neapolis, Trachonas, Omorfita and Kaimakli, giving some space to the north suberbs to breath. From the Command Offices he was however given the order to stop the operation and return to his base. In the dawn of Christmas day Tasos Markou returned to the "Nicosia Club", obviously disappointed as he disagreed with the decision taken. The then second lieutenant Nikos Varnavides who was serving in the area happened to see him and he remembers the utter dissapointment and anger of the captain for the way that the Command Offices have acted. He remembers that Tasos Markou, expressing his disagreement with the order saying "I shouldn't have called them".
Three Witnesses shed light at the incidence of 24 December 1963
"Tasos Markou saved TC captives"
Not only Tasos Markou hadn't had any involvement in the Bath Tub massarcre against the wife and the 3 children of the Turkish officer Nihat Ilhan, but he in fact protected civilian TCs who have been captured on the 24th December 1963. This is revealed by an interview given to Politis newspaper by the 67 year old retired officer Savvas Sieli from Pegia, Pafos. Mr Sielis is the author of the book "Tasos Markou" and "Thiseas" of EOKA A and gives another dimension to the principles of Tasos Markou. The whole issue has created a public upset in the occupied areas as the editor of Africa newspaper, Sener Levent, said after a series of articles in the TC press.
More information about the issue raised regarding Tasos Markou is given in newspaper Kibris (Monday 12.03.2007), in page 8 from the TC journalist Ahmet Tolgay who quoted a statement by an ex-chief of TMT who asked to stay anonymous. Accordind to mr Ahmet Tolgay, the ex-chief of TMT stated that during that the river attack was carried out by 150-160 GCs under the command of a Greek officer under the code name "Terezopoulos" and that the commander of the team of 30 GCs that attacked the turkish neibourhood was the legendary EOKA A member Tasos Markou...
Savvas Sielis
Not only Tasos Markou hadn't had any involvement in the Bath Tub massarcre against the wife and the 3 children of the Turkish officer Nihat Ilhan, but he in fact protected civilian TCs who have been captured on the 24th December 1963. "The bath tub massarcre did not happen in the bathroom! And it was not carried out by Tasos Markou. I was always by the side of Tasos Markou that night and I went everywhere he went that night. After that I was wounded and I was taken to the hospital" Savvas Sielis told Politis that he was later informed about the bath tub incident: "one of the teams that took part in the operation that night entered the house firing their weapons, they pushed a door and found resistance by someone that was behind the door. They then fired at the door and they then left the house. The bodies were propably moved in the bath tub by the Turks in order to take the well known pictures. One thing is for sure though, it was clearly not a cold blood execution" me Sielis said.
Ishan Ali
Savvas Sielis also noted that: "Tasos Markou has absolutely no link with the incidence. In fact he was very strict with his soldiers, especially on issues of mistreating unarmed citizens. That day we captured a lot of prisoners and there wasn't even a nose bleeding. One of the prisoners was the daughter of Ishan Ali who after some time he contacted me and thanked me for helping his daughter. Tasos Markou was a great man and officer, and would never sent his soldiers to places that he wouldn't go himself, he was a man of principles and he would not allow his soldiers to do things that he wouldn't do. Both the unarmed citizens and the prisoners were for him and matter of principles and he wouldn't allow anybody to touch them. Something that most people don't know is that Makarios asked hime to be commander in chief of the Presidential Guard (formed to fight EOKA B) but he refused........"
The phonecall
I asked Mr Sieli what happened to the TC prisoners who were captured that night. "Tasos Markou made sure that nothing bad happend to them" however, because he was wounded and was carried to the hospital he was couldn't say what exactly happened to them. Regarding this issue, yesterday Politis received a call from a 73 year old who during that night he was on guard duty at hotel "Cornaro", however, he was there when Tasos Markou and his men arrived "Nicosia Club" with a group of TC prisoners on the morning of 25 December 1963. The 73 year old man asked not to reveal his identity, however, that he has no objection to mention his codename in EOKA A, "Thiseas" so that people don't presume that he chose to say things anonymously because of anykind of fear. "Tasos Markou brought with him around 200 prisoners, men, women and children. He then called the Epitelio and asked what he sould do with the prisoners. We heart him saying "minister, we finished the operation and I have a lot of prisoners" The minister according to "Thiseas" told him to seperate the men from women, children and the elderly and take the "piss"... Then Tsos Markou with on a furious tone said: "I am a GC officer of Evelpidon School, I don't do such things" He hanged up the phone and through the telephone cursing and shouting. "Thiseas" also mentioned that he was impressed by the reaction of Tasos Markou and that even now he considers hime to be a real man of the ones that you don't meet very often.
Were did they take them?
The question of where the prisoners were taken, was answered by Panos Myrtiotis with whom Politis spoke yesterday. Panos Mirtiotis who wrote the book "Tasos Markou:an idol of greek character" wrote in the section of his book titled "The protector of prisoners": "returning from that operation, captain Markou brought with him a lot of TCs unarmed citizens with the objective of protecting them. Those days there have been a number of executions of GC unarmed citizens and Tasos Markou was worried for revenge counteracts by GCs. for this purpose he personally took responsibility for the absolute safety of the TCs captives. Very enlightening is the personal experience of Mr Michalakis Triantafillides, ex-Attorney General, who had personal experience of those events: " The morning of Christmas of 1963 I was at the house of my uncle Stelios Pavlides on Evagorou Avenue, where today is the Zena Canther Palace. At some point there was a noise comeing from the street. I noticed that the building of the Pantheon cinema which was oposite was being fortified with sandbags and that armed guards were positioned on it.
I went closer to see what exactly was happening, worrying whether the Turks have advanced towards our side and were threatening the neighbourhood with GC population. There I met Tasos Markou, whom I new from before, who was overseeing the fortification and was giving directions. The captain informed me that he was trying to create a safety place for the TCs captives whom he brought with him in order to protect them from revenge attacks. Tasos Markou had the ethos of the real soldier and considered unacceptable the victimisation of unarmed civians. From what I an aware of, Tasos Mrkou personally informed Makarios, who gave the order to take the prisoners at the Kykkos Gymnasium where they would receive health treatment. Moreover, Makarios asked the minister of Justice Stella Souliotis and the Minister of Finance Renos Solomonides to tay close to the TCs and make sure that they are safe and treated well. The next days and after the fightings have subsided it was arranged that the TC prisoners were taken with the help of Red Cross to the TC section of Nicosia"
What happened before
During the night of the operation, Tasos Markou personally called the Command Offices and asked for reinforcements and amunition as Panos Mirtiotos states: "His objective was to clean the mchineguns positions in the area and with a cyclical manouvre to unify Neapolis, Trachonas, Omorfita and Kaimakli, giving some space to the north suberbs to breath. From the Command Offices he was however given the order to stop the operation and return to his base. In the dawn of Christmas day Tasos Markou returned to the "Nicosia Club", obviously disappointed as he disagreed with the decision taken. The then second lieutenant Nikos Varnavides who was serving in the area happened to see him and he remembers the utter dissapointment and anger of the captain for the way that the Command Offices have acted. He remembers that Tasos Markou, expressing his disagreement with the order saying "I shouldn't have called them".
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by BirKibrisli » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:40 pm
Viewpoint wrote:Ho no was it Turkish sperm or TC sperm or GC sperm did they do any DNA testing for all the claimed rape cases?? were these people raped at all, how much bruising was there? why didn't they say no? maybe they are just making it up or did the GC soldiers just have sex with them just to blame the other side... Ah I know they did it to make the Turkish Army look bad.
You have made your point clear some posts ago,VP.
You don't have to keep harping on it.
It makes you look callous and heartless about other people's pain and suffering...
There are a lot of cloudy aspects to the bath murders,and, it might be a good place to start to challenge the long accepted explanations given by conflicting witness statements. We need to start examining these very painful episodes in our history,if we are to come up something resembling the truth.
I hope this is the beginning of a period of openness and selfcriticism. Which are essential for building trust and understanding...
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by Viewpoint » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:47 pm
Birkibrisli wrote:Viewpoint wrote:Ho no was it Turkish sperm or TC sperm or GC sperm did they do any DNA testing for all the claimed rape cases?? were these people raped at all, how much bruising was there? why didn't they say no? maybe they are just making it up or did the GC soldiers just have sex with them just to blame the other side... Ah I know they did it to make the Turkish Army look bad.
You have made your point clear some posts ago,VP.
You don't have to keep harping on it.
It makes you look callous and heartless about other people's pain and suffering...
There are a lot of cloudy aspects to the bath murders,and, it might be a good place to start to challenge the long accepted explanations given by conflicting witness statements. We need to start examining these very painful episodes in our history,if we are to come up something resembling the truth.
I hope this is the beginning of a period of openness and selfcriticism. Which are essential for building trust and understanding...
Doesnt the same go for this incident? why dont we call in the women that claim they were raped and drag up the stories over and over again to see if we can find out the truth and exactly who was and who wasnt raped was it a Turk or TC or GC. What if we find that 80% of the claims were false and the DNA reveal it was GC sperm, where will it get us?
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by Pyrpolizer » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:55 pm
turkish_cypriot wrote:Yeah we should believe Nihat Ilhan killed his family, the TMT put them in the bath. Then the other man (the surviving witness) shot him self, the little girl and also shot and killed his wife just so it would look like the Greek people did it. I don't know how you can say "there wasn't a good enough witness" when the surviving witness' WIFE ALSO GOT SHOT AND KILLED. How many more times do I have to say this? NOT JUST ILHANS FAMILY, THE SURVIVORS WIFE WAS ALSO KILLED! And you're trying to say that there wasn't a good enough witness and he was lying? About the murder of a mother, her kids, in the incident where he himself was shot and his own wife murdered? On the same night that Greek people held TCs hostage at gunpoint!
I give up!
You are free to believe whatever you want TC. If you want to beileve the man who got wounded you should also believe him when he said "there were people speaking Greek there were others speaking Turkish". The question is:"here the hell he heard people speaking both languages"? Whoever did the murder in the house must have been of ONE ethicity only.
My personal opinion and i repeat PERSONAL is that the members of Inhan family were killed SEPARATELY. Nobody was having dinner with them. One dead woman from the neighbourhood and some others who were wounded ELSEWHERE (obviously from idle bullets-not targeted ones) were used as false witnesses. Perhaps even themselves believed it was the Greeks who must have done it.
The members of the Inhal family were TARGETED and shot dead at blank point. Their wounds were totally different from the members of Inhal family.
The question is who would have such a motive to eradicate the Inhal family and who actually PERFORMED this attrocity?
In case you have a definite answer to this question then tell me, I am all ears.
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by BirKibrisli » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:11 pm
There is one other interesting bit of information which has not been mentioned here. Major Ilhan said that he was informed of the killings 4 days later at the Turkish Embassy.He said that TC gunmen came in soon after he heard the news with a GC couple.The woman was carrying a baby in her arms and she was also heavily pregnant.The TC gunmen gave Mr Ilhan a pistol and said "Go on and kill these GCs to avenge your family!".According to Mr Ilhan he refused saying "I am a doctor and a soldier,not a murderer".He said he shielded the GCs and made sure they were safely delivered to the Bekiroglu Hospital for the woman to give birth.If this episode is true,and the GC couple survived as implied,they should be able to recall the events.Aren't there any investigative journalists in Cyprus? Why aren't they doing their jobs??? 
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by askimwos » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:14 pm
VP if questions are not asked the the truth is never revealed. This is a rumour that has been going on among the TC community as well so people need to find out. If you cared enough to read the article that I translated and posted in the previous page of this thread then you would have noticed that the people that carried out the operations that night say that it is possible that the family may have been killed by GCs who entered the house as in at least a case some fired on locked doors. Here is a GC that took the time to translate that long article that may shed some light to the incident. There are a number of GCs that have said that the bath tub incidence is not even close to the massarcre that happened in Tohni by EOKA B thugs and you choose to highlight the fact that some GCs and TCs have some reservations about what really happened that night.
I am not surprised that in your effort to promote your propaganda about GCs denying everything and therefore cannot be trusted you selectively choose to neglect the comments made by GCs about Tohni and the official apology of the president of the RoC parliament towards TCs about the events of 1963-68.
Could you tell me just one time that the TC leadership have officialy accepted that TMT has committed similar attrocities against GCs and apologised on behalf of the TC community? Well I don't think that the TC elite have the balls to accept such a thing as they very well know that they will find themselves out of office or even killed by some "angry" individual in the same way that Kutlu Atali and so many others have been executed in the past.
I also believe that no matter what GCs do, no matter how many apologies are given and no matter how constructive they may be towards reconciliation YOU will find a way, by selectively choosing parts of what is said by even just one GC, to promote your agenda of hatred and partition.
Welcome back Vp...but be prepared to have people exposing your tactics...
I am not surprised that in your effort to promote your propaganda about GCs denying everything and therefore cannot be trusted you selectively choose to neglect the comments made by GCs about Tohni and the official apology of the president of the RoC parliament towards TCs about the events of 1963-68.
Could you tell me just one time that the TC leadership have officialy accepted that TMT has committed similar attrocities against GCs and apologised on behalf of the TC community? Well I don't think that the TC elite have the balls to accept such a thing as they very well know that they will find themselves out of office or even killed by some "angry" individual in the same way that Kutlu Atali and so many others have been executed in the past.
I also believe that no matter what GCs do, no matter how many apologies are given and no matter how constructive they may be towards reconciliation YOU will find a way, by selectively choosing parts of what is said by even just one GC, to promote your agenda of hatred and partition.
Welcome back Vp...but be prepared to have people exposing your tactics...
Last edited by askimwos on Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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