Cyprus-Forum.com

[Alexios]

Thank you Bir for remaining sane in all this.
Certainly the bath murders case has a lot of grey aspects in it. Costas Yennaris, a G/C journalist who investigated the case in some depth was on radio this morning following the article in Politis newspaper yesterday by Sener Levent, according to which, a former TMT Officer (who chose to remain unnamed) stated that the murders were carried out by Tassos Markou men, was told by Omer Sami Cosar himself that the bodies were "arranged" in the bath tub so as to give a more horrific appearence to the photos taken. Denktash reacted to this information when Yennaris published it threatening to sue him, but for some reason he did not.Instead, according to Yennaris, Denktash and his circle accused Cosar as an unstable drunkard who lost the sense of reality.The man is dead so we ll never really know...
As for Tasos Markou, yes he is a legendary original EOKA member, who in 1963 was an army captain.Those who knew him, describe him as a man of the highest moral standing.In a book written about him , the author, who was also on today's radio program,read extracts from his book quoting one of Markou's men describing the Captains's last instructions to them before attacking the T/C forces in Dec.1963. According to the man Markou's last instructions were that any man behaving inapproprietly to T/C women or children would be executed by himself. Also in the book, the author quotes Michalis Triantafyllides, the late Attorney General of the Republic. According to Trantafillides,one day during that period, he saw Markou supervising the reinforcment with sand bags of a Cinema house near his house in the Centre of Nicosia.He asked why this was done so as the Cinema was quite far away from where fighting was taking place and he was told that Markou wanted to use the Cinema as a safe place for T/C civilians who were taken hostage.Surely some of those people are alive today and could testify to the above, how they were treated etc.It is important to note that the book was published as far back as 1996.
Back to the bath tub case, i am personally convinced that something fishy went on.The woman and her kids were shot in the house probably in the bathroom where they hid. I find it strange if they fell lined up in the tub itself the way the photo shows them.As a father, i cannot accept Ilhan's amock theory.
In the end of the day, based on the fact that no other T/C civilians were killed during that horrific day, i can only guess that the 4 were killed as G/C forces entered the house shooting indescriminately.Later, the bodies were arranged in the tub and photographed to be used for obvious purposes.It was a horrific act but keeping the right proportions in mind really, we must admit that it is nowhere near as horrific and barbarous as other murders carried out by EOKA B thugs, especially the cold blooded execution of 80 or so T/C men in Tochni village carried out by a group of cowards. I would prefer an investigation to find out who these murderes walking free amongst us today are, a group of criminals who went around terrorizing unarmed T/C civilians and G/C leftists whilst people like Tasos Markou fought on unequal terms with the Turkish army in the front line.

PS: The radio program mentioned above was the daily nationalistic routine by Lazaros Mavros on Sigma radio every morning.Notwithstanding what his guests said about the bath tub case, he used the whole article by Levent to twist everything around so that at the end of the program the average G/C would be convinced that Ilhan murdered his own family.The power of the media including that of a skilled photographer......

[zan]

Pyro wrote:

NB. But hey forget 7, Zan's motther was also having guests at night when he was 4.

Did you read Birs comments. Did you read any comments. You really are a numbnuts.


Maybe the bodies were turned so hat faces could be seen. Maybe the photographer did as they nearly always do. One of the things that I always remember from my amateur photographic days the sentence I read. Good pictures do not happen they are made. When I was taken into that house there was blood on the floor and bits of human flesh on floors, walls and ceilings. If they were shot elsewhere, where did all that come from. What about my machine-gun comment. The TCs did not have machine guns and that is a fact. The rest is just rubbish. Why did Denktash take a photographer there. What a stupid question. Why are any pictures taken in war from both sides. Those comments are the most naive I have ever heard. Cypriots did not kill those people, Greek murderers did. All evidence of what was going on that night and the sound of gunfire and people screaming and running shows that. The bath must have been seen as a safe place to hide because more than just my family did exactly the same thing. Can any of you put two and two together. Stop thinking in today’s terms and think about what it was like then.

[Alexios]

It seems some other members posted similar lines as i was writing the above.I would beg you to respect the whole situation and keep things like wives cheating on their husbands etc out of this, even if you speak in zest....

[Pyrpolizer]

FURTHERMORE:

We all know how the events of bloody Christmas started. They DID NOT start from the house of the Turkish doctor. They then spread to massive gunfiring and fighting among groups. For any gunman or group of gunmen to just pick up a civilians house and get in to murder people, when the actual fighting was in the streets is beyond comprehension.

[Viewpoint]

Man this thread is unbelievable a clear sign of denial and excuse mechanism to block out what really happened, really I have lsot the little faith I had in GCs to see things for what they really are, they have put forward pathetic excuse after excuse to near enough justify these horrendous deaths, man you people have no respect for anyone but your own.

[Alexios]

Man this thread is unbelievable a clear sign of denial and excuse mechanism to block out what really happened, really I have lsot the little faith I had in GCs to see things for what they really are, they have put forward pathetic excuse after excuse to near enough justify these horrendous deaths, man you people have no respect for anyone but your own.

Viewpoint, i hope you understand that there is a difference between the details of what actually happened on some occasions and the way such events are portrayed and used by each side.True some people will deny everything, but those who accept and recognize that such events took place, also have the right to know exactly what happened.We should not let the propaganda machine of each side guide our logic.So yes, we should question the way some things are flashed infront of our faces.As a younger man, for years i thought the men in Tochni died during intercommunal fighting in that village for example.Thats how i vaguely heard it.It was not until much later that i discovered the truth.The same way you should consider that maybe, just maybe, the bath tub murders have a lot hidden behind them that what you heard of for years.

[Viewpoint]

Man this thread is unbelievable a clear sign of denial and excuse mechanism to block out what really happened, really I have lsot the little faith I had in GCs to see things for what they really are, they have put forward pathetic excuse after excuse to near enough justify these horrendous deaths, man you people have no respect for anyone but your own.

Viewpoint, i hope you understand that there is a difference between the details of what actually happened on some occasions and the way such events are portrayed and used by each side.True some people will deny everything, but those who accept and recognize that such events took place, also have the right to know exactly what happened.We should not let the propaganda machine of each side guide our logic.So yes, we should question the way some things are flashed infront of our faces.As a younger man, for years i thought the men in Tochni died during intercommunal fighting in that village for example.Thats how i vaguely heard it.It was not until much later that i discovered the truth.The same way you should consider that maybe, just maybe, the bath tub murders have a lot hidden behind them that what you heard of for years.

Does it really make a difference in the whole scheme of things? they were very bad times and terrible acts of violence were instigated by both sides, whats the point of trying to block or excuse certain acts which clearly point to the other side, the damage has been done trying to brush it aside or make excuses imo just perpetuates the horrendous act and brings back memories of why we should not trust each other as that wife and those children could be ours if we risk throwing them into a unity where people display a mentality that they cannot reconcile by accepting their past actions.

[Alexios]

Man this thread is unbelievable a clear sign of denial and excuse mechanism to block out what really happened, really I have lsot the little faith I had in GCs to see things for what they really are, they have put forward pathetic excuse after excuse to near enough justify these horrendous deaths, man you people have no respect for anyone but your own.

Viewpoint, i hope you understand that there is a difference between the details of what actually happened on some occasions and the way such events are portrayed and used by each side.True some people will deny everything, but those who accept and recognize that such events took place, also have the right to know exactly what happened.We should not let the propaganda machine of each side guide our logic.So yes, we should question the way some things are flashed infront of our faces.As a younger man, for years i thought the men in Tochni died during intercommunal fighting in that village for example.Thats how i vaguely heard it.It was not until much later that i discovered the truth.The same way you should consider that maybe, just maybe, the bath tub murders have a lot hidden behind them that what you heard of for years.

Does it really make a difference in the whole scheme of things? they were very bad times and terrible acts of violence were instigated by both sides, whats the point of trying to block or excuse certain acts which clearly point to the other side, the damage has been done trying to brush it aside or make excuses imo just perpetuates the horrendous act and brings back memories of why we should not trust each other as that wife and those children could be ours if we risk throwing them into a unity where people display a mentality that they cannot reconcile by accepting their past actions.

I agree. What i was trying to say is that, those of us who are willing to fight the type of mentality you are talking about, also have the right and the duty to know the events as they really happened.Without passion and without fear.If there are any sort of excuses let us hear them.You know, immediately after the Turkish army heard about the Tochni murders, they picked up an equal number of G/C men held hostage at the "Pavlides garage" a place where prisoners were held and executed them.It was still an act of barbarism but atleast we now know the excuse.....As for not trusting each other, we will never do until the absolute truth on each and every case shines...

[Viewpoint]

Man this thread is unbelievable a clear sign of denial and excuse mechanism to block out what really happened, really I have lsot the little faith I had in GCs to see things for what they really are, they have put forward pathetic excuse after excuse to near enough justify these horrendous deaths, man you people have no respect for anyone but your own.

Viewpoint, i hope you understand that there is a difference between the details of what actually happened on some occasions and the way such events are portrayed and used by each side.True some people will deny everything, but those who accept and recognize that such events took place, also have the right to know exactly what happened.We should not let the propaganda machine of each side guide our logic.So yes, we should question the way some things are flashed infront of our faces.As a younger man, for years i thought the men in Tochni died during intercommunal fighting in that village for example.Thats how i vaguely heard it.It was not until much later that i discovered the truth.The same way you should consider that maybe, just maybe, the bath tub murders have a lot hidden behind them that what you heard of for years.

Does it really make a difference in the whole scheme of things? they were very bad times and terrible acts of violence were instigated by both sides, whats the point of trying to block or excuse certain acts which clearly point to the other side, the damage has been done trying to brush it aside or make excuses imo just perpetuates the horrendous act and brings back memories of why we should not trust each other as that wife and those children could be ours if we risk throwing them into a unity where people display a mentality that they cannot reconcile by accepting their past actions.

I agree. What i was trying to say is that, those of us who are willing to fight the type of mentality you are talking about, also have the right and the duty to know the events as they really happened.Without passion and without fear.If there are any sort of excuses let us hear them.You know, immediately after the Turkish army heard about the Tochni murders, they picked up an equal number of G/C men held hostage at the "Pavlides garage" a place where prisoners were held and executed them.It was still an act of barbarism but atleast we now know the excuse.....As for not trusting each other, we will never do until the absolute truth on each and every case shines...

Or we realize that those people cannot be trusted under any circumstancies, understanding why people turn into animals during times of war will not bring you and I closer together. It makes me sick those people should never have been executed and there is no excuse knowing why they did it doesnt make it right.

[Pyrpolizer]

Man this thread is unbelievable a clear sign of denial and excuse mechanism to block out what really happened, really I have lsot the little faith I had in GCs to see things for what they really are, they have put forward pathetic excuse after excuse to near enough justify these horrendous deaths, man you people have no respect for anyone but your own.

The respect we receive from you doesn't count.