Cyprus-Forum.com

[polis]

Polis you are really getting me mad over here! Do you really believe the Greek version of events which claim that Nihal Ilhan killed his own family in a "state of amock" and that Denktas then put them in the bath and said "These dead are usefull to us, through them, our voice will be heard around the world".

What about the witness whos own wife also got shot and killed, do you think he LIED about the death of his OWN WIFE to aid Denktas and his agenda?

What about the little child that survived? Has she been pretending to have a limp all her life for Denktas too?

So hang on what you're saying is that Nihat Ilhan killed his wife and kids, and the other witness who lost his wife in the incident killed his wife too? You stupid ignorant man!

No you moron. What I am saying is that you have to be a complete idiot to actually believe the TMT version of events.

In fact your patrons are so secure with their story, that they had to fly in Ilhan just to intimidate those who question the story into silence.

You're the moron mate. You can't even accept that GCs killed these people and you find it better to just dissmiss it in anyway you can then to just say it was wrong and a fault of the GCs.

As for Mr Ilhan, those who question the story are claiming HE KILLED HIS FAMILY! If that were you wouldn't you speak up??? It's not the TMT's version of events, its the witness' story, he was there, his wife got killed also. You too have obviously been infected with the propaganda you're so quick to accuse the TCs of suffering from.

Nonsense. Those people who question the story are saying that no killings of civilians were carried out by the Greek Cypriots in the particular operation and therefore the Greek Cypriots cannot be the perpertrators of the killing, plain and simple. Ilhan was flown in by your regime to intimidate all those in your community that voice their doubts as to how the killing occured into silence.

[T_C]

So how did the witness get shot? How did his wife die? How did they get their gunshot wounds? Why is the woman who was then the little girl limping today?

I've seen Greek sites that claim Nihat Ilhan killed his own family so it is not nonsense that those who question the story are saying he killed them. You think Nihat Ilhan is going to desecrate his families death to come and spread lies for other peoples gains? Please polis! And don't try and tell me that an operation using weapons and holding people hostage can't be responsible for the murders!

[polis]

So how did the witness get shot? How did his wife die? How did they get their gunshot wounds? Why is the woman who was then the little girl limping today?

I've seen Greek sites that claim Nihat Ilhan killed his own family so it is not nonsense that those who question the story are saying he killed them. You think Nihat Ilhan is going to desecrate his families death to come and spread lies for other peoples gains? Please polis! And don't try and tell me that an operation using weapons and holding people hostage can't be responsible for the murders!

Those who carried out the operation were no murderers and they did not kill Mrs Ilhan and her children. We may not know who the actual perpetrators of the killings were, but it certainly was not the Greek Cypriot men who carried out the particular operation. As for the story of the alleged eye witness, you really need to be blind not to realise that he is lying.

Good night.

[T_C]

you really need to be blind not to realise that he is lying.

Good night.

HOW and WHYwould he Polis!?!?!?!?!?!??

Why is he lying when his wife was also murdered????. Take your own advice and "read the story!". It wasn't just Nihat Ilhans family that died, the same witness' wife was also murdered so what is he lying about?

Why, you would even try to argue about this is beyond me!

Goonight all the same anyways. Though are you sure you're going to be able to sleep?

[BirKibrisli]

This is a very sensitive and emotive issue,so please lets be a bit careful about what we say,and how we say it...

Pyro...My guess is that those people were not having dinner at MRS Ilhan's house.They had gone there thinking they would be safer there,because it was the house of a serving Turkish Army officer. Kumsal area was not really safe for the TCs as it was not easily defendable.

Both EOKA and TMT terrorists were capable of doing this,as they proved elsewhere. It is easier to understand why the EOKA men would do it.It is harder to imagine TMT would do it just to get the Turkish contingent involved or to force Turkey to invade. Because that would've been the only motivation for the TCs.

But there are many unanwered questions.One of them is why no other photos of the crime scene has been released all this time given that we know a TMT photographer was sent in to take pictures after this photo was taken by a shadowy Turkish journalist (from the mainland) named Omer Sami Cosar,now dead. This person was known to be Denktas' hatchet man (in journalism sense,not a hitman sense) and was employed for years later in some capacity or other by Denktas. It is now almost certain that this guy,Cosar,was the person who put the bodies of Mrs Ilhan and her children in the bath and arranged it that way before he took the original first photo. It is also not arguable that they were killed outside the bath. This guy hold the key to all this,but took his secrets to the grave apparently...

But no matter if it was a TC or a GC who did this,it was a Cypriot and another human being. This has diminished all of us as Cypriots and as human beings.Lets stop this blame game and meditate on this fact: our homeland has produced one or more people who were capable of doing such a barbaric act...We should all hang our head in shame.And we should all vow to do whatever is in our capacity to make sure such a clamity would never happen in our homeland,by one of us...

Never again...

[Viewpoint]

polis

Those who carried out the operation were no murderers and they did not kill Mrs Ilhan and her children. We may not know who the actual perpetrators of the killings were, but it certainly was not the Greek Cypriot men who carried out the particular operation. As for the story of the alleged eye witness, you really need to be blind not to realise that he is lying.

You are mentally deranged and are probably connected to these hideous murders in some way, eye witnesses and deaths are telling you that this was a GC attack and you still deny it.

Did you know that no GC woman was raped in 1974 and that it was GC soldiers sowing their own seed so as to make the Turkish soldiers look bad. You shot your own people and scared them to leave their homes just to put us in a bad light against the rest of the world.

This is on a par with what you are saying and you should be ashamed of yourself as a human being, this must be very difficult for you to comprehend that GC acted like animals in those times and that this is just one example of their actions, we are all to blame as we to did terrible things back then but your ignorant stance just rubs salt into the wound which by the looks of it will never heal. You need to do some soul searching and reconcile your beliefs for as long as stupid people like you exist these poor innocent souls will never rest.

[askimwos]

This is a very sensitive and emotive issue,so please lets be a bit careful about what we say,and how we say it...

Pyro...My guess is that those people were not having dinner at MRS Ilhan's house.They had gone there thinking they would be safer there,because it was the house of a serving Turkish Army officer. Kumsal area was not really safe for the TCs as it was not easily defendable.

Both EOKA and TMT terrorists were capable of doing this,as they proved elsewhere. It is easier to understand why the EOKA men would do it.It is harder to imagine TMT would do it just to get the Turkish contingent involved or to force Turkey to invade. Because that would've been the only motivation for the TCs.

But there are many unanwered questions.One of them is why no other photos of the crime scene has been released all this time given that we know a TMT photographer was sent in to take pictures after this photo was taken by a shadowy Turkish journalist (from the mainland) named Omer Sami Cosar,now dead. This person was known to be Denktas' hatchet man (in journalism sense,not a hitman sense) and was employed for years later in some capacity or other by Denktas. It is now almost certain that this guy,Cosar,was the person who put the bodies of Mrs Ilhan and her children in the bath and arranged it that way before he took the original first photo. It is also not arguable that they were killed outside the bath. This guy hold the key to all this,but took his secrets to the grave apparently...

But no matter if it was a TC or a GC who did this,it was a Cypriot and another human being. This has diminished all of us as Cypriots and as human beings.Lets stop this blame game and meditate on this fact: our homeland has produced one or more people who were capable of doing such a barbaric act...We should all hang our head in shame.And we should all vow to do whatever is in our capacity to make sure such a clamity would never happen in our homeland,by one of us...

Never again...

This morning on my way to work I was listening to the radio and there was a live interview with Costas Genaris, a well respected for his impartiality GC journalist who has in the past revealed atrocities committed both by GC and TC extremists of EOKA B and TMT. Costas Genaris is well repected both in Cyprus as well as in Greece and Turkey.

Costas Genaris is the journalist that in one of his books revealed a dark side of the bath tub incidence by publishing an interview with Mr Omer Sami Cosar, the photographer that took the picture that has already been posted in this thread. In that interview Mr Omer told Costas Genaris that some TMT guys took him to the place and after arranging the bodys in a way that it would make it more dramatic aand taking pictures of the scene the TMT guys took the camera and the film and after telling him to keep silence about what he has seen they sent him away. At this interview Mr Omer is claimed to have raised the issue about the TC family being murdered on the orders of Mr Ilhan, however, it fails to explain why.

Costas Genaris also said that it was Mr Omer Sami Cosar who approached him and gave him the interview himself during a trip to Athens. He also said that Mr Dektash after the publication of the interview claimed that such a person (Omer Sami Cosar) never existed only to remove this claim once Costas Genaris published the list of TC journalists that are members of the international association of journalists and Mr Omer Sami Cosar's name was in. Then Dektash went on to say that the photographer was more or less insane and that he was mentally ill.

When asked by the person who was inteviewing him about whether he believed that Mr Ilhan himself committed the murders, Costas Genaris said that in the past he had interviewed a number of people regarding the incident, both TCs and GCs and that there a few that believed this version of the story. He said that he cannot be 100% sure but went on to say that even if this is true, there are still a number of other atrocities, even worse than this one, committed by both sides that have not seen such a publicity. He also said that the timing of this incidence itself is a bit strange because at the time the TMT was trying to get the turkish contigent out of their barracks in order to escalate the fighting and get Turkey involved. He also questioned the rumors that seen the light of publicity about the attrocities committed by Tasos Markou and said that this cannot have happened since Tasos Markou even during the invation when his soldiers arrested 4 turkish and TC soldiers he made sure that nobody touched even a single hair from their head. He also said that this is the 4th claim by TMT, in the past they claimed that Lyssarides men committed the crime as well as other groups.

He also said that a couple of days ago he met Mr Ilhan himself in the occupied areas in order to interview him and he was amazed by how emotionless this guy was even after returning to the place where his whole family was murdered after 40 years. He said that Mr Ilhan asked him to remove the claim from his book but mr Generis told him that this cannot be done as this not his claim but what mr Omer Sami Cosar told him face to face in an interview.

Costas Genaris also questioned the timing of Mr Ilhan's visit after 40 or so years and revealed that he was invited by a turkish (or TC) tv channel that is well known about its extremist views at a time that the story about the 5 year old missing boy was out in the press in Turkey.

He concluded that atrocities of even worst nature have been committed by both EOKA B and TMT as well as the Turkish army during the invation that have not been expoited by the propaganda machines of both communities. The real objective he said is to reveal the truth about these attrocities so that people from both communities will know what exactly happened in order to reach catharsis and never allow these things to happen again.

[Pyrpolizer]

Soon after the establishment of the Cyprus Republic the Greek Cypriots sought to control the Turkish municipalities and establish domination over the Turkish Cypriots, which of course was neither in the letter nor the spirit of the Treaty. This attempt culminated in the widespread Greek onslaught on Turks in 1963. One of the first to be attacked was a Turkish home in Nicosia, where the Greeks brutally murdered a Turkish Army doctor's wife and three little children, and dumped them in a bath-tub



Turkish Cypriot daily AFRIKA newspaper (28.02.07) reports in its first page that there is new information on the issue of the bathroom massacre incident. (TR. Note: The incident took place in 1963, where a Turkish Cypriot family was found dead in the bathroom of its house. The Turkish Cypriot side supports that the family was killed by Greek Cypriot guerrillas). AFRIKAs columnist Sener Levent reports, inter alia, in his daily Column Point of View that there is the need to clarify this issue. Mr Levent goes on and writes that the paper received two more pieces of information on this issue yesterday: The first one is related to Hasan Kudum who was hurt during the bathroom massacre incident but he did not lose his life. Asked by his friends if those who came to kill them spoke between them Greek or Turkish, Hasan Kudum stated: There were persons who spoke Greek and there were persons who spoke Turkish. The second information is related to a person who was known under the name Bozkurt (Grey wolf) and later it was found out that his real name was Kenan Coskun. Nihat Ilhan, whose wife and three children were killed in the incident, went to Kenan Coskun and asked him: Has the organisation killed my family in order to secure the intervention of Turkey in the island?. The answer given by Kenan Coskun and bothered Nihat Ilhan was the following: Go and take revenge. He did not tell him from where to take revenge, writes Sener Levent.
(CS)

" …I was allowed to move through the whole besieged Turkish sector. I was taken to the Kumsal district and trod over shattered glass into a green and white house with orange trees in the garden, and an ownerless black and white cat wandering around. The bathroom of this house was a blood-soaked shambles with a woman and three small boys lying dead huddled together in the bath and in an adjoining room another dead woman. My guide said this second woman and her children were the family of a Turkish major and were all shot by Greek Cypriots. Wherever I looked in the Turkish sector there were the stark and tragic signs familiar to any town, which has endured civil war.
Sandbags and sentry positions, haggard men with guns whose faces behind the stubble of beard show nothing but fatigue

[Pyrpolizer]

1)A house in the Turkish sector.[/b] full of fortifications around.
2)A witness (???) who presumably heard both [b]Greek and Turkish voices
3)The very first attack
4)An answer indicating the organisation did it.
5)Where from all those people only those having the surname inhal were killed, and the rest wounded.
6)Where the gunmen did everything hasty, but... in the end they got enough time to pack the bodies nice and tidy in the bathtab one one top of the other.
7)Where there were so many guests at night time and the husband was away.

NB. But hey forget 7, Zan's motther was also having guests at night when he was 4. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Pyrpolizer]

Why would the TCs need another victim?
Nobody needded another victim.
But during times of war, there comes the best opportunity to clear some accounts, and claim the victims were killed by the enemy. If that would serve the "national cause" so the better.

You owe a lot of money to someone and want to get rid of him? Kill him during the war.
You were in jail because of someone? Kill him during the war?
Your wife is cheating on you and you don't know how to get rid of her? Kill her in case of war.
You want to take revenge for something? kill him or his family in case of war.